Any ideas how best to do this?

I have an offer of a fixed penalty for speeding which I intend to challenge but there isn’t any option on the form to reject the offer, just details of how to pay the fine.

My first thought was to return the letter with a covering letter of my own however there are 2 addresses, that of the camera unit who caught me and the ‘Scottish courts & tribunals service processing unit’. Neither of those sound like the right people although I’d guess the camera unit might be more relevant. I’ll probably send a covering letter to both those groups but does anyone have a better idea or any experience/advice on what happens next?

Cheers

Were you exceeding the speed limit?

Pay the fine.

Life’s too short and they don’t care.

Were you exceeding the speed limit?

Pay the fine.

Life’s too short and they don’t care.

Having seen speeding threads on here before I was of course fully expecting such responses but that was some seriously quick work.

No, I’m not going to pay the fine. I have very good grounds for challenging it and there are already precedents for this kind of challenge.

But were you speeding?

Was just trying to save you time.

Court it is then. Lawyer up. It’ll cost you more than £100 and 3 points (or speed awareness course).

Just out of interest – what are the mitigating circumstances. If you want more than cursory “pay the fine” on a forum you’re going to have to pony up the details. 🙂

If you want more than cursory “pay the fine” on a forum you’re going to have to pony up the details.

Indeed – mainly because I’m a bit bored and want some gossip!

Best of luck…

Just out of interest – what are the mitigating circumstances. If you want more than cursory “pay the fine” on a forum you’re going to have to pony up the details

Fair enough, and in the interest of heading off much judging… Panel van converted to camper but not reclassified by DVLA. We contacted the DVLA when we did the conversion and they said getting the body type reclassified was not what determined the speed limit but the Road Traffic Act definition of a ‘motor caravan’ which reads:”a motor vehicle which is constructed or adapted for the carriage of passengers and their effects and which contains, as permanently installed equipment, the facilities which are reasonably necessary for enabling the vehicle to provide mobile living accommodation for its users”. They further said that if our vehicle met that description then campervan speed limits applied. So we have in good faith been driving the vehicle at the speed limits for campervans.

Oh, now suddenly actually interested (vested interest)! And genuinely, good luck!

Is that really a defence that’s worked for others? Seems flimsy as anything given your V5 will clearly show that it’s a van

It was quite some time ago granted, but DVLA quite happily reclassified our LDV lwb hi-top minibus to a camper when we sent evidence of the work done. IIRC we had to show it had a bed, table, sink, stove.

Is that really a defence that’s worked for others?

I got a fine cancelled just by evidencing that my van was for private use.

I called the number on the small print on the letter and spoke to a nice lady (Cumbria police).

Seems flimsy as anything given your V5 will clearly show that it’s a van

If you look at what the DVLA say it isn’t anything to do with what it says on the V5 and a bit of googling reveals that it has been successfully challenged in court.

It was quite some time ago granted, but DVLA quite happily reclassified our LDV lwb hi-top

They did with our last van too but the criteria have changed and lots of things that most people would call a campervan don’t qualify.

I got a fine cancelled just by evidencing that my van was for private use.

I called the number on the small print on the letter and spoke to a nice lady (Cumbria police).

Cheers for that. No number on my letter but I’ll see if I can find one for them.

I am bored enough to check the V5 for my campervan and it states ‘Motor Caravan’ as the body type, thus subject to higher speed limits on some roads.
I thought that to qualify as a Campervan the vehicle had to not only have the required features by to have been reclassified by the DVLA, thus recorded as such on the V5.
As others have suggested, more reaearch may be appropriate before missing the Fixed Penalty.

DVLA sent us confirmation that our conversion had all of the required features internally but weren’t changing classification to motorhome it’s now van with windows. The external features required being an awning, decals and windows, it’s got awning and decals and the new classification acknowledges the windows, go figure.

But yes we have the same guidance and would be challenging any speeding based on the same DVLA communication. I have a copy in the glove box.

a bit of googling reveals that it has been successfully challenged in court.

Do you want to go to court? – Might be quicker and easier to pay the £100 then write to the DVLA remind them of their advice (assuming you have that as written advice)  and ask them to refund your £100

🙂

If you look at what the DVLA say it isn’t anything to do with what it says on the V5

How many more times do you want to do this?

But yes we have the same guidance and would be challenging any speeding based on the same DVLA communication. I have a copy in the glove box.

Me too but it was a camera!

awning, decals and windows

I’d always thought it was kitchen, table and bed. Awning seems like an optional thing (freestanding tent awnings make a lot of sense) and WTF are decals necessary? (Though that does explain all the weird graphics common on campers)

But the pay (with a note along the lines of “not accepting that this ticket was issued correctly” and reclaim is likely to be cheaper and less time consuming on your part.

Isn’t it time that the law regarding van speed limits is reviewed? Times have changed since all vans were workhorses used for lugging heavy weights around. So many vans now are purely leisure vehicles and have all the same driver aids as cars.

Is the issue that a van has the potential based on size?

Decals?
A sticker on the back tbat says ‘ please dont send me n i p, because im a camper and can do 70mph on a dually’ or any other sticket, one life van life,
Not at all vague in any way

Ok, hang on, do they mean a speed roundal?

Isn’t it time that the law regarding van speed limits is reviewed?

It’s really inconsistent and confusing both in terms of how people use vans today and what types of vehicle are lumped together.

But the pay (with a note along the lines of “not accepting that this ticket was issued correctly” and reclaim is likely to be cheaper and less time consuming on your part.

It says on the letter that the offer is final and that no discussions of review of the case can take place after acceptance.

The external features required being an awning, decals and windows,

I think I’ve seen the ‘decals’ thing stated as ‘lifestyle decals’ but I’d be really quite curious as to how that can be defined.Whats the basis in law to differentiate between “One Life Live It” and ‘Maccruskeen’s Heavy Haulage” and say one of those things is a lifestyle and the other isn’t.

So many vans now are purely leisure vehicles and have all the same driver aids as cars.

those aids aren’t compulsory though – in either cars or vans – so they’re not a basis that you can classify a vehicle by

Is the issue that a van has the potential based on size?

Not really a 17 seater minibus would be the same size and weight  the largest and heaviest vans but is regulated by different speed limits with Minibuses able to drive faster – and coach built motor homes can be bigger still. Regardless of the fact that an accident at speed in a vehicle full of live cargo would be immesureably more tragic than a van full of cardboard boxes. Similarly coaches full of un-secured living loads are able to drive at higher speeds than trucks (who’s drivers would be prosecuted if their load wasn’t strapped down securely) of the same size and weight.

I’ve read all this advice about how you can decide your own speed limits based on your understanding of what constitutes a camper van contrary to what it says on the V5, and I reckon its complete BS. Do you actually know anyone who has successfully avoided a fine based on this challenge, or is this too just an internet assertion?

I was going to say I’ll eat my hat if I’m wrong, but I’ll go one better than that. If you can show indisputable proof this defence worked, £50 to a charity of your choice Spin.

Edit – As a van driver I do agree though that van speed limits should be the same as cars because they are largely as safe these days, upto 3.5 tonnes anyway.

I was going to say I’ll eat my hat if I’m wrong, but I’ll go one better than that. If you can show indisputable proof this defence worked, £50 to a charity of your choice Spin.

Have a look at this https://www.jerbacampervans.co.uk/campervan-panel-van-speed-limits-update/

If you decide it’s ‘indisputable proof’ I’m sure Dundonnell Mountain Rescue Team would appreciate your £50 https://www.dmrt.org.uk/how-to-donate-to-dmrt.html

So many vans now are purely leisure vehicles and have all the same driver aids as cars.

most vans do not have all the same driver aids, they also handle much worse, have worse braking distances, and weigh a lot more causing a lot more damage to whatever they plow into. I’d prefer they slow them down more.

Slighty similar, we have an N1 crew van that meets the criteria for dual purpose vehicle (which are allowed car speed limits).

At the time of purchase I reviewed this with the manufacturer, dvla and dvsa. The outcome (which I have in writing) was:
Dvla do not put DPV or similar on the V5. They do document the number of seats (6) so there is a clue for the Police that it might be a DPV. So I can’t be accused of having an incorrect V5.

Dvsa say it doesn’t need to have DPV on the V5 – just that it meets the requirements of DPV for it to count. But as always with dvsa, they caveat that is just their interpretation and it should be confirmed in a court of law.

We don’t speed and have always had clean licences – so if we got a ticket for 57 in a 60 limit then it would get challenged as we aren’t breaking the law.

most vans do not have all the same driver aids, they also handle much worse, have worse braking distances, and weigh a lot more causing a lot more damage to whatever they plow into. I’d prefer they slow them down more.

But a campervan will also weigh the same with the same handling and braking distances

If you decide it’s ‘indisputable proof’ I’m sure Dundonnell Mountain Rescue Team would appreciate your £50

No, reading an internet blog of a secondhand story definitely isn’t proof, this is exactly the kind of ‘research’ I don’t subscribe to. It’ll have to be a photo of your discharge letter or whatever, with personal details redacted of course, when you win.

MRT a fine choice though, I kind of hope you’ll prove me wrong.

Not really a 17 seater minibus would be the same size and weight the largest and heaviest vans but is regulated by different speed limits with Minibuses able to drive faster

What is your understanding of the speedlimits of a minibus. More than that most 17 seat mini busses are driven grossly overloaded.

DVLA basically aren’t issuing V5 variations for conversions any more.

We went through and identified every requirement inside and out set them all out in the application document, had them all accepted and still got refused. It appears to come down to either they expect decals on the back as well as the sides or they expect opening (caravan style windows) neither of which are stated in their requirement docs. In the letter accompanying the V5 change to van with windows they state that V5 description is how it would be recognised not how it is classified for the purposes of legislation. You’d need to challenge any speeding prosecution with a comprehensive body of evidence that you comply with requirements. Where it becomes difficult is for things like ULEZ which is V5 based.

Following with interest

This might help, the last bit
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/clarification_on_the_definition

It is a weird aspect to the law that a van can only do 60 legally on a dual carriageway, which is actively enforced by the police, but is able to do 80-90 with complete impunity on a motorway.

This might help, the last bit
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/clarification_on_the_definition

That’s interesting, thank you. Further clarification/confirmation of what I thought!

How heavy is your van?

And, frankly, you’ll be going to court over it anyway. So weigh up whether you want to fight it this time or not.

The trick will be to get the DVLA to change what it is on your documents – so it doesn’t happen again.

Edit:
Basically: https://www.parkers.co.uk/vans-pickups/advice/campervan-speed-limits/

Wild wild west.

Please do come back and tell us what the judge said when he laughed at you 😉

To be fair. If you get a response from plod it may actually be to drop it.

At which point, brill.

But I’d be amazed.

Spin
Free Member
This might help, the last bit
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/clarification_on_the_definition

That’s interesting, thank you. Further clarification/confirmation of what I thought!

It’s also a formal Freedom of Information request, with the associated reference, so very useful as it’s exactly what you were asking, without having to wait 3 or 4 months for the FOI to get worked!