Just got back from the Sierra Nevada’s where it was raining and snowing some. Disappointed that my shell wetted out. Doesn’t bead anymore. It was an expensive jacket so was expecting better. As I’m not anxious to spend lots of cash on a replacement I thought I’d go the re-proofing route. Did try this on another jacket a few years ago without much success.

Any re-proofing product recommendations from anyone? Has anyone successfully reproofed a waterproof garment?

Nikwax.

i have tried a handful of times on mine.  It does work – for about 3 days.  Then it’s back to wetting out.

I bought a twin pack of Nikwax tech wash and proofer, it’s cheap enough that I’d give it a go.

My jacket didn’t work as well when it’s dirty the cleaner is usually enough to get it beading again, I use the reproofer at the start and end of winter and it’s laststed a good few years now.

I have 2 Paramo jackets that I reproof every couple of months during winter. They’re never quite as waterproof as they were when new, but it’s better than nothing and water does ‘bead up’ on them after doing it. It just doesn’t last as long IME.

I wash them first with Nikwax Tech Wash, then use TX Direct to waterproof them. Just make sure your washing machine is free from old laundry detergent and fabric softener before you do it. If you’re going to be reproofing them often or you’ve got a few bits of kit, it’s more economical to buy the Nikwax stuff in larger sizes.

I’ve always found wash in products like Nik wax to be pretty crap to be fair .but any re-proofing will only last as long as it’s next machine wash ..

The best product that I have used ..( I have tried Nik Wax , Graingers etc.) Is a German product from Ballistol called Pluvonin ..it’s spray-on and best done outside / in a well ventilated area..

Clean your jacket with one of the tech washes ..then spray this on which should last until the next time you wash the jacket ..

https://www.ballistol-shop.de/Pluvonin-Impregnation-Spray-500-ml_B-S_235.html

I use the spray version of Nixwax. I’m not keen on the wash-in version as it coats everything, inside and out, which seems like a bad idea to me.

I use the spray version of Nixwax. I’m not keen on the wash-in version as it coats everything, inside and out, which seems like a bad idea to me.

It depends on the jacket. If it’s two-ply and has a separate liner, you should use spray-on, if it’s a single layer of waterproof fabric, the spray is better. If it’s Paramo, wash-in stuff works.

None of the aftermarket treatments work as well as the factory-applied original DWR, but you can help by making sure the jacket is properly clean before applying the re-proofing stuff. And clean out the detergent drawer plus run a hot cycle through the washing machine before using it. Normal washing powders and liquids tend to mask the effect of the reproofer, so it doesn’t work as effectively.

I’ve never managed to get wash-in reproofers to work particularly well. Next time mine’s due, I’m just going to send it to Lancashire Sports Repair, and get it done properly. Costs more, but if it brings the jacket back to essentially as good as new it’s worth it.

i find that the est thing is to buy a jacket with a membrane. then it doesnt matter as much if it wets out.

i find that the est thing is to buy a jacket with a membrane. then it doesnt matter as much if it wets out.

Assuming this isn’t a troll, back to school mate.  It still matters.  If the surface DWR isn’t working, wetting out the jacket means breathability is compromised, and you will likely get wet (or wetter) from condensation.  Basically it will start acting like a bin liner.

I re-proofed my old Sprayway mountain biking jacket with Thompson’s Water seal, reckoning it owed me nothing. Once the kerosine carrier had dried off the jacket felt a bit stiff but now it feels very soft and water beads up just as well as ever. It refuses to die.

Angeldust has it- when membranes fail they lose breathability rather than waterproofness. Unlike Paramo which just turns into a sponge.

I find a medium heat iron rejuvenates my 9 year old eVent jacket to be like new. Tea towel over the top and just iron away. Terrified me the first time I did it!

Angeldust has it- when membranes fail they lose breathability rather than waterproofness. Unlike Paramo which just turns into a sponge.

Not quite :-).  When a membrane fails it will let water through from the outside.  The DWR is separate from the membrane – it coats the outer material of the garment, and allows water to bead, rather than wet it out and stop the membrane breathing.

Angeldust has it- when membranes fail they lose breathability rather than waterproofness. Unlike Paramo which just turns into a sponge.

No. When membranes fail, water gets in. When DWR – the water-repellent treatment on the outside of the fabric – fails, the surface fabric gets soaked which has two effects:

1. It stops water vapour escaping, so you get sweaty and wet inside the garment.

2. Wet fabrics also transmit heat more effectively, so they feel cold, particularly as you’re already clammy and sweaty.

Anyway, all a membrane fabric is, is a sandwich of a face fabric (the outside) and a liner fabric usually (the inside) with the membrane, either Gore-Tex or PU usually, in the middle. If you make a hole in the membrane, water will get in through it.

There are a couple of different technologies. Paramo, which works by voodoo, but still mostly works, and Columbia OutDry Extreme which sticks the membrane on the outside of the fabric, so it doesn’t wet out. Gore-Tex Shakedry is similar, but more fragile. Anyway…

Talking of Paramo jackets. The label on mine says to use detergent or dry clean to remove stubborn stains and then do the full Nikwax treatment. I’m assuming that it’s because it’s a different fabric to normal waterproofs.

Columbia OutDry Extreme which sticks the membrane on the outside of the fabric, so it doesn’t wet out. Gore-Tex Shakedry is similar, but more fragile. Anyway…

These, or similar tech might be the future, but I’ve not heard enough long term reports yet.  Also the Columbia designs aren’t great (heavy, rubbery, poor hoods).

Ok, ok- I meant when the DWR fails 🙂

Paramo works like wicking animal fur in that it actively transports moisture away from the body (well, away from the inner layer). The outer fabric is only designed to stop about 80% of the rain getting in. This is why it’s so much more breathable than a membrane (active vs passive diffusion). BUT when it gets contaminated with body oils, or you wash and and don’t reproof it it’ll just leak through.

Having been caught out badly by Paramo on a few occasions, I now consider it as a very water resistant softshell and also carry a lightweight waterproof when I’m hillwalking

I seem to find that when i use a dwr wash in treatment with a membrane it makes is less breathable than if i have a wetted out jacket.

Having been caught out badly by Paramo on a few occasions, I now consider it as a very water resistant softshell and also carry a lightweight waterproof when I’m hillwalking.

At one point, Paramo added a description to their waterproof garments: ‘Your Cascada II Trousers have been tested at the Leeds University Rain Room to resist at least 4 hours of steady rain’.  I find this to be pretty accurate.  After ~4 hours of heavy rain (especially if it is driving rain) the water usually gets through at a pressure point somewhere (usually something like where the keys in my pocket have compressed the pump liner).  However I’ve never been wetter in paramo in those types of conditions, than I have from condensation in a membrane waterproof (Neoshell comes closest), so I don’t bother with a membrane back up.

I seem to find that when i use a dwr wash in treatment with a membrane it makes is less breathable than if i have a wetted out jacket.

Just being silly now :-).

+1 Nikwax combo on my Paramo kit (overtrousers and jacket).  Both are 5-6 yrs old and performance-wise they’re the same now as when new.

Must’ve used Nikwax on other items over the years too.

These, or similar tech might be the future, but I’ve not heard enough long term reports yet.  Also the Columbia designs aren’t great (heavy, rubbery, poor hoods).

The hoods are slightly better than they look, but not much. I’ve heard anecdotally that they don’t handle long-term exposure to UV particularly well, but that’s possibly not an issue in the UK. And while they maintain their breathability even during prolonged use because the outer surface doesn’t absorb any water, they’re only middling breathable to begin with. Not as good as ShakeDry which does seem to work.

Marmot has a technology that it claims is a permanent DWR, but I don’t know anyone who’s used it long term. The bigger picture is that fluoro-chemical DWRs are generally most effective, but also environmentally damaging, so are being phased out. The holy grail of technical waterproof fabrics is a DWR that doesn’t stop working after a few hours or a technology which doesn’t need a DWR at all, but matches the performance of fabrics that do.

Sorry… blah, blah, blah, DWR etc 🙁

I have a Paramo Velez and if it leaks it’s always via the chest zip. The zip itself isn’t waterproof and the jacket design seems to rely on the fact any water getting through is pumped out very quickly.

As I said above, if the jacket hasn’t been reproofed in a while this usually means my chest gets soaked.

I think it’s a combination of Paramo not fitting a waterproof zip (why?!!) and the fact a chest strap on a rucksack will compress the liner at the same point.

Sorry… blah, blah, blah, DWR etc

My SO is very good at pretending to look interested when I explain this stuff to her, should she mistakenly ask a question about it….

“Also the Columbia designs aren’t great (heavy, rubbery, poor hoods).”

Which one have you used ? My caldorado outdry shell doesn’t have any of those issues despite it looking like all of the above in the picture in the catalogue.

Works really well and is one of the few jackets ive had that can be worn during intense activity such as hill running without either sweat building up massively inside or soaking infrom the outside.

therefore id quite happily take a punt on the more heavy duty models

Which one have you used ? My caldorado outdry shell doesn’t have any of those issues despite it looking like all of the above in the picture in the catalogue.

I’ve tried on quite a few, but only really tried 2 models properly: Outdry extreme stretch hooded jacket, and a slightly more expensive diamond EX version.  I didn’t like the fit or feel of the stretch version much at all.  The EX was better, but not great, and neither had a good hood (essential in a good waterproof).  I like the concept, but execution needs to improve before they could rival better designed alternatives.

Works really well and is one of the few jackets ive had that can be worn during intense activity such as hill running without either sweat building up massively inside or soaking infrom the outside.

What else have you tried, because Outdry doesn’t breathe that well?  It’s only advantage (and it’s a big one) is not needing a DWR to be maintained.

Maybe in the lab but it’s working well for me. The fabrics only one aspect the design works well for me.

Gore oxygen good just wore out  though age and is ££££ (the outdry was less than 1/3rd the price at end of season which was why i took an experimental punt on it)

Montane minimus was good just didn’t last long

Left field Madison apex …..which was like wearing an expensive bin bag – but as it’s a cycling jacket and it’s good with airflow over it at speed I’ll let it off.

Likewise my endura stealth which is good in cold and with airflow but breathes like ass.

My only complaint about the caldorado is it could do with a rear pocket and a hood storage flap but then it wouldn’t be silly light would it

And at the other end of the scale my north face 3 layer big days walking jacket works well but if you get a head of steam up and try running weariing it it sweats up inside quickly – but it’s not designed for that.

What is it about the design that stops it soaking from the inside, unlike the others you’ve tried?

I’m no jacket designer.

But your telling me it can’t breath lab says it shit …. (Most other reviewers disagree with you) ergo it must be the design.

I’ll reckon it’s well vented being part of it as it was quite parky in the snow running on meall a buchallie the other day

It’s always pants. What you doing in Sierra Nevada. If it was the Spanish one I love it there.

Or the interpretation of the reviewer…..

The range of breathability from membranes once you get above a certain price point isn’t that huge (with some exceptions, like paclight).  It’s only the top ones (e.g. Neoshell) that are noticeably better.  Outdry is decidedly average in that respect, both from lab figures, and personal experience.  I’d describe the breathability as okay, not ‘shit’.  The fabric is the only thing going for it.  The design of the garments are a bit shit, which is a shame.  I can’t really see why the design would breath that much better for you than the other ones you have owned, which is why I asked.  I’m not a jacket designer either, just though you might have an idea why it was working for you.

edit – I see you have edited something in about venting, which explains a lot.