Relocating abroad but still working (remotely) – legals/tax?

Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 20 total)
  • Relocating abroad but still working (remotely) – legals/tax?
  • skybluestu
    Member

    I am hoping to move ton France for a year and still work for the UK company remotely during this time. Will be keeping current house and renting it our whist also renting in France.kids would be going to French schools hopefully.
    Hs anyone done similar and if so could you provide any advice on what legal/tax hurdles I need to think about?

    Cheers

    Premier Icon stealthcat
    Subscriber

    How much information do you want – I deal with the tax side of this for a living…

    When are you planning to move there?

    mikewsmith
    Member

    Find a good accountant….

    skybluestu
    Member

    Planning on moving August 2018 – August 2019.
    Just starting to look into it really. Work has potentially no issues with it if it doesn’t affect how they have to pay me etc.
    Thinking about using French taxpayers services such as health and education etc so would assume they would want a slice of tax at least? Would look to finish the last month with a long holiday for a month too.

    Premier Icon jimdubleyou
    Subscriber

    Our friends have just moved to the south of France, he’s doing the weekly commute and still being paid PAYE.

    As I understand it, there’s a dual tax treaty which means you don’t have to pay twice.

    I’d see a professional.

    b r
    Member

    Not sure now, but back in 2000 we moved to Germany to do a secondment for the company I already worked for in the UK.

    They paid me PAYE in the UK into my UK bank account. I arranged an NT tax code with HMRC which meant I paid no income tax. Still paid NI though.

    Worked well 🙂

    Premier Icon jimdubleyou
    Subscriber

    They paid me PAYE in the UK into my UK bank account. I arranged an NT tax code with HMRC which meant I paid no income tax. Still paid NI though.

    Fiscal nomad – good work!

    Premier Icon orangespyderman
    Subscriber

    If you’re working in France (physically located in France when you work, not a French resident but commuting to the UK) it will be complicated for your employer unless they have a French entity that could payroll you*. You would, effectively, have to be paid as a French worker, with appropriate payslips, rights, and more importantly social contributions et al taken at source. From a tax perspective, as those earnings are earned in France, they will be subject to French taxes too. Your UK earnings whilst a French resident would fall under the double taxation

    How likely is it they’d get stung if it wasn’t done this way? Depends what company it is. Ryanair got stung, but they’re pretty high profile.

    How likely is it you’d get stung if you were resident in France and claiming all your revenues were UK earned so taxed in UK and therefore fell under double taxation treaty? Pretty high, I’d say, and be prepared to provide a lot of justification of travel back and forth to help prove that the salaries paid were for work that was actually completed (or largely completed) in the UK whilst you were resident abroad…

    Find a good accountant, and accept advice on taxes offered above. It isn’t as easy as most people try and make it for themselves (and that’s why some of them fall foul..).

    *This is my case, work for a UK registered company but based in France and payrolled by the French subsidiary of that company.

    Edit : just read this bit

    Just starting to look into it really. Work has potentially no issues with it if it doesn’t affect how they have to pay me etc.

    As mentioned, it almost certainly will (even in my case it means billing my salary back from the French entity). If that’s a showstopper you should probably seek advice from an accountant that has experience in this, on all sides (France and UK, employer and employee)

    cchris2lou
    Member

    You won’t have to pay for education out of taxes.
    For public school ( run by local council, Mairie) .just register with the Mairie and the school and that is it.
    For private school ( mainly Catholic school) , just go to the school and register. They are cheap thought and usually smaller.

    Moving to France in April and my mum who lives in France has registered the kids for me.
    I had to send her birth certificate. And they want a copy of their grades ( releve de notes) to see their levels.

    Stoner
    Member

    how would advice in here differ if you were “self employed” with your own company? Your company billing in the UK, but you living in France with monthly trips to UK. You pay yourself in a combination of base salary and dividends, both you and the company pay NI.

    Premier Icon orangespyderman
    Subscriber

    You pay yourself in a combination of base salary

    That salary, whilst you’re in France would have the same constraints that I outlined above for your employer. You’d need specialist tax advice to confirm or other wise, but a monthly trip wouldn’t, in my experience, suffice for the French tax authorities as proof the work wasn’t being essentially performed in France. Unless they were 3 week trips 🙂

    There are situations in which it could work – if you were sent to France to perform work for your UK company that was a “job” or a “project”. So, a team of welders from a UK firm get a contract to do some welding on bridge in France. They come over, weld, and go back and are UK employees the whole time. Residency changes that (as does the fact the work has no specific end date).

    It’s a complicated area, and I’m just giving a broad overview based on experience and some knowledge. My opinion is that it will have to materially change the way (s)he is employed in some way. There are several ways it could be made to work, and the best of those ways depends on both parties. The self-employed would probably suit the employer, for example as they have little more to do, but not the employee as they have everything to do (and still the same constraints that the employer would have had). I would also advise that the authorities have a particular view of “companies” who have a single client, and there have been cases where such an arrangement has been re-classified retro-actively as employment.

    The best advice is to find someone who is specialised and run through all the alternatives. There are specialist firms who deal in international mobility because it’s a complex topic. And that’s also the reason that such advice if sometimes expensive 😯

    Premier Icon stealthcat
    Subscriber

    If it’s only for a limited period, your employer can apply for a Form A1 for NICs, so you continue to pay UK contributions, but you’d need a good accountant to sort out the tax…

    Premier Icon mugsys_m8
    Subscriber

    We moved to France 8 years ago. My employer agreed to keep me on as full time salaried working from home as long as I spent 1 week/month at my expense in my UK base office. Sometime along the line it didn’t work as we feared it might: working remotely in France is seen in the eyes of HMRC as working in France with all that entails. Lack of healthcare entitlement was one of the big concerns even though you can get private cover to cover such scenarios. It would have cost my employer way more to have me as a french employee or a sole representative etc.

    So I went independent registered as a ‘profesional liberal’ in France (i.e. self-employed).I then got some work from my ex-employer who has now become one of my clients. And despite all the uncertainties I love working as an independent, it has actually re-invigorated my career and I have been involved with so lots of exciting projects and I think developed more professionally and personally than I would have done otherwise.

    This was based on us moving to France full stop with a young family. Feel free to e-mail me: DanJDOTHeywoodATgmailDOTcom

    Stoner: a UK based company might choose to employ a french living and registered profesional liberal for a certain role.That french living person would be paying all his personal deductions in France such as taxes, obligatory pension and non-private healthcare together with a private mutuelle top-up to the healthcare if so wished. He/ she would then invoice the UK based company.E-mail as above.

    Stoner
    Member

    cheers mugsy/orangespyderman
    food for thought.
    The professional liberal seems most likely to suit to save making massive rearrangements of my company. I certainly wouldnt want to move the Co. to France. It’s an idea we have to spend a year or so in France soon. The thread has reawakened ideas….

    cchris2lou
    Member

    I think if you work more than 183 days in a country, that is where you need to pay your taxes.
    Profession liberale is a like independent etc…most of medical professionals are liberale.

    Premier Icon mugsys_m8
    Subscriber

    Stoner: It could be that the UK company engages the french prof lib at a very low rate. As a result the french prof lib has an income which means he/she can register on the auto-entrepreneur scheme which simplifies all cotisations and avoids the N+2 for certain cotisations…..

    Stoner
    Member

    simplifies all cotisations and avoids the N+2 for certain cotisations…..

    Simplification of cotisations would definitely be a good idea…. ❓

    Since the company is “mine”, it bills my clients as and when on project completions. I simply draw personal income as needed from my company. In France that would remain the same, but my drawings in France would come under French tax jurisdiction, no?

    skybluestu
    Member

    Food for thought indeed. An accountant I feel will be worth the investment. The company does have rea h globally including France so that might be an option too.
    Thanks for the advice chaps and/or chapesses.

    Premier Icon stealthcat
    Subscriber

    If you want a bit more detail, PM me on elainebarber at elainebarber dot plus dot com – as above, this is what I do for my day job, so I can give you a few other pointers…

    Premier Icon orangespyderman
    Subscriber

    As a result the french prof lib has an income which means he/she can register on the auto-entrepreneur scheme

    This is a red flag to the authorities. An auto-entrepreneur in services with a single foreign client will set alarm bells ringing as “salariat déguisé”. If you have several clients this is fine, if you have one, tread carefully.

Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 20 total)

The topic ‘Relocating abroad but still working (remotely) – legals/tax?’ is closed to new replies.