scotroutes – Member
How about Spanish/Portuguese? From the outside, they look very similar with some differences down to not much more than another pronunciation

I guess this is the crux of it, what is the defining line, Spanish/Protuguese/Italian/French(and I think Romanian) are all the same family of languages. But when do you get a dividing line that makes it a different language?

Is there a specific amount of vocabulary necessary or does there need to be structural differences etc?

As i say that, as someone that has only ever learned English(and a tiny bit of pidgeon spanish), I struggle with calling something I can understand, fairly comprehensively, a different language.

Anyhow, I’ve said enough, I’ll let others continue this part of the discussion on for a while to get a different perspective.

I thought I did, then I visited Buckie…

Aye, it’s weel kent there’s fair some clatty hoors in Buckie…

Mebbe try Peterheed or the Broch next time 😉

Max Weinreich said “A language is a dialect with an army and a navy”

metalheart – Member

In my work there are quite a few people (Scottish) who have come to work in Aberdeen and they talk about being completely flummoxed by doric

Not proud of this but I was up in Aberdeen a while back and I thought the guy that showed me to my room was handicapped. Turned out, he was just speaking doric.

If you are wanting a good Scottish novel; try “His bloody project.”

The problem is we’re trying to apply lines on a map to languages and dialects. One town language would have been similar to its neighbours but not necessarily to the town 20miles away. Imposing borders and languages just complicates things.

This, definitely this. In my work there are quite a few people (Scottish) who have come to work in Aberdeen and they talk about being completely flummoxed by doric. I was talking about this with people from Alness and Ireland just last week infact. There’s definitely a whole vocabulary.

I’ve had to translate for two Scots on a number of occasions. Never really 100% sure why I could understand each speaker, I’m guessing it’s down to having to concentrate on what’s being said most of the time in daily life. It’s all barely intelligible rambling to me.

Not proud of this but I was up in Aberdeen a while back and I thought the guy that showed me to my room was handicapped. Turned out, he was just speaking doric.

I’ve done similar, albeit over the phone and the other way round. Just thought he just had a very strong Glasgow accent. 😐

It’s all barely intelligible rambling to me.

Well, that certainly explains your facial expression when I’m speaking to you…. 😉

@duckman read it just before Christmas it’s really excellent

It’s all barely intelligible rambling to me.

Are you talking about Doric?

If so, that’s a pretty loaded way to refer to someone’s language. You may find it barely intelligible, but that’s your fault not theirs. And calling it rambling is derogatory, don’t you think? You probably didn’t mean to be that way, I assume that you are just repeating phrases you’ve heard before. Which simply goes to show the negativity directed towards people of different backgrounds by everyone throughout history.

@molgrips: it was in reply to a post by me (and we’ve met in real life) so you need to think how that might affect things…

and we’ve met in real life

I have an absolutely terrible memory when it comes to real people’s forum names… 🙁

But the post was more a general point about language.

“Unlike England where there is considered to be one proper way of speaking”

That is utter b.llocks lad. It maybe view of them there BBC types but here in Free Yorkshire we can tell tha’s from Barnsley, Wakefield or Sheffield by way tha talks love. If tha’s from Whitby thee’s no chance of bein understood in Penistone.

There is no Gaelic spoken in Orkney and Shetland which surprises a lot of people. Both are heavily influenced by Norse. Orkney people are often mistaken for Welsh. I like this song on YouTube which is sung in a Shetland accent.

I have an absolutely terrible memory when it comes to real people’s forum names…

Relax. It’s metalheart and piemonster that have met in real life.

Relax. It’s metalheart and piemonster that have met in real life.

Also I am terrible at interpreting forum posts.

😆

Also I am terrible at interpreting forum posts.

But, yet big enough to admit when you’re wrong…

😆 +1

Also, perhaps piemonster was right all along…. 😉

It’s all barely intelligible rambling to me.

See tbh, regarding the Spanish/Portuguese question, I’ve been looking into that a bit more, and really it looks like a dialect! 😆 Apologies to any Portuguese on the forum!

Apparently Portuguese can understand Spanish much better than the Spanish can understand Portuguese. due to the accent mostly. there’s also a Lingua Franca called Portunhol which I didn’t know existed.

So are the Portuguese just the Scots of the Iberian peninsula? 😆 (I know they went independent about 800 years ago, but still)

The dialect with and army and a navy comment, does seem to ring true. (it did get me thinking that comment, so while I haven’t completely changed my mind, it’s an interesting thought.)

According to the census there are over 100 languages spoken daily in the UK. English changes over time; I wonder what we will end up with in a 1000 years.

If Castellan (Standard Spanish) and Catalan are different languages then English and Scots are too.

To be honest I’m not sure it really it matters either way but it strikes me as odd that we would agree that one is a language and not the other. I think there has been a degree of stigmatisation towards regional dialects / languages that is uniquely British almost as if standard English is the only way to speak properly

seosamh77 – Member
See tbh, regarding the Spanish/Portuguese question, I’ve been looking into that a bit more, and really it looks like a dialect! Apologies to any Portuguese on the forum

Now head over to Lisbon and tell them they’re all speaking Spanish!!

I think there has been a degree of stigmatisation towards regional dialects / languages that is uniquely British

Nah, happens all over Europe. At least we still have regional languages. The French almost succeeded in stamping theirs out as deliberate policy.

I generally don’t indulge in poetry, but oddly much of what I like is best with a bot of Doric.

LORNA WALLACES POEM ABOUT DONALD TRUMP

A Scot’s Lament fur her American Fellows (Oan their election of a tangerine gabshite walloper

America, aw whit ye dain?!
How could ye choose a clueless wain
Ti lead yir country? Who wid trust
A man sae vile?!
A racist, sexist eedjit
Wi a shite hairstyle?

Yet lo, ye votit (michty me!)
Ti hawn’ this walloper the key
Ti pow’r supreme, ti stert his hateful,
Cruel regime.
A cling ti hope that this is aw
Jist wan bad dream.

But naw, the nightmare has come true,
A curse upon rid, white an’ blue,
An’ those who cast oot Bernie
Must feel sitch regret
Fur thinkin’ Mrs. Clinton
Was a safer bet.

So noo we wait ti see unfold
Division an’ intolerance, cold;
A pois’nous bigotry untold
Since Hitler’s rule
As the free world’ s hopes an’ dreams
Lie with this fool.

Alas, complainin’ wullnae change
The fact this diddy has free range
Ti ride roughshod ow’r human beings
That fall outside
The cretinous ideals borne of
His ugly pride.

Awch USA, we feel yir woes
An’ pour oor wee herts oot ti those
Who ken this oarange gabshite isnae
Who they chose,
But jist sit tight;
Trump’s cluelessness
Will time expose.

Fur sittin’ there beside Obama
Efter the election drama,
Trump looked like reality
Had finally hit:
Aboot the role of president
He knew Jack shit.

Poutin’, glaikit through this farce,
His mooth wis pursed up like an arse,
His Tangoed coupon glowin’ like
A skelped backside.
Despite all his bravado
Trump looked keen ti hide.

Let’s therefur no despair an’ greet,
Or see this outcome as defeat.
Let’s wait an’ watch this bampot
Flap his hawns an’ squirm
When presidential pressures
Crush him like a worm.

Hawd oan ti values you hold dear,
Don’t let this numpty bring yi fear,
His chants of hatred don’t speak fur
The human race.
Love will endure despite this
Oarange-faced disgrace.

So USA, in ma conclusion,
Know we Scots feel your confusion:
We are also chained ti those
Not of oor choosin’ .
Stand firm fur unity will break
Through Trump’s delusion.