Looking at rail squares for a Festool track.

Seems to be mainly a choice between;

MK2 Rail Square – Festool/Makita
(Looks simple to use, very well made and British by jove)

Or a Festool https://www.axminstertools.com/festool-90-degree-guide-rail-edge-square-fs-wa-90-106849

There is also this https://www.axminstertools.com/festool-fs-wa-angle-stop-for-guide-rails-108320
(Which looks like it’s harder/slower to work with and I’m unconvinced offers much that I’ll actually want, but I’m a newby so don’t really know)

Or perhaps something slightly cheaper https://www.axminstertools.com/tso-products-grs-16-guide-rail-square-104493

In practice, I think the main thing wanted is simplicity of use, any advice from experienced (ish) users?

There’s a fair chance I’m overthinking this.

I just use a speedsquare that I checked was square.

Or…I just place the track against the square line i drew

I’ve got the Benchdogs square.
I also have their parallel guides, all on Makita rails.
I used to have a little Triton square which was ok but obviously nowhere near the same build quality.

The Good
It’s very well made. Lovely solid chunk of ally, beautifully machined.
It’s as square as you trust a rail square.
I can never fully trust a rail square on cuts that matter over a decent distance so I always double check.

I don’t think you can ever completely trust a rail square as to me, there are so many tiny things you can do to affect it, over a distance.

It’s a nice thing though. I love the little slide out tab that supports it on the work. I’ve yet to use any of the actual dog holes as I don’t use a dog system but it’s nice to have them there.

The not Good
The little cam levers that lock it to the rail. OH MY GOD! If they come loose one more time I swear!!!…. 😡
Yeah, I seem to have a lot of issues with the little cam levers coming loose. When you engage them (at least on Makita rails this is) they don’t really have much travel as such, like you expect from a cam that comes in gradually. They’re just…on, or off.
Consequently, the slightest vibration such as using the saw, or putting the rail against the wall temporarily between cuts, will very often cause them to come loose and the rail can slide off onto the floor, or sometimes I’m all set up ready to make the cut and I notice one is loose.
As a result, I constantly have to check they’re tight before EVERY cut.
It’s a total pita.

I contacted Benchdogs and they suggested they might have been assembled wrong (I don’t see how) and sent me some new cams, which I fitted.
Exactly the same…

I think I am going to have to file some material off the cam faces to get a more positive lock.
It’s not what you expect to need to do on a square that costs so much but I have no pleasure in using it because of this.

I did contact them again to say the issue was still there, but got no reply..

You’re looking at two different kinds of think there so what’s important? Some of those option are only a square and give a way of quickly and dependably cutting at 90deg, another can be set to a variety of angles so useful if you’d want to cut repetitions of a particular angle.

People are only really going to comment on  what they’ve got as I double many people will have bought/used more than one option

I’ve got the bench dogs one (for a mafell rail rather than festool) because it give me quick way of getting a reference square edge (ii’m finding many sheet are quite far out of square these days so the need one square cut just to give a reference for marking out) so I keep a rail square attached to a spare section rail  hanging on the edge of my bench and use it to square each board as I start work on it. The the bench dog works welll for that as its absolutely bang on square – each one comes with its own calibration certificate. It only does one job but does it really well. But its not quick-fit so is best left attached to a rail if you are going to use it at all frequently.

I don’t know if the other more quick-release style square are a accurately set once attached. Anything thats adjustable has the capacity to be out of adjustment so how are you going to check that and adjustable square is square and feel certain that its not getting knocked out of square in use?

The the bench dog works welll for that as its absolutely bang on square………….But its not quick-fit

Have you got the mk1 or something? Does it attach differently?.
As I say above, mine uses little cam levers and is certainly quick to fit.
Reliable though it is not!

As josh really. I just draw a line with a roofing square then place the rail on that. Quick, easy and cheap. I was going to make a dedicated rail square from a corner of timber but I’ve not found the need. I find parallel guides far more useful as that is something I do repeat cuts for

You’re looking at two different kinds of think there so what’s important? Some of those option are only a square and give a way of quickly and dependably cutting at 90deg, another can be set to a variety of angles so useful if you’d want to cut repetitions of a particular angle.

Yeh, I’m just in the phase where I’m nosing about looking at options.

The important bit is a dependable 90deg

Probably

I’ve not lost any body parts to this new Router yet btw.

I’m taking each survived week as a win

I have no idea what this post is about tbh, but I did read on another cycling forum that a festool rep had told a poster that festool prices are due to go up 10% very soon / imminently;

“ Quick heads up for anyone considering buying any festool gear. I had a meeting with one of their reps today, apparently they are going to put their prices up a cross the board by at least 10% so if you want some it’ll pay to get it sooner rather than later.”

My square.

LOL

By the way, I’d still recommend it.
Possibly it works better on Festool rails.
If not, I think a bit of careful fettling will solve it.
Disappointing on a premium uk product though.

I got mine from FC Tools as the benchdog one was out of stock.

https://fctools.co.uk/product/fc-festool-rail-square

Although I have the Mafell / Bosch version.

The the bench dog works welll for that as its absolutely bang on square………….But its not quick-fit

Have you got the mk1 or something? Does it attach differently?.
As I say above, mine uses little cam levers and is certainly quick to fit.
Reliable though it is not!

I’m using a different rail – the Mafel rail has two (much slimmer) slots underneath and the Benchdog slots onto both of them,  and the cams also bear in a much slimmer edge. Theres very fine tolerance on the rail’s connection to the slots- takes a bit of care and effort to guide the Benchdog on (I’ve got a rail thats over 10 years old and one thats near new and the although theres no apparent damage on the older one the Bench Dog just won’t attach to it – the fit is very tight. But once on I just tighten the cams and give them a gentle extra little tap with a hammer and all stays put. However – I just leave it on the rail – I’ve only taken it off the rail a couple of times in the last year or so.

Well, it turns out the cut in store plywood I’ve arrived home with, is actually square.

But I need to the cut these into smaller sections so I’m going with a parallel guide before the rail square.

Will I regret buying this instead of a more expensive option?

https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/1003206115/toolcurve-parallel-guides-for-festool?ref=cart

I looked at the Benchdogs and the Festool (TSO under licence I believe).

I didn’t like the cam lock levers on the Benchdogs. It means the registration for square is actually off the relatively small nub that engages in the centre T-slot. I went with the Festool which registers against the back face of the track over the full width of the square.

Previously I had made my own plywood square which has been incredibly accurate. I have attached to a Benchdogs fence to that one, allowing repeat cuts out to 1.2m but it is a bit cumbersome.

Latest purchase has been the TSO parallel guides. This has been a game changer for accuracy on any long narrow cuts. One of the parallel guides is mounted up on the Festool square, which can then be used without the second guide just the same as my homebrew setup to give repeat, measured, 90 degree cuts out to 760mm.

All of these are using Makita track. Strangely I tried some Triton track but the registration wobbled on its contact point with the square. That might indicate that the Benchdogs square is taking registration from a bit of the extruded rail that’s less likely to suffer damage and also implies you need to look after you rails.

I have the benchdog MK2. Very expensive paper weight.

With the Makita track I just can’t get it acceptably square. Over a 1.6m rail it seems to veer 2-3mm inwards. Really not much use at all and I find myself just using a combination square and getting things square and parallel with that.

Just seen your post. Parallel guides are good. Just be aware that the link you posted does not include the Incra track you need. Also you need to resticker the generic Incra track to get a width scale that adds on the width of the track (and a bit). The first comment on the Etsy page explains it all.

The TSO guides I mentioned are lovely but *don’t include the adapters to connect to the track*. So the whole setup is £200 (parallel guides) + ~£94 (cheapest I could find Festool square) + £53 and out of stock for the second attachment. £350 and you’ve got the whole setup including rips, narrow rips and repeat cross cuts.

FWIW, my plywood square is just as accurate for cross cuts and it still gets used for cuts between 760mm and 1200mm. If I’d not been lazy I could have made an adapter for a second fence but the Benchdogs fence is £90 anyway. Everything is money but getting accurate work first time is worth money too.

I have the benchdog MK2. Very expensive paper weight.

With the Makita track I just can’t get it acceptably square. Over a 1.6m rail it seems to veer 2-3mm inwards. Really not much use at all and I find myself just using a combination square and getting things square and parallel with that.

I have a similar experience but I think that it’s more that using a square over that distance off a relatively small contact area is inherently flawed.
It’s too easy as a human to introduce errors I think. The slightest difference in the pressure you apply when seating the square can affect things greatly over that distance.

I don’t think I’d trust it over say 600mm, not without making checks anyway. Kind of defeats the point.

I find the ‘3,4,5 method’ is useful over bigger distances.

I have a TSO and a Benchdogs mk2

I bought the Benchdogs as an upgrade but I’ve never used it after I trial fitted it because I find the TSO quicker, easier to fit and more accurate
Shame because I like Ralph and have a few bits of his kit which I do like

I have a similar experience but I think that it’s more that using a square over that distance off a relatively small contact area is inherently flawed.
It’s too easy as a human to introduce errors I think. The slightest difference in the pressure you apply when seating the square can affect things greatly over that distance.

Yeah definitely, I think I was probably hoping for more out of it. I think it’s harder to seat right than a simple square or combi square though as you need to move the whole rail.

As you point out the little cams are really poor, so it’s not even pleasent, quick or reliable to use for smaller cuts where it might be acceptably square.

It might work really well for someone else but just not for me – will stick on ebay I think and recoup a bit of the cash.

Arguably the worst value tool I’ve ever bought!

I have a similar experience but I think that it’s more that using a square over that distance off a relatively small contact area is inherently flawed.
It’s too easy as a human to introduce errors I think. The slightest difference in the pressure you apply when seating the square can affect things greatly over that distance.

I don’t think I’d trust it over say 600mm, not without making checks anyway. Kind of defeats the point.

Yeah, this was my experience. I bought a Taiga rail square (since gone out of business I think) which came with calibration certificates up the wazoo, but I found that accuracy/repeatability just wasn’t there (was trying to make a couple of floor cabinet carcasses). I don’t think it was the fault of the particular square, I just don’t think they can be that accurate/repeatable for anything other than short cuts.

I’ve since got a MFT top (on a Bora centipede – very good!), and am looking at the Benchdogs fence system – now that they have got a rail-hinge coming out, it’s very tempting

With that, part of me wonders if I should copy Millard and make and MFT with a hinged rail.

With that, part of me wonders if I should copy Millard and make and MFT with a hinged rail.

The hinged rail type thing is great if you’ve got loads of repeat cuts to make, building fitted cabinets or something.
Expensive systems though.

If it’s just the odd cut here and there then a decent square and making checks for square should do just fine I’d have thought.

The instructions for the benchdog square show it being used with the MFT dogs. So you square it using the MFT holes and then use the dogs to square the workpiece.

Not tried this but I’m not 100% confident that the square actually squares with my Makita rails so would be more money down the pan.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0013/3932/6522/files/Instruction_Manual_-_Rail_Square_-_v1.pdf?v=1615800804

If it’s just the odd cut here and there then a decent square and making checks for square should do just fine I’d have thought

This is where I’ve got to as I’m doing one off pieces for my house. Most repeat cuts will be like 3 shelves or 2 sides so little time saved over just being careful with a square and pencil.

Yeh, I’m overthinking it.

I have a work surface I can clamp stops to, both for the panels I’m cutting and for the rail. So long as I make sure it’s set up correctly that’ll give me the repeat cuts I’m after. Might not be “furniture grade” but it should be close enough.

Think I’m going to DIY the square as well following Millards video. Which would give me hands on experience of a square to inform me whether I’d actually get value from an expensive version.