Bloody sick of them – ringing up asking to speak to my employees and offer them jobs! Have they no bloody morals!

Hate them all!

No they don’t, their morally superior cousins the letting agents look down in them

It’s all fair game…..

‘s the free market economy, innit?

that’s crazy.

Can you get their calls blocked?

if you are paying them a decent market rate and treat them well what are you worried about?

if you are paying them a decent market rate and treat them well what are you worried about?

This.

what they ^ said.

They’ve probably got a whiff of something not being right at your company if they’ve started to poach.

if you are paying them a decent market rate and treat them well what are you worried about?

This, no need to worry, I’m sure they’re all just saying “no thank you, have work at a great place, am well paid and my boss is awesome”. Obviously if this is not the case I’m sure you wouldn’t begrudge them moving to somewhere were it is the case and the recruiter is just making them aware of the opportunity to do that…

Edit, I quite like recruiters call up my team, it means I’m employing good people, I also like that they tend to stay in their current role. 😉

do you have a switchboard/ operator who can filter out their calls?
with tools like LinkedIn however, they can appear to not be Recruitment Consultants (what do they actually consult on anyway?) by asking for people by name.

if you are paying them a decent market rate and treat them well what are you worried about?

Not worried (and I would like to think we pay very fair/slightly above average salaries and treat staff as well as we can) but if someone goes, they go, I know how it works. But I am paying them to work for me and I don’t expect them to be spending time talking to a recruitment consultant in working hours.

I’m on contract in germany at the moment but two agencies have phoned this morning asking if I would leave this job and go somewhere else for an extra 6 months and £% an hour, NO I’m happy here thanks.

Cut copied and pasted from Contractor UK

Recruitment agents are habitual liars

They don’t lie when it is essential, they don’t lie when they think it is necessary, they don’t lie occasionally, sometimes or frequently. They are so accustomed to lying they do it all the time.

For example, here is a call I had yesterday afternoon. Warning signs and tips are in red.

1. I have had a call from Jimmy Mumble from Mumblymumble Resourcing. If he had had a real role he would have stated his name clearly and quite possibly not his agency name (they really are that egocentric). This test works >90% of the time.

2. He then did NOT say “Is this a convenient time to talk?”. They ask this when they have something worth talking about, when phishing they do not care about you as a person and do not ask the question. This test works >80% of the time.

3. Scum: “I’ve got your CV from AnyOldWhere. You used to work at PreviousClientCo, yes?”

Me: “Yes.”

Beware. When told they found you, you are likely to feel head-hunted and flattered. They might not want you, but your knowledge.

4. Scum: “They have a number of roles I am trying to fill and I have seen you have worked there before.”

A number of roles means “none, but I’m trying to get a foot in the door”. Agents rarely are trying to fill a random selection of different kinds of role. When they are – and it is rare – then they will be loooking to build “an Oracle development team” or “a new in-house testing team” and not “a number of roles”. This test works >80% of the time.

5. Scum: “What kind of work did you do at PreviousClientCo?”. He has my CV in front of him, FFS, he found me. Is he getting clarification? No, he has not read my CV, he got it from a keyword search on the employer’s name and now he is trying to find out what I can tell him about PreviousClientCo. This test works >50% of the time.

6. Me: “I was a Junior Widget Wangler providing fundament cleaning services to Yes Men.”

Scum: “So, who were you working with there?” There it is. That’s the primary purpose of the call: to get a contact name from you so they can start hassling your old boss, the friendly referee and making that referee hate you in the process. This test is valid > 99% of the time.

In 15 years I have twice had an agent say this question legitimately:
“Who were you working with there, because I placed Fred Bloggs in the manager role, he bought me a bottle of Scotch for placing him, what’s he doing now?”
and
“Who were you working with there, because I dealt with a Melanie Frontage and I’d love to know how to get to see her again.”
That is two calls out of an estimated 2000 (Ed: and the rest!) discussions with agents.

—> If the agent wants names, there is no point continuing the call. <—

7. Me: “Did you say you were recruiting for them?”

Scum: “Yes.”

Now I know he was lying because it was a government site that only uses Catalist for its recruitment and Mumblymumble Recruitment didn’t sound like one of those agents.

When at ClientCo, always try to find out who is on their Preferred Supplier List. It often comes in useful later.

8. Me: “There has been a shuffle round since I was working there, it is different managers doing the recruitment now.”

Scum: “But can’t you give me some names?”

Me: “I could, I know the recruiting managers and the directors plus the decision makers and key business managers, obviously. But as I say, they’ve had a shuffle round.”

Scum: (now wetting himself) “So, who did you work with and what are they doing now?”

Me: “I’m not sure that will help, many have now been promoted to more senior positions or moved sideways, they are doing different things.”

Scum: (who has run out of ideas) “So can you tell me who is doing the recruitment?”

Make them squirm. Practise your negotiation skills. They’ve wasted your time by lying to you, have some fun.

Me: “The people you are already dealing with, of course.”

Scum: “Err, oh, of course.”

<silence>

<you hear a Ping! as Jimmy Scum remembers his training>

9. Scum: “Can you give me the names, just to make sure they are the same people?”

Use their own silly lies on them. Then they understand what is going on as it is the only language they know.

Me: “Sorry, I can’t do that. Data Protection.”

10. <click> He realised he was going to get no information from me so he hung up on me.

There was no “number of roles”, he was lying. He was using me to get information. Rather than simply tell me the truth he lied. Had he asked me how to get onto their PSL, I would have told him all about Catalist.

Find a way to cope with these liars so you can sleep at night.

11. When you have found that way of coping, please post it on here for my benefit. Thanks.

But I am paying them to work for me and I don’t expect them to be spending time talking to a recruitment consultant in working hours.

… and this sentence is maybe why they are taking the calls.

and this sentence is maybe why they are taking the calls.

They aren’t taking the calls. And seriously – what do you think is wrong with expecting someone that works for me to work for me rather than have their time taken up by a cold-calling recruiter?

All my employees could quite easily, at a drop of a hat, get a different job should they so wish as we are in a *very* competitive industry – not one of them needs to be cold-called to get a job, they could get one by themselves very, very easily.

Edit – and for what it is worth, I told the employee (that was asked for on the call) what had happened and told him the name of the agency too – if he is interested he can call them back in his own time…

But I am paying them to work for me and I don’t expect them to be spending time talking to a recruitment consultant in working hours.

Then you should politely ask your staff not to. It’s not the consultants fault that your staff aren’t doing what they’re paid for. If I’m approached at work, I ask them to phone back during my lunch break or after work. They are all happy to do so.

But I am paying them to work for me and I don’t expect them to be spending time talking to a recruitment consultant in working hours.

Your attitude sucks! Do you monitor their toilet breaks as well?

Have you considered that its actually your employees or their friends, ringing in, pretending to be from recruitment, to get you to consider them in a different light?

#meta

We once had an agency call our boss pretending to be the IT Director, asking him to fax his employees’ mobile numbers to him urgently. And he did. When we all complained about the annoying calls we then received he said “I didn’t think it sounded like him…” Doh!

One rang me on my direct dial yesterday, I said the standard “sorry I’m a bit busy and then put the phone down”… he then called straight back, as in 5 seconds later, and said “did you mean to put the phone down?”?! 😕 😡

Your attitude sucks! Do you monitor their toilet breaks as well?

Why does my attitude suck?

because this is STW and it’s full of contrary marys.

I’ve known own plenty of contractors who would move for 50p/hr it’s shitty but shotgun sales. Ask the dick to come in and discuss your upcoming recruitment campaign for 3hrs…

because this is STW and it’s full of contrary marys.

Shit yes, I keep forgetting 😉

Why does my attitude suck?

Worrying about what they’re doing every minute and whether it’s what you pay them for is pretty stupid. I’m guessing you don’t just pay them to look busy and there is some measurable output that you pay them for?

If so, all that matters is whether they achieve that or not. If they spend half the day browsing STW and still manage do the work, then it isn’t a problem. If they slog away for 8 solid hours without so much as a pause for thought, but still don’t produce the goods, then you have a problem which is worth worrying about.

Worrying about what they’re doing every minute

But I am not worrying about what they are doing, but equally I do not expect recruiters to ring me asking to speak to my employees during working hours and expect to be put through. I didn’t think it was that hard a concept to grasp.

But I am not worrying about what they are doing

But I am paying them to work for me and I don’t expect them to be spending time talking to a recruitment consultant in working hours.

Do make your mind up…

I didn’t think it was that hard a concept to grasp.

I’d work on getting a clear message across right first time – it’s taken all these posts for everyone to understand that (1) you’re taking the calls, not your employees and (2) your employees aren’t using the time you’re paying them for to receive calls from recruitment agencies. Because you’re taking the calls.

Are you the receptionist?

I blame Hora.

Genuine questions (from someone who does work in recruitment), why do people feel so averse to giving names out in the scenario philxx1975 mentions up there? I ask as if someone calls my team and wants my name (or calls me and wants my MD’s name) I give it to them, no skin off my nose, then me/my boss can work out how to deal with the call.

Also, direct approaches (head-hunting if you will) are part and parcel of recruitment. The OP said he works in a competitive industry, if he was hiring where would he want his next person to come from? A CV from jobsite of a guy who’s not working (not working when the market is good? So are they any good then?) or a guy doing great things at your closest competitor? I know who I would want.

Genuine questions (from someone who does work in recruitment), why do people feel so averse to giving names out in the scenario philxx1975 mentions up there? I ask as if someone calls my team and wants my name (or calls me and wants my MD’s name) I give it to them, no skin off my nose, then me/my boss can work out how to deal with the call.

Also, direct approaches (head-hunting if you will) are part and parcel of recruitment. The OP said he works in a competitive industry, if he was hiring where would he want his next person to come from? A CV from jobsite of a guy who’s not working (not working when the market is good? So are they any good then?) or a guy doing great things at your closest competitor? I know who I would want.

^ This 🙂

if he was hiring where would he want his next person to come from

Never, EVER from a recruiters, that’s where.

In reality we work lots with the higher ed sector (free teaching, placements, even run a free three day workshop every year to teach industry standards (ie, the stuff they don’t get taught at Uni) and usually recruit from those contacts.

Kicks off about staff getting calls in work time (I’m struggling to think of a time outside of work hours when I’ve been called by an agency) by posting it on STW.

Does not compute.

Never, EVER from a recruiters, that’s where.

Why’s that? They can access people at your competitors that you can’t, can vet them before you see them and can do all the negotiations so you don’t have to. You’ll normally get better people, albeit it will cost you a couple of quid.

Or you can get the people who apply for your jobs and/or are “actively in the market”…

Kicks off about staff getting calls in work time (I’m struggling to think of a time outside of work hours when I’ve been called by an agency) by posting it on STW.

Does not compute.
They can use the internet, no problem at all, we even have it in our policy that they can use the office network for their own use (with obvious restrictions). It is very different than being called by a recruiter.

Why’s that? They can access people at your competitors that you can’t,

Various reasons such as being stung in the past, being sent any old person they claim can do the job when they clearly cannot (ie, no experience in the particular coding languages we use – this is despite using specialist recruiters working in our field, they still can’t get it right). In 11 years of being an employer, every time we have tried a recruiters in the past has been a waste of our time so we don’t do it anymore. Simple as that really.

And I find it especially amusing when we feature a job on your website that clearly says ‘No recruitment agencies’ that we get them ringing up. If they can’t follow *that* simple request, why on earth do they think they can listen to our particular requirements?

And again, being in a competitive industry, any potential employee using an agency is clearly not of the calibre required because if they were they would be employed anyway.

johndoh – Member
And I find it especially amusing when we feature a job on your website that clearly says ‘No recruitment agencies’ that we get them ringing up. If they can’t follow *that* simple request, why on earth do they think they can listen to our particular requirements?

Presumably because if they don’t call they definitely won’t make the connection, whereas if they do they probably still won’t, but… nothing ventured nothing gained, right?

And again, being in a competitive industry, any potential employee using an agency is clearly not of the calibre required because if they were they would be employed anyway.

???
If they were employed they wouldn’t be looking so that’s exactly when you need an agent to call into the company and make contact with people who are employed surely? The people who don’t need an agent are those that are actively looking and applying for jobs.

In 11 years of being an employer, every time we have tried a recruiters in the past has been a waste of our time so we don’t do it any more

That’s fair, if you’ve been strung in the past I understand your reluctance. However, I know you are looking for staff having been on your website, how’s that working for you by the way? Let me introduce myself, I’m a specialist rectuiter in… 😛

Free market IMO, free game IMO.

Bit crass to expect them Not to try and contact your employees, clearly they’re (your employees) good and their skills are in need.

We have massive throughflow here, very competitive, rates go up and people move on.

Part of the modern game init.