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  • Redbull Hardline – 2024
  • butcher
    Full Member

    However what was interesting was that these jumps don’t appear to have been designed/built by the riders, which imo makes a big difference.

    Massive difference imo. That Instagram video is even worse, does he start losing it on the launch because of the compression going into it?

    FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    Does appear that he let go of the bike as soon as he left the ramp, I imagine wasn’t ready for the compression or the kick?

    When they first looked at it the landing was straight on to the scaffold, then when they jump it the landing has been extended by a good metre or more

    mashr
    Full Member

    mrdobermannFree Member
    Danny Way done something similar on a skateboard 18-20 years ago!

    (which was very cool, but…) Danny had that built exactly as he wanted it, for him to hit. These lads have essentially turned up at the track and been told “there you go, you need to do that if you want to ride the event”. Quite a different prospect imo

    crab
    Free Member

    Well all I can say is I hope the safety netting is up to the task. I can imagine the forces of someone hitting it from 30/40/50+ ft up at those kind of speeds is going to be pretty large. The scaffolding towers, presuming they’re going to fix it to them, look somewhat sketchy to me but I’m not a scaffolder.

    Personally I think this is a step too far and there’s too much chance of something going seriously wrong with this one. Once you need netting and loads of pads all over the place it just seems a bit like a circus. Maybe that’s the point.

    mashr
    Full Member

    I did see a (seemingly educated) comment elsewhere that the wind load from a safety net would mean needing a far bigger structure than they have there. Suppose we’ll see what changes through the week.

    I don’t see it being used as is. 3 hits; BK was very close to the left side of the landing, Matt was way off to the other side and I didn’t get the impression it was intentional, Jimbo is now laid up with a decent concussion. Not a great proving session.

    FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    elsewhere that the wind load from a safety net would mean needing a far bigger structure than they have there

    BK was veryclose to the left side of the landing, Matt was way off to the other side

    I did think before they even went down it that the chances of a full run will be limited as the wind will effect that jump massively and in these vids it was flat calm. There is no plan B wind effected possibility with that track… unless they are now going to dismount and run along those planks

    BK only just landed , another foot to the left would have been a big accident.

    BruceWee
    Full Member

     I imagine wasn’t ready for the compression or the kick?

    I did find myself wondering what the compression forces were just prior to the ramp and then thinking about Bernard Kerr’s last frame failure…

    Wee bit more focus on H&S needed, I reckon.

    reeksy
    Full Member

    “No broken bones, just a bump to the head……”

    Yeah, that’s a pretty disappointing attitude. That’s one **** big bump to the head and they should be taking this kind of thing more seriously.

    Kramer
    Free Member

    I’m honestly not sure how helpful a net would be?

    Also looking at it, someone lands in the net in a bad way, how the hell are they going to get to them and stabilise and evacuate them?

    mashr
    Full Member

    KramerFree Member
    I’m honestly not sure how helpful a net would be?

    Also looking at it, someone lands in the net in a bad way, how the hell are they going to get to them and stabilise and evacuate them?

    Very, if someone loses it in the compression and plops onto the net it’s saving them a xxft fall to the ground.

    An awkward landing on a springy net with tricky recovery is still far better than scooping remains from the floor

    BoardinBob
    Full Member

    Whoever their liability insurer is, they must be looking at this with their head in their hands

    Kramer
    Free Member

    An awkward landing on a springy net with tricky recovery is still far better than scooping remains from the floor

    Are the nets springy?

    ocrider
    Full Member

    They needn’t bother with a net. Just stick a shark tank in the gap. #facetiousbuttruenonetheless

    Looking back to when they had a surplus of jobless carpenters in Utah, I thought that things had changed for the better since they stopped adding the structures at Rampage. The Athertons obviously beg to differ.

    thebunk
    Full Member

    I can’t watch that. Fine saying they are grown adults making a choice, but these top level Red Bull events make & sustain careers so there’s a pressure on riders to participate that is close to exploitation.

    If there was some obvious sense that Red Bull had put in a structure that looked after rider & course safety and post crash care I’d be able to watch it. Maybe Redbull do behind the scenes, but it feels like they don’t want to talk about it, so it ends up appealing mostly to teenage boys and men hoping to see some gore.

    There’s a way of constantly increasing progression that doesn’t involve scaring the living daylights out of skilled pros. F1, for all of it’s faults, demonstrates how a sport can use danger as part of the appeal while still constantly talking about and improving safety.

    If it emerges that it was a safely run event and there’s some cool footage, I’ll watch the highlights, but this years one has no appeal to me as a live sporting event.

    ocrider
    Full Member

    so it ends up appealing mostly to teenage boys and men hoping to see some gore.

    To quote Ed Masters recently on the Downtime podcast:

    “The internet just wants death”

    Gribs
    Full Member

    There is no plan B wind effected possibility with that track… unless they are now going to dismount and run along those planks

    Where they turn left and head to the first stream jump is just above the old (pre cliff drop) course so it’d be possible to re-join that. It’d not really matter though as there’s still the 90 footers and the road gap.

    mashr
    Full Member

    KramerFree Member

    Are the nets springy?

    Yes, otherwise they’d be playing a bit fast ‘n’ loose with the “safety” part of safety net – you’d come out of it in tiny cubes

    rockhopper70
    Full Member

    Just seen those videos. It does make you wonder if someone at the more sane end of the self-preservation scale will just say, “nah, ‘ollocks to that”, and decline to compete. The risks there just seem stupid. If you come up slightly short you are straight into a timber knife edge.
    I do wonder if they have already had some riders voting with their feet, just not entertaining it.  Surely that feature is going to be heavily adapted for the actual event.

    wordnumb
    Free Member

    Turns out it may not actually give you wings shocker.

    fenderextender
    Free Member

    Hmm getting less and less natural each year.

    Im actually disappointed

    Agreed. The same can be said for a lot of the WC DH too. Motocross tracks without the loop and some gradient. It gets more a test of bottle than all round bike riding skill.

    Cuz da Internet wants da big jumps and da big roosts in da cornaz innit.

    It actually makes me not wildly bothered that the UCI has sold its soul to Discovery-ESO-WB with Messrs Ball and Cunningham.

    If the Athertons get away with another event this year with no life-limiting injuries or fatalities, the ante will just get raised each year until there is one.

    Ed Masters has it right “the Internet wants death”.

    leffeboy
    Full Member

    Matt Jones had a go too.

    That Matt Jones video is great, you really get the idea of just how scary it is but also how they approach it.  The first ‘gnarly gnarly’ video didn’t do that.

    Gribs
    Full Member

    Just seen those videos. It does make you wonder if someone at the more sane end of the self-preservation scale will just say, “nah, ‘ollocks to that”, and decline to compete.

    It’s no different to previous years in that respect then. The cliff drop was a big deal the first year along with the 90 footers 2 years ago. Multiple world cup riders have turned up for practice and declined to ride the full course or actually race it.

    zerocool
    Full Member

    isn’t the reason BK and Co are there early is so that they can give feedback and change the features accordingly?

    lister
    Full Member

    Yes, Matt Jones actually explains it in his latest video and says that BK’s ‘job this week’ is to test and check to see what is rideable and what needs to be changed. They didn’t go near the 90° hip over the stream higher up but said what would need to change.

    I got the impression that BK, and maybe Jim Monro, are there to work and be paid. Jones just seemed to go along for a laugh – but he’ll also be getting massive hits on SM and YT so probably will be able to afford to eat this week 😉

    I’d guess they’ll be back tomorrow and Wednesday to fettle some more.

    chrismac
    Full Member

    It does make you wonder if someone at the more sane end of the self-preservation scale will just say, “nah, ‘ollocks to that”,

    im sure plenty already so given the lack of top wish riders on the list. Bruni for example as clearly declined his sponsor invitation. I’m sure many others do too

    BoardinBob
    Full Member

    $15k for the winner apparently according to pinkbike.. if that’s accurate I don’t think it’s just reward for that risk

    bobbyspangles
    Full Member

    The line into the hip wasn’t built on the last video that why it wasn’t ridden.
    I love the track, really making people sit up and notice.
    Some right fannies on here worried about the danger element of an extreme sport.

    desperatebicycle
    Full Member

    Looks bloody amazing. WIll most definitely be watching!

    seriousrikk
    Full Member

    The more I see of the track the more I’m looking forwards to being there on Sunday.

    I really want as many riders as possible to have clean runs and hit all the big features. I do hope the canyon gets work to make sure the entry list can all clear it – currently looks like it sends them too high!

    tomhoward
    Full Member

    Racing should be about who in the field can do it the fastest, not who can survive the course.

    Same reason the grand tour stages aren’t 400km & 10000m of climbing.

    Building that with no regard to safety is asking for trouble, consenting pros or not.

    FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    Some right fannies on here worried about the danger element of an extreme sport.

    Im all for people being able to do what they want and try and kill themselves how they want. I used to jump off cliffs skiing , jump over crevasses etc.

    But all that wasn’t in the name of making other people rich, or trying to get mass social media and mainstream media coverage.

    The danger with the way Redbull appears to be going with Ramoage and Hardline is that someone will die or have life changing injuries which gets this level of organised sport banned .

    Idf you are going to do it ‘professionally’ like this is being done you have to take safety seriously

    Anyhow didn’t headline start with the ethos getting a bike down the most challenging natural mountain, to now get your bike down the most challenging heap of scaffolding 😂

    tomhoward
    Full Member

    Some right fannies on here worried about the danger element of an extreme sport.

    We want to see cool riding, we dont want to see those who have more ambition than ability, or are just plain unlucky, paralysed or killed.

    pothead
    Free Member

    The danger with the way Redbull appears to be going with Ramoage and Hardline is that someone will die or have life changing injuries which gets this level of organised sport banned .

    The Isle of Man TT has fatal injuries pretty much every year as far as i know and I’ve never heard anyone say that should be banned

    FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    The Isle of Man TT has fatal injuries pretty much every year as far as i know and I’ve never heard anyone say that should be banned

    loads of people have called for the TT to be banned. However they have done all they can realistically do with safety

    Marshals have site of every section of the track, areas are heavily padded. There are qualified trauma doctors on site in various positions along with lots of paramedics. There is also dedicated helicopter support. So I would say they take safety a lot more seriously

    markspark
    Free Member

    I’m very much in the they are free thinking adults who can make their own decisions on what they want to do camp, no one is forcing them to do it. And equally no interest in the inevitable go fund me page if it does go wrong.
    I don’t think red bull really care how many mountain bikers watch it live, it’s more of social media content gathering exercise

    tomhoward
    Full Member

    That (TT) course hasn’t changed in a century and is very much a known quantity, what’s made it dangerous is the speed the riders do it at as time has gone on

    This is the course being changed to make it deliberately more dangerous.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    Matt Jones is an absolulute gift to mountain biking- good enough to ride this mad stuff, but normal enough to be shit scared, I love seeing them arguing about who’ll go first, walking round stuff etc, just like my lot on a normal ride except multiplied by a million. His Rampage video added a ton of value in the same way. I’d rather watch him working his way down than the winning run I reckon.

    FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    I didn’t like the comment at the end of the vid where they said they are now going to put safety nets up. Maybe put the safety nets up first , and then remove them once all riders have cleared ? Rather than risk life changing injuries or death first .

    I guess the important thing is that this is the test runs, the course isn’t finished and there’s literally no pressure, even Bernard Kerr who’s job ultimately is to approve it and ride it, can say “no”. Matt says partway through “I didn’t know this was happening today” which fits too.

    I guess the nets are going to be catch near the top, rather than big trapeze style full nets? Stop the fall early rather than try and save it at the bottom. If anything it’s the awfulness of the landing that hit me- you can’t come up short of course but you also can’t go long, you go straight into unprepared hill, you’ve got to land and turn. And if you land to the left it’s just a less awful cliff, to the right it’s more unprepared hill. You obviously would choose to go long or right if it goes wrong but that’s not how it works, you’ve got to get it <right> and getting it right means you’ve no choice but to be close to the big hazard.

    The whole thing would feel a lot less iffy to me with a better landing, without really losing anything of the obvious peril. In that way it’s comparable to the trailbuilding we do, a little double or rock feature can be an unacceptable risk but we often can fix that by taking out the fall hazards, brashing the trees and shifting rocks, improving sightlines etc, so that the failures are less bad.

    thebunk
    Full Member

    I can’t watch that. Fine saying they are grown adults making a choice, but these top level Red Bull events make & sustain careers so there’s a pressure on riders to participate that is close to exploitation.

    I’m always really relieved when someone just walks away. It’s a sort of proof of concept, if everyone who was signed up rides it that leaves me a wee bit twitchy at this level.

    But as long as it’s standalone events I don’t really see the pressure in that way, like rampage there’s so few riders that actually <do> it that you can’t really say anyone can feel they have to. There’s a lot of riders these days that could do it and don’t, it’s just not that obvious because they’re just not doing it. Yoann Barelli’s inputs always welcome 😉

    pothead
    Free Member

    loads of people have called for the TT to be banned. However they have done all they can realistically do with safety

    Marshals have site of every section of the track, areas are heavily padded. There are qualified trauma doctors on site in various positions along with lots of paramedics. There is also dedicated helicopter support. So I would say they take safety a lot more seriously

    All of this may be true but people still die every year, everyone taking part knows the risks involved and are prepared to take those risks, the same applies here in my eyes. Plenty of the the top racers don’t think it’s worth the risk and don’t turn up despite being sponsored by Redbull

    bobbyspangles
    Full Member

    Hard-line had always been a man made track with huge features dug, never just a natural ride down a mountain that’s the whole punta
    Same for rampage, man made lines where athletes go to have free choice not bound by overbearing international federations etc.

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