resolving a wandering front end

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  • resolving a wandering front end
  • Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    A few things to try…

    1. slam the stem to get the bar closer to where it was before
    2. get a flat bar
    3. revert to 120mm, that’s all you need
    4. get a longer frame, it’s definitely too small for you

    amedias
    Member

    I’m 6′

    [quote]on a medium[/quote]

    with 140mm travel

    [quote]with a 50mm stem[/quote]

    I fear that ^ may be a large part of the problem…

    To stop wandering from end you need to be consciously putting more weight forward, on a short frame (for you) and a with a short stem I imagine you’re going to struggle without adopting the ‘praying mantis’ climbing position, which might be effective is hard to maintain for long climbs

    * for ref, I’m 5’7 (with short legs) and ride a small Soul, with a deeply unfashionable 70 or 90mm stem (depending on build), I could easily ride a medium if it weren’t for dropper/seatube/leg length incompatibilities

    Premier Icon theotherjonv
    Subscriber

    small differences can be quite profound, depends how bad the wanderyness is.

    Maybe 10-20mm on the stem , particularly as you are on a small size for your reach (probably)

    Don’t also discount technique. One tool I use is the grip on the bars. With thumbs under the bars, the elbows tend to be higher and out; switch your thumbs so you’re holding the bars like hanging off a climbing frame with fingers and thumb over the top. The elbows drop and come in closer to the body (try it now, just sat there) and then as you pull with your arms to counter the effort from your legs you tend to pull down and back towards your core rather than up towards your chest.

    Don’t believe it? Try it, before you poo-poo it, might be just enough change to make the difference.

    Premier Icon jam bo
    Subscriber

    whats the seattube angle like. if its a small frame with a long post it’ll be putting you way back over the back wheel.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    drop your wrists below the bars – pulls your weight forward.

    Also shift your weight to the nose of the saddle – same result.

    Or standup like a singlespeeder and move your weight around to balance traction and front end weight.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    FWIW I’m 5ft 7in on a large Cotic with a 60mm stem.

    There’s only just enough reach to the bars, I couldn’t live with it any shorter.

    Blackflag
    Member

    Oh bugger, thats what i feared. Well as its a second bike (Codeine 29r being the main one) im not cash rich or inclined to swap out the frame or forks. and i fear a longer stem will make it less rad on the downs. will try slamming the stem but that may be just pi$$ing in the wind eh?

    Blackflag
    Member

    in terms of technique i do give myself an anal probe with the saddle and pull inwards on the bars when climbing. But i do have a lot of seatpost showing and thats putting a lot of weight over the rear even with the postate exam.

    Got access to wider bars and/or a longer stem?

    Blackflag
    Member

    Would longer stem be more effective than slamming the existing stem?

    Blackflag
    Member

    Sorry all – stem is 65mm

    Plug in some figures and see what happens trying a different stem and simply flipping the existing. 😉

    http://yojimg.net/bike/web_tools/stem.php

    Premier Icon dangeourbrain
    Subscriber

    and i fear a longer stem will make it less rad on the downs.

    If you’re downs largely consist of Car park posturing, possibly. In practice you’ll not likely find it adversely effect anything but cachet (obviously don’t go sticking a 150mm stem or anything daft on but 10 or 15mm goes a long way)

    [Edit] but yeah a medium is bloody small, will be great fun and whippable but it’ll need riding like a bmx [/edit]

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber
    Blackflag
    Member

    “Car park posturing” ha ha. If i did that it wouldnt be on a 26″ bike.

    But i have been over the bars a few too many times so generally a bit nervous about being over the front on rocky descents.

    Premier Icon dangeourbrain
    Subscriber

    Testicle clamps for a field radio? Don’t think that’s done these days (or would help) wwaswas.

    Slam the stem (you don’t need to cut the steerer so nothing to lose trying this).
    Longer stem, negative rise.
    Lower rise bars.
    20% sag is pretty firm – try them at 30% (can you add tokens to these to make them ramp up more if you’re then bottoming them out?)

    Going over the bars has less to do with the height of the front end and more to do with your weight distribution – drop your ankles and wrists when you’re going downhill. Try rotating the brake levers upwards (so they’re closer to level than vertical) to force you to do this.

    devash
    Member

    Buy a large frame (which just happen to be as rare as unicorn’s teeth because the Cotic guys persuaded everyone to buy a medium for the chuckablez).

    At 6 ft on a medium Soul, I’d say your bike is miles to small for you. I had a large, and found it short. You probably have miles of seatpost showing, which is pushing your weight way back over the rear wheel, and that’s looping you out on the climb.

    Slamming the stem will move your weight forward and down ever so slightly, but your arse will be in the same place. Saddlr forward would help slightly, but I doubt you have space to spare

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    Lay forward seatpost?

    Blackflag
    Member

    im on a medium 26″ Cotic Soul with 140mm travel Revelations. I know the bike is ideally suited to 120mm but it is supposed to be able to take 140mm. But on very steep climbs the front is really quite wandering and im trying to resolve this if possible. I’m 6′ on a medium so the bike is on the small side which may or may not be relevant, with a 50mm stem and 10mm rise bars. 20% sag in the forks too.

    ive only got 10mm of spacers on there, but would “slamming” the stem make any real difference or is it a case of sucking it up and living with with it?

    Premier Icon metalheart
    Subscriber

    Well, I had pretty much this exact problem (6′, medium Solaris, 65mm stem, 762mm bars, layback pin).

    Front would virtually leave the ground on steep climbs! It would definitely skip about a bit…

    I have solved this problem by buying a large SolarisMAX with 60mm stem, 750mm bars and an inline pin.

    The problem was my weight was too far back.

    I suspect you’re in a similar boat. New Cotic height charts have been revised to put you in the large frame category too. Things have changed.

    Course you could always put on a 90mm stem… 😉

    Course you could always put on a 90mm stem..

    Worth trying as well – long stems being unfashionable means they go for next to nothing on eBay.

    This thread hasn’t gone the way I thought it might – the title immediately made me think of a mate who’s wife threatened to cure his ‘wandering front end’ by converting him into a unicycle! She was from the east end of Glasgow, so we were all pretty sure the threat was credible…

    Premier Icon vincienup
    Subscriber

    Normally I’d look at setup but I’d agree that you may have a frame size problem. I’m 178cm on a Medium Soul275 and Medium Solaris and wouldn’t really want the frame any smaller. The Soul275 is a tad longer than the old 26, too.

    Definitely swap the spacer round so it’s on top of the stem and see if that helps. Maybe play with bar position, try rolling it forward a few degrees, might or might not help. You probably don’t really want anything longer than a 65mm stem if you want to keep handling in check although with a stem that long then you might want to consider narrower bars – if you have lock-on grips you can get an idea for this by moving the grips inboard a bit to where they would be without cutting or buying anything. I found 760’s with a 70mm stem very wandery while 720’s worked fine. If you’re considering a new stem, then see if you can get one with a shorter stack height. You’re unlikely to same much more than 5mm this way but every little helps. Lower rise or even flat bars are probably worth investigating.

    140mm is right at the edge of the design envelope for the Soul. If you’re on short bike they might be too much. There was always lively debate about 120/130/140 for the Soul26, and basically it boiled down to ‘depends where you live and what you ride’ I think, but a longer fork is always going to be a hinderance to climbing on a bike, all other things being equal. It just can’t help it, it pushes the front up which pushes all the other angles and forces your weight further back which will cause the front to go light. There’s no real way to try a shorter fork without borrowing one or shortening your existing fork.

    Try everything else first, but I fear shortening the fork or sizing up the frame may be your best options. FWIW, I’m shortening a Pike to 130mm for my Soul275 tonight…

    Premier Icon Normal Man
    Subscriber

    metalheart – Member
    Well, I had pretty much this exact problem (6′, medium Solaris, 65mm stem, 762mm bars, layback pin).

    Front would virtually leave the ground on steep climbs! It would definitely skip about a bit

    I’m just over 5’11” with long limbs. Mk1 Solaris. 60mm stem. 740mm bars. 120mm forks.

    Can’t say I had the lifting or wandering on steep climbs but do notice the ‘short’ when mile munching (hence why I also now have a larger framed bike for that).

    I had this problem on a small giant reign, im 5 foot 8″. put a 2deg slack headset on it and wider bars and was much improved. have no idea one can fit your bike though.

    Premier Icon johnhe
    Subscriber

    I rode a medium BFe for years. I’m 6′. I had 760mm bars, a 40mm stem, and 150mm revs. Sorry, but I wouldn’t have wanted any larger frame, no matter what the experts say.

    Yes, the front was wandery. But the bike was fab when pointed downhill and well worth putting up the wandering imo.

    The forks are the problem, Cotics are best with about 110mm of travel; you’ve only got to look at one with long travel forks to see they’re not designed for them. Too much travel not only slackens the head angle, but also the seat angle, and it decreases the “reach”

    Lots of spurious info above though; miles of seatpost showing pushing your weight right over the back wheel? Eh? Your seat heights your seat height, doesn’t matter whether you’ve got loads of seat post showing or not. Your weight will be in the same place over the back wheel whatever the frame size.

    It’s a lightweight steel xc frame, not a “plough” bike. Set it up and ride it as it was intended.

    A knackered cotic……

    Try a 10mm longer stem aswell. Personally, I found with a 70mm it just put a bit too much weight over the front end and it lost some of it’s ability to hop/manual. 60mm was spot on though.

    Premier Icon jkomo
    Subscriber

    Can you reduce the travel in the existing forks like you can with fox?
    Also just buy a super cheap 60mm stem, slam it and see if that helps, for £20 or so it’s worth it.

    Premier Icon simon1975
    Subscriber

    All I can add is that I’m 6’1″ on a large (19″) Simple with 60mm stem and it fits perfectly. I previously ran a 80mm stem but that stretched me out ever so slightly too much.

    I tried a medium (17.5″) Soul once and it felt tiny compared with my then-current 18″ Inbred.

    rocketman
    Member

    I know the bike is ideally suited to 120mm but it is supposed to be able to take 140mm.

    Been there

    But on very steep climbs the front is really quite wandering

    Done that

    I’m 6′ on a medium so the bike is on the small side which may or may not be relevant, with a 50mm stem and 10mm rise bars. 20% sag in the forks too.

    Yup

    ive only got 10mm of spacers on there, but would “slamming” the stem make any real difference or is it a case of sucking it up and living with with it?

    Your bike is too small and the forks are too long. 120 mm fork will make everything better. Bigger frame will make it better still

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