Redundancy?

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  • Redundancy?
  • boblo
    Member

    Not me, a close friend. He’s received an ‘at risk’ letter. There are 4 of them doing a similar job and da management want to slim down to 3.

    Anything to be aware of/make sure of? He’s got ~15 years service and a clean/good record during occasional and annual feedback 1:1’s so there shouldn’t be any underlying issues that would influence the decision (with him at least, can’t speak for the others).

    Not my area so clueless beyond providing a friendly shoulder.

    FunkyDunc
    Member

    Anything to be aware of/make sure of?

    Make sure he sleeps with the boss to avoid redundancy ?

    surfer
    Member

    His 15yrs may go against him, is he “expensive” in terms of salary and benefits? If he doesnt have any overriding skillset that is missing from the other 3 (sounds not) then it may be on cost alone.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Does he want to be there?

    What is the payout, how employable is he elsewhere?

    Howe close to retirement?

    jekkyl
    Member

    time to start checking out job sites and also new bike sites. Tell the wife you got less cash than you actually did.

    Premier Icon Speeder
    Subscriber

    15 Years service ? I’d be “Please pick me!!!” If they can afford a decent package of course.

    Depends what criteria management use for selection, ie bradford formula, disciplinaries, skills etc and the weighting of each. I’ve been involved in a fair few redundancy situations, heard all the theories of management targeting people etc, but the upshot of every single one of them is that good people have buggered off with a lump of cash, and the bawbags that the company were supposedly targeting are left untouched.

    Best of luck to yer mate.

    trail_rat
    Member

    “15 Years service ? I’d be “Please pick me!!!” If they can afford a decent package of course.”

    If its not written into your contract dont get your hopes up for more than statutory minimum – anything more is a bonus.

    Premier Icon FuzzyWuzzy
    Subscriber

    As long as the company follows the correct process there’s not a lot he can do, either they want to keep him and will manipulate the process (selection criteria) to do so, want to get rid of him (again manipulate the selection criteria) or don’t really mind between the 4 of them and use unbiased criteria in which case it depends on things like performance, length of service, sick leave etc. in comparison to his colleagues.

    Even if he would prefer to stay it’s often a good time to start looking/prepping for another job anyway, he may find a better job anyway and want to move regardless.

    thecaptain
    Member

    ^this. Even if he survives this time a company undergoing redundancy is usually a shit place to be.

    Mister P
    Member

    15 Years service ? I’d be “Please pick me!!!” If they can afford a decent package of course.

    Statutory redundancy is capped at £508 per week with a total cap of £15240.  You get 1 week per year up to the age of 41 and a week and a half after that.  15 years service will probably add up to less than £10k payout.

    Statutory redundancy is capped at £508 per week with a total cap of £15240. You get 1 week per year up to the age of 41 and a week and a half after that. 15 years service will probably add up to less than £10k payout.

    I got 2.5 weeks for every year when I took voluntary redundancy, plus shift allowance, based on a total of 16 years service, And total was a lot more than that too.

    Premier Icon BoardinBob
    Subscriber

    I got made redundant back in February after 15 years. Zero warning. Was more of a clearing out of various senior people as the company wanted to go in a different direction and I was included in the cull.

    Fairly painless experience. Legally the person being made redundant is required to get legal advice from an employment lawyer which the employer should contribute to costs(typically a few hundred pounds) . Assuming the settlement they offer is acceptable then the lawyer will give it the OK then the employee signs it and that’s pretty much everything.

    Interestingly my lawyer told me that based on what I told her, I would have a case for unfair dismissal but in reality the payoff from my company would far exceed anything I could win in court, so she advised me to accept it and move on.

    Best thing that ever happened to me. I set aside some of the money, took 9 months off and did lots of stuff. Just started back at work last week with a new company that doubled my old salary. Was initially worried in the first few days after getting the news but that quickly subsided. Do miss a lot of my old colleagues but overall its been hugely positive. The one caveat is I have no wife or kids to provide for so I was able to take the 9 months off with no worries. It also coincided with me selling my house and moving in with my girlfriend so luckily my monthly outgoings shrank enormously.

    I get the impression the level of payoff depends on how quickly and quietly they want you to go. If the company your friend is working for is in difficulties, then he may not get much more than statutory. Because my departure was a bit more controversial they basically bought my silence and compliance which I was OK with

    oldtalent
    Member

    Generally the decision was made weeks/months ago who is going. Nothing he does will have any influence on that now.

    Premier Icon BoardinBob
    Subscriber

    Generally the decision was made weeks/months ago who is going. Nothing he does will have any influence on that now

    Definitely

    Premier Icon rickmeister
    Subscriber

    What these two say ^^^^. At this stage its probably a legal hoop jumping exercise but the decisions are already made….

    Polish the CV up, offline Linkedin update and read the Gov info from the link further up ^^^

    Generally the decision was made weeks/months ago who is going. Nothing he does will have any influence on that now.

    Nope, IME that’s giving upper management wayyyyy too much credit. When I got my voluntary, there was 205 redundancies, only 7 ended up being compulsary, the rest were voluntary/early retirement. All the bawbags, lazy bastards and rabble rousers are still there….

    Premier Icon juanking
    Subscriber

    Well we got the collective consultation today as well, must be something in the air.

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Subscriber

    Well we got the collective consultation today as well, must be something in the air.

    The need to get everything sorted by the end of the financial year, I’d have thought.

    i cross my fingers every day for ‘the news’

    poolman
    Member

    Nobeers spot on, I have been through a few.  The best people are the most employable elsewhere so just b…er off at the first sniff of a cull.  Culls usually come in several waves, so expect a few more.  I would just take the money and reskill, loads of opportunities out there to get started on v little money.

    FunkyDunc
    Member

    In reality they will already made their decision who is going and that will boil down to who they do t like or who costs too much money

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    It’s also important to understand what the redundancy is for, it’s not always bad news as a good restructure can leave places better off. I know a few where people are happy to go and business is going to be doing better.

    Generally the decision was made weeks/months ago who is going. Nothing he does will have any influence on that now.

    Every office or workplace has this bloke… Tends to be the one they want rid of 😉

    Mister P
    Member

    I got 2.5 weeks for every year when I took voluntary redundancy, plus shift allowance, based on a total of 16 years service, And total was a lot more than that too.

    Hence my inclusion of the word “statutory”.  Don’t bank on a huge payout if the company is struggling or if you aren’t liked.

    Sorry MisterP, I read that all wrong.

    whitestone
    Member

    I was made redundant at the beginning of September, nothing personal about it as the whole office was shut down. We strung the “consultation” out as long as we could due to the initial announcement being about a week before everyone started taking holidays so they said they’d wait until we were all back. That meant I *just* got my five years in, so an extra week and a half’s salary.

    Some were worried about it as they’d mortgages, etc. to keep going but I wasn’t that bothered as we have no debts so there’s been no financial incentive to keep my “career” going. If it hadn’t happened I’d probably have quit before too long anyway as I wasn’t enjoying it so getting paid to go was a bonus really 🙂

    I was in a similar position a few years back (at risk, 4people for 3 roles). But I’d only been in the company 2yrs so was sure it was me they’d pick. Turned out although I had the least experience, I had the most qualifications so was safe.

    The guy that left had the most experience, almost 40years with the company, but 0 qualifications which was a huge negative on how the redundancy procedure was scored.

    However he got a HUGE payout, paid off his mortgage, went on holiday for a month, came back and then was quickly was re-employed by a different department on contract work for the same wage.

    Hes still with the company, I’ve moved on.

    One thing I was always surprised about, at every redundancy in my old place (aviation, it’s up and down…. badumtish!) the company always called every individual redundancy ‘compulsary’, even the voluntary ones. Meant that mortgage insurance kicked in etc. It’s fraud really, and something I was surprised they exposed themselves to.

    boblo
    Member

    I’m of the ‘they’ve made their minds up already’ camp as well. He’s the longest serving, highest salary out of the 4. Presumably makes him both an asset and a target.

    They’ve been poncing around trying to save money for a bit but dicking around at the edges. The nonsense is, they’re just about to move into a new £35m headquarters fitted out like a boutique hotel whilst at the same time, tipping folk out of the door …

    I’ll send him that link and a bottle of virtual whisky to drown his sorrows…

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    The nonsense is, they’re just about to move into a new £35m headquarters fitted out like a boutique hotel whilst at the same time, tipping folk out of the door …

    [blunt point] A good business doesn’t keep more people doing things than it needs[/blunt point]

    If there is only work for 3 why employ 4?

    Premier Icon rickmeister
    Subscriber

    Boblo, have a think back from the start of a typical financial year… April. All depending on how organised or bothered higher ups are about legal processes…

    Your in the consultation zone now…
    Notice of redundancy typically lands with a decision on go/no go at Christmas (yea !) ….giving you….
    3 months notice up till April
    Come back with a contract position or step into a new position…

    Fair few here have been through it and some have had to run the process and have those difficult conversations but at the end of the day be on the front foot, understand the processes and timings and make sure you are on top of everything….

    dovebiker
    Member

    Happened to me (for the third time) in April and been ‘at risk’ at least 2 other times – been there for 16 years, getting to loathe the job so probably did me a favour. Healthly pay-out plus I’ve got no mortgage – been working to set-up my own ‘lifestyle’ business but its taking longer than I thought which probably means I’ll start looking for another ‘job’ come January as we continue to develop our own business.

    Every time its happened previously I got a big step-up in salary, but I’ll be 54 in 2 months, so not expecting to keep parity – probably a short-term contract.

    As soon as you’re notified ‘at risk’ then they can’t stop you going to interviews, seeking employment support so make use of that time.

    Premier Icon frankconway
    Subscriber

    Redunders – it’s the job that’s being made redundant, not the individual; check the law.

    OP’s mate needs to be clear in his/her own mind about what they want and then game the system; it’s not hard. As a starter HR are rarely totally compliant with legislation.

    Premier Icon P-Jay
    Member

    There’s really not much you can do, hopefully as he’s been there since the early 2000s he’s got a 2000s style contract. I got 3 weeks salary per year, plus pro-rata Peformance Bonus and an employment consultant to write a ‘killer’ CV etc so he might get a decent pay-off.

    We’ve got record employment in the UK at the moment so he needed be out of work long.

    Often when employers decide they can increase your workload by a third ‘coz cost savings’ it’s better to be the one to leave.

    I went through redundancy 4-5 months ago.  All worked out very amicably from start to finish – but my employer was (and is) very strong on culture and the ‘people stuff’.  On day one I was told my role was at risk, which basically translated to “You’ll be out of a job within 30 days, we’re offering you a package and you’d be silly not to accept it.”

    Totally unexpected as I was the lead on a number of projects including one of the most important in the company’s history.  Others were asked to leave at the same time, including one of the proper HIPO Directors who could do no wrong.

    All in all very liberating.  Am currently contracting.  Pro’s and con’s for sure, but I reckon this is the way forward for me.  May of course be a totally different landscape for your buddy.

    FTR this is my third redundancy.  All have been amicable, thankfully.

    boblo
    Member

    frankconway

    OP’s mate needs to be clear in his/her own mind about what they want and then game the system

    In what way ‘game the system’? What should he be looking out for please?

    Ta.

    Premier Icon Sandwich
    Subscriber

    Gaming the system needs the employee to know the rules better than the company. Any mistake in applying the approved code is an opportunity to make the payout bigger. It’s difficult if this is a first time redundancy but the ACAS advice on redundancy process is a first stop.

    boblo
    Member

    OK. So in this pool of 4, they’ve been lumped together under a generic function that applies to the other 3 but my chum does a different job. Is there something there? I.e. Why is he even in that group?

    Premier Icon richmars
    Subscriber

    I would guess that the generic function is the role (or roles) that remain after the redundancy, so they are all competing for one of these.

    OK. So in this pool of 4, they’ve been lumped together under a generic function that applies to the other 3 but my chum does a different job. Is there something there? I.e. Why is he even in that group?

    In my case I was the odd one out, they lumped me in with the senior engineers and said they only wanted to keep senior engineers and above so I was f***** from the word go.

    Might not be the same, but as you realised, why put him in the pool if he’s not in the same job.

    Having been through the process I’m far less inclined to give employers any benefit of the doubt, I would be advising him to be applying for every job he can, why show any loyalty to a company that puts you through a redundancy process even if it then decides it wants to keep you.

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