Reach and Stack like a Pitch… confused

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  • Reach and Stack like a Pitch… confused
  • Premier Icon doom_mountain
    Subscriber

    Am I misunderstanding Reach and Stack measurements?
    Reach is the bb to headtube as a horizontal measurement, correct?
    I want something that feels as long as my Pitch with being overly tall by going up a size.

    Looking for something with similar numbers to the Pitch, even modern slack/long/low frames like Banshee Spitfire, Rocket or Stumpy FSR EVO don’t seem to have a reach as long as the Pitch. Even the Enduro isn’t as long in reach.

    Rocket is 419mm
    Pitch is 450mm
    Both medium frame, which is the difference between nice short stem or having to use something longer..?

    Premier Icon rickon
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    I’d go by the ETT, the effective top tube, that gives you an idea how long the bike is horizontally when you’re sat on it. Then you have a bit of freedom to add / subtrack 10mm or what you like on the stem.

    Stack will adjust how tall the front end feels, and how much you’ll be pointing arse up and head down. You’ll be able to adjust that with spacers on the steerer, but you wont be able to adjust a head tube size…. too tall on a 29er, and you’ll end up flipping the stem, too short on a 26 and you’ll have loads of spacers under the stem and look a bit.. well… odd.

    🙂

    ETT for me is the most important for an *idea* of fit, then I’d be looking at HA, SA for how the bike will pitch you forward or back, but like everyone will say, you’ll need to ride one to really know.

    Premier Icon rickon
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    A medium rocket is 593mm for a medium, which is longer than the average medium 26 bike. I’d say the average being 585mm’ish.

    The Pitch is 586mm, so pretty average.

    A longer toptube means you can run a shorter stem, without feeling cramped.

    What size stem are you running? And what height are you? are you long in the legs, torso or arms?

    Premier Icon tmb467
    Subscriber

    Surely as the seat-tube and head-tube angles change tho, then your position on the bike will change so your position with regard to the bottom bracket isn’t the same and therefore reach becomes less relevant on its own and it’s more about finding the right overall geometry for you

    Wider / riser bars and shorter stems will help tune the position but as someone who has had to move from an olde Enduro to a newer frame, it’s not so much about the reach and stack numbers but wheelbase, head angle, seat angle and chain stay length

    All in my opinion tho. Just saying that you can’t compare two frames on paper really so get a test ride with different bars/stems/frame sizes especially if you’re spending a lot of money

    YMMV

    legend
    Member

    ETT is only good for sitting down, and the sort of riding you’d be likely to do with a Pitch is likely to involve a lot of standing. This is where reach comes into play and ETT becomes basically useless

    Pitches did always seem very long (like a lot of Specializeds used to be), from the impression of the sizing I got I wouldn’t be surprised if they seem a lot longer than other brands equivalents

    As for a longer stem on a Spitfire/Pitch/Enduro….. not for me anyway

    Premier Icon doom_mountain
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    I’m 5 10, 50mm stem, long in arms and torso.

    I understans ETT, the bit I’m confused by is the Rocket has a shorter ‘Reach’ measurement but a longer ETT, does this mean I’ll be sat further behind the BB?

    I know I need to ride them (already tried a Five) just researching / killing time until demo’s are available.

    Premier Icon doom_mountain
    Subscriber

    @legend
    That’s my point, I don’t want a longer stem, I want a long frame 😀

    legend
    Member

    I’m confused by is the Rocket has a shorter ‘Reach’ measurement but a longer ETT, does this mean I’ll be sat further behind the BB?

    Yup, assuming all things are measured equally of course

    Premier Icon doom_mountain
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    Shame I’ll have to wait a while to try a Rocket….

    Premier Icon bigblackshed
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    ETT is the distance between a theoretical horizontal TT and where it intersects the seat tube. Change the seat tube angle by 1 deg and the ETT changes.

    Seat tube angles are misleading because whatever they are the individual will have to adjust the seat position on the rails or even with a “layback” post the achieve the correct seated pedalling “knee-pedal” position. So when a designer says they set the seat angle to create forwards or backwards weight balance then they are compromising the correct pedaling position.

    Reach is something which doesn’t change for different sized riders and is more important for out of the saddle riding, the downs, which the Pitch is aimed at.

    A friend of mine was riding for Specialized as a test rider. He had a custom Pitch with a very long reach and wheelbase on a frame that was somewhere between a small and medium. His preference was for long bikes. Having riden a couple of standard production models I found them very short, his was spot on.

    Premier Icon doom_mountain
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    @bigblackshed

    Yeah, I prefer a longer bike too.
    Tried a few (santa Cruz, Trek) which felt short, Orange Five felt good.
    The knee/pedal dimesion is important to me as I have dodgy fell-runner’s knees.

    thedude
    Member

    The new kona process frames have long toptubes.

    legend
    Member

    Didn’t read about how reach works then thedude?

    Premier Icon doom_mountain
    Subscriber

    Process is on the list to try, but silly wheelsize means new fork and wheels
    Glad it’s not just me that’s confused with reach / top tube 😉

    SB66 has a mental long top tube (635 in a large, I think) Nicolai Ion 16 has a 610 TT. Both have the same 441 reach. Yetis are weird.

    Premier Icon doom_mountain
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    Would love a Nicolai, bit out of my price bracket though.

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