Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 87 total)
  • Religious Recruitment – Legal?
  • franksinatra
    Full Member

    I’ve just seen this on a job advert:

    This role is subject to an Occupational Requirement (OR) that the successful applicant is a Christian who is committed to the values, beliefs and behaviours set out in our ethos statement.

    Is that legal? Fair enough asking for people to be committed to a companies ethos statement but requiring them to be a Christian seems a bit much.

    tomhoward
    Full Member

    Is the role a vicar?

    avdave2
    Full Member

    Well I’m guessing if you are applying to be Pope then it’s not unreasonable

    5lab
    Full Member

    there are loopholes to allow for religious organisations to hire people from their religion. I believe the loopholes have been used in dubious places before, but if its a church or maybe a church school (??) I think its legal

    some info here https://www.stoneking.co.uk/literature/e-bulletins/religious-occupational-requirement-exception-discrimination-claims

    pk13
    Full Member

    There is a family company that insisted on this cannot remember them but they are well know might be furniture/construction.
    I *think it’s ok with the law just.

    tabletop2
    Full Member

    Yes in rare cases organisations are allowed to request certain protected characteristics e.g. gender, race religion.

    For example to work in a women’s safe space, they may want to only employ a woman for certain role etc

    franksinatra
    Full Member

    Job is for an outdoor activity instructor.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    I doubt then its legal unless the whole organisation is a part of a church

    nickc
    Full Member

    Yes legal under the equality act. When there’s a genuine requirement to discriminate.

    For the outdoor instructor, If part of the role is to provide religious guidance, then yes. I think if you were recruiting for a admin role in outdoor centre that is religious based, then probably not.

    Robz
    Full Member

    If the job description/role is only concerned with teaching outdoor sports and not responsible for the spiritual/religious development of people then it is discriminatory.

    If the role has a specific responsibility to teach/lead on religious topics then it would be acceptable.

    eg. you don’t have to be catholic to teach maths in a catholic school

    See ACAS training/guidance

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    I’m confident my prayers about the safety of that belay will do the trick, lads.

    BaronVonP7
    Free Member

    Is it the Saly Army Job?
    If so, it was a bit “baity” not to put that in the OP.

    steezysix
    Free Member

    Job is for an outdoor activity instructor.

    Jesus saves, but so do buoyancy aids and climbing helmets…

    Cougar
    Full Member

    When there’s a genuine requirement to discriminate

    Job is for an outdoor activity instructor.

    I think they’re acting illegally here. Religion is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act, it’s not lawful to ask a candidate in a job interview unless it’s directly relevant to the role.

    franksinatra
    Full Member

    If the job description/role is only concerned with teaching outdoor sports and not responsible for the spiritual/religious development of people then it is discriminatory.

    Interesting stuff. The other thing that is nuts is how many qualifications they are looking for, and the level of management responsibility, for £23k a year.

    Its not for me, I was just looking to help a friend out who is new to the area and works in the industry so pointing her to local vacancies.

    This is the job
    https://rockuk.org/career/current-vacancies/

    Cougar
    Full Member

    eg. you don’t have to be catholic to teach maths in a catholic school

    Do you have to be Catholic to teach RE in a Catholic school?

    Surely the importance here is a command of the subject. Similarly in the OP, one could follow “the values, beliefs and behaviours set out in our ethos statement” whilst being, say, Muslim?

    kayak23
    Full Member

    Human resources moves in mysterious ways.

    northshoreniall
    Full Member

    Christian charity so guess they do a bit of religious guidance/ indoctrination or not belay you safely?

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    From their blurb:

    Rock UK is a Christian charity who have a passion to invest in young people. We welcome people of all faiths and none and provide a safe and friendly environment for them to be themselves.

    Asking for Christian-only staff makes it seem like a bit of active evangelising to a captive audience of roped up kids is expected then.

    nickc
    Full Member

    If the outdoor centre is religiously affiliated and offers religious guidance to it’s guests, than it’s fine to recruit some-one who believes in the region in question and to discriminate against those who don’t (but even if they can still understand and quote bits of the bible), so if there are two otherwise equally good candidates; one believes the other doesn’t, it’s Ok to chose the former, you’re not breaking the law.

    It’s that simple.

    the-muffin-man
    Full Member

    From the front page of their website…

    GUIDED BY FAITH
    Rock UK is a Christian charity who have a passion to invest in young people. We welcome people of all faiths and none and provide a safe and friendly environment for them to be themselves.

    …but if you’ve got a captive audience you may as well try and convert them all to Christianity!

    molgrips
    Full Member

    Do you have to be Catholic to teach RE in a Catholic school?

    No because RE isn’t religious instruction, it’s education about religions. Anyone could teach the material.

    I know of one education institution that requires its principal to be Catholic, but no-one else.

    but if you’ve got a captive audience you may as well try and convert them all to Christianity!

    Unlikely to be any conversion going on – they probably just want to make sure that they can claim to be upholding ‘Chrisian values’ so they can continue to get funding.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    There is a care home in Edinburgh that only takes protestant Christian nurses and patients. Its owned by a church tho so legal

    the-muffin-man
    Full Member

    @martinhutch

    Spooky!!! Divine intervention there! 😳

    franksinatra
    Full Member

    Rock UK is a Christian charity who have a passion to invest in young people. We welcome people of all faiths and none and provide a safe and friendly environment for them to be themselves.

    This role is subject to an Occupational Requirement (OR) that the successful applicant is a Christian who is committed to the values, beliefs and behaviours set out in our ethos statement.

    Quite some contradiction that, isn’t it?

    theotherjonv
    Full Member

    eg. you don’t have to be catholic to teach maths in a catholic school

    My wife did that (OK, was a finance person rather than a teacher, but there was a ‘preference may be given to …’ clause in the job advert)

    She only had one problem when she was there, another staff member (not a Senior Leader, just another staffer) asked her if she was going to the staff prayer meeting, and when she said no because she wasn’t catholic was asked slightly aggressively why she had taken a job in a catholic school. Other staff were all fine about it. I think they were a bit more restrictive on staff who were pupil facing (ironic given the church’s record with kids, perhaps better to keep them away…. 😉 )

    avdave2
    Full Member

    Job of maintenance technician states:

    The successful candidate will need to have an understanding of the organisation’s Christian ethos and a willingness to work within an environment that seeks to promote that ethos.

    So no requirement to stand in front of the busted boiler and fix it with the laying on of hands.

    I’d assume that the outdoors instructor might need to believe in the raising of the dead. It would certainly save a lot of boring safety procedures.

    maccruiskeen
    Full Member

    Job is for an outdoor activity instructor.

    White water baptisms

    IdleJon
    Full Member

    If the outdoor centre is religiously affiliated and offers religious guidance to it’s guests, than it’s fine to recruit some-one who believes in the region in question and to discriminate against those who don’t

    Would it be acceptable to do the opposite? Set up an atheist organisation and deliberately not recruit anyone who is at all religious?

    the-muffin-man
    Full Member

    White water baptisms

    More efficient – you can do a whole boat-load in one go! 🙂

    maccruiskeen
    Full Member

    The successful candidate will need to have an understanding of the organisation’s Christian ethos and a willingness to work within an environment that seeks to promote that ethos.

    So no requirement to stand in front of the busted boiler and fix it with the laying on of hands.

    That doesnt require the person to be religious, just be aware of what the organisation is and does. I know its difficult to believe but even some atheists can manage to meet, talk to and work with religious people and organisations and be polite about it. But some people do find other people’s faith difficult so they’re just making a fair disclosure about what the organisation is. They’re giving the candidate the opportunity to discriminate, they’re not discriminating against the candidate.

    franksinatra
    Full Member

    If the outdoor centre is religiously affiliated and offers religious guidance to it’s guests, than it’s fine to recruit some-one who believes in the region in question and to discriminate against those who don’t

    So this centre is in a really remote place with limited employment opportunities. They are also advertising for an Administrator with the same Christian requirement. If someone local who is well qualified for the job cannot apply purely based on their religion rather than experience, do you think that is fine? Why do you need to be a Christian to do administration well (or outdoor instruction)?

    gingerflash
    Full Member

    “Quite some contradiction that, isn’t it?”

    Not really. I think the charity sees itself as a group of Christian people providing their services to people of all faiths or none.

    They’re not saying “we welcome people of all faiths and none to come and work for us”.

    maccruiskeen
    Full Member

    .

    franksinatra
    Full Member

    That doesnt require the person to be religious, just be aware of what the organisation is and does. I know its difficult to believe but even some atheists can manage to meet, talk to and work with religious people and organisations and be polite about it. But some people do find other people’s faith difficult so they’re just making a fair disclosure about what the organisation is.

    The maintenance job is the only one written in this way, every other job states must be Christian

    Cougar
    Full Member

    the successful applicant is a Christian who is committed to the values, beliefs and behaviours set out in our ethos statement.

    Is this “ethos statement” available to read anywhere?

    downshep
    Full Member

    IIRC a Scottish Catholic School tried to get round the requirement to include Non-Catholic staff by requiring all applicants to include 2x references, one of which had to be from their priest.

    This kinda thing

    nickc
    Full Member

     They are also advertising for an Administrator with the same Christian requirement

    Again, if the admin job has a JD that includes religious guidance to the folks that come to the centre then again, it’s fine to discriminate against those candidates who don’t believe. If not, then that’s probably not legal.

    do you think that is fine?

    It’s the legislation set out in the equalities act, whether i think it’s fine is moot.

    Why do you need to be a Christian to do administration well (or outdoor instruction)?

    Because if they instructor/admin is expected to give religious guidance then it make sense to be able to discriminate towards folks who believe, or against those who do not. Why would you, if you don’t believe, want to go and work in an organisations that’s going to expect you to give (for instance) biblically/Christian appropriate answers to guest’s questions about life the universe and everything…

    I get that it otherwise probably seems like a good opportunity to your friend, in a limited area of available work but it may not be a good a fit.

    WorldClassAccident
    Free Member

    Kind of reminds me of the parents who used to go to church for the month before school applications so they could get their kids into the better Catholic school back when I was young.

    Nowadays there seems to be a trend to send Muslim girls to the Catholic school in Southampton but I think that is mainly because it is / was a single sex school.

    desperatebicycle
    Free Member

    If someone really wants the job, surely it’s easy to pretend to be religious? Amen (see)

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