At the train station today they seem to be having a crack down on people without tickets. No problem with that, I buy my season ticket and expect others to do the same.

However normally you’d expect the justice process to be undertaken with all due rights given to the accused who is, after all, innocent until proven guilty. Not place them in full view (and earshot) of the public under a big sign saying “we’re done playing games with fare evaders”.

Smacks to me of an attempt to humiliate and influence the accused’s statement.

meh – they know what they are doing. Effectively they are being subsidised by all the other passengers.

Train into Glasgow this morning, no ticket dude on train, goes through a few unmanned stations, with no ticket machine, so ye get into city and are faced with a 45 minute wait for a ticket to get through ticket checks.

Too right I’d hurdle the **** barrier.

Avoiding ticket collectors is about the best way of spicing up an otherwise dull journey.

I used to get the train to school, so had a season pass. The only thing better than successfully evading the conductor was unsuccessfully evading them, and giving them a second to gloat before handing over the season pass.

“meh – they know what they are doing”

We have courts to determine guilt. It’s part of the whole civilisation thing.

.

Had something similar a few weeks ago, again Chiltern, although I had a valid ticket and Railcard. What they didn’t like is that I had been delayed by (my first train cancelled) so my advance was for a different train than the one I’d got off. Had used advance split tickets (saves about 40%) for this journey and my first train had been cancelled so had got an alternative train and cycled the 2 miles across Birmingham but missed it by 2 mins. Guard on the train had no issue but the jobsworth was very keen to fine me. Ended up getting the rules up and saying if they didn’t let me go (late for work) I’d call the police and they soon let me go. Have since triple checked (online and by phone) and you are allowed to catch a later train when splitting advance tickets if you miss yours due to the first being delayed, and reported the inspector (got his name as he wanted mine).

I think we should ALL fare-evade until the trains start rendering a service that works for people, and at a price they can afford.

That said, like a lamb, I always pay mine.

Smacks to me of an attempt to humiliate

Good. Make committing the crime even less worthwhile. It’s a pretty simple thing to catch people out on, it’s not as if it’s a PACE interview is it?

Last night we were some of those people!
I’ll once again ridicule and moan about how shit public transport is. Yesterday evening we had the pleasure of getting a train back from Birmingham airport to our home town via derby. The mono rail from the airport to birmingham international was awesome, hugely efficient, clean and pretty awesome. On arriving at Birmingham international the train was delayed so it meant we could possibly catch an earlier version in to new street, explained to the barrier girls that we hadn’t yet bought a ticket but we’d do it now, we were given the **** off tablet and were not let through (anyone who’s been to new street knows that you can not get out of that place ticketless without vaulting, my vaulting days are over) so we missed that train. We settled in for a wait and booked the next viable train, it got further and further delayed which meant we would miss our connection to derby, we had another chat with the barrier girls who now didn’t care what train we got, at this point we still hadn’t booked a ticket for the final part of the journey as it was double the cost to do so with the tickets we’d chosen. Got the derby train with 2 mins spare, and managed to get the connection with 5 to spare. Didn’t pay for that bit. Should we be shamed in public?

Peterborough to Hereford on the train this afternoon.

4 and a half hours ( of total dullness!) and not a single ticket check on the train.

The barriers will catch me though.

(Company stumped up the £150 fare)

Railway companies have bye-laws as the routes were all granted by Parliamentary Act which is why when they catch you evading they do what they do.

“Make committing the crime even less worthwhile”

Again, a crime has not necessarily been committed. See above for examples.

“it’s not as if it’s a PACE interview”

Clearly not. But why should private police forces be exempt from PACE?
(OK, I’m stretching this for effect, but thr point remains).

For all their many faults, Northern Rail are pretty chill about letting you pay on train/at other end.

They daren’t be otherwise really I suppose.

Nope barriers all open!

We have courts to determine guilt. It’s part of the whole civilisation thing.

I didn’t realise it was necessary to take someone to court to determine if they had a ticket.

Not every crime ends up in court, speeding for example, but you can defend or appeal in court. No ticket is pretty good start to having no ticket.

I didn’t bother with a ticket on my train journey the other week as I was running late the only time I’ve not had a ticket, it’s the only time I’ve been checked on my return. I paid for my ticket. Sorted.

I used to do a mix of train/bike commuting sometimes. Ride in then get the train all or part way home. Often it was weather dependent – nice morning and rainy afternoon was an easy way of still getting a ride in but then avoiding getting too wet by jumping on the train home.

The off-road route to work was nice in the morning but then riding out in the evening, the canal towpaths of Manchester were often a bit “scally” – the drug dealers had woken up by that time – so I used to jump on the train sometimes, head out most of the way and then pick up the towpath at the nice bit.

Anyway, the station near work was literally just two platforms. No ticket machines or barriers or anything. So I got on the train one night with the CX, got off a few stops later and there were inspectors at the exit. No problem, I walked up with the correct fare in cash in my hand and asked for a single ticket.

Immediately got the third degree – why hadn’t I bought a ticket at the station (no machine, no option to do so), why hadn’t I gone to find the guard on the train (oh yeah, leave my bike and walk in cleats down a packed train – besides it was a 4-carriage Pacer so two seperate trains, guard in the last carriage, me in the front), why had I tried to leave the station (I’m not, I’m walking up to you with the correct change and asking for a ticket). They were really rude and I ended up putting a formal complaint in against them. Must have cost Northern far more to issue the paperwork and go through all the motions than just accepting the cash. Which they didnt get at all in the end as they waived the fare due to the complaint. 🙂

For all their many faults, Northern Rail are pretty chill about letting you pay on train/at other end.

They daren’t be otherwise really I suppose.

Usually yes. Not this time though!

Train into Glasgow this morning, no ticket dude on train, goes through a few unmanned stations, with no ticket machine, so ye get into city and are faced with a 45 minute wait for a ticket to get through ticket checks.

Too right I’d hurdle the **** barrier

While I agree there are a few stations still without ticket machines (a FEW), it takes 2mins to download the Scotrail app to buy tickets with.

Not having a ticket is quite hard these days. It’s not just not having a piece of paper. Apart from the complex fare rules there’s Oyster, email tickets, mobile phone apps, train company smart cards. And then, in London, there’s always an “xxx is broken, tickets being accepted on national rail” in force somewhere.

I can give you a new game and take on this .. recently had the local train militia – We’d like to check your ticket (no please, but Im ok with that got ticket) OK says me – can I see your ID please?

The person was gobsmacked and I quote “Look mate I’m the one stood here with a yellow vest on asking you” OK Dude but I’m the one being asked to hand over my documents to a random bloke in a £5 ikea jacket as far as I know.

Happy to share with you, but your ID please … guy grumpily rifles through jacket shows ID, I hand ticket smile and depart.

I have no issue with it at all, but if you’re going to inconvenience my life then expect the same.

James

The queues at Queen St can be bad. I have the Scotrail app and the smart card so I can buy online and download to the card. Trouble is, half the time, the guard can’t read the smart card due to technology issues.

“Not every crime ends up in court, speeding for example, but you can defend or appeal in court.”

For a speeding ticket you get a letter through the post or, very infrequently, a conversation in the back of the police car. You don’t get paraded through the town in tar and feathers first.

Usually yes. Not this time though!

I guess the ticket checking gestapo are under orders to be more strict. The normal staff always seem slightly embarrassed to be asking.

I just got a smart card, hardly anyone can read the thing and if they can it takes ages – so I just get waved through.

You don’t get paraded through the town in tar and feathers first.

Well that’s not exactly what happened there either. Still could be worse you could have someone taking your photo and posting it on the internet.

Switzerland take the approach seen in the OP, but completely at random, all the time, at any time, gestapo-in-civies ticket inspectors. As soon as the doors close and you can’t get off.. “tickets please”

No matter how good your excuse (heavily pregnant mother with 2 toddlers in tow, very elderly couple struggling to get on and find a seat, kids just getting out of school and barely making the bus/train, pissing rain/snow, tourist with no idea how the machines work etc), if you’ve not got the right documents, all the offenders get off at the next stop with the guards, and are fined. If you actually do have the appropriate documents, but forgot them – its up to you go to the office to claim your mistake and get your money back.

In one sense – its completely fair. It doesn’t matter who/what you are, same rule applies. Its the shame of it that is almost more impactful than the fine.

However – jeez-oh, it may be consistent, but my god its inhumane. Which basically describes Switzerland 🙂

Oh, and I’ll add – if you have the app but it the ticket time stamp shows that you bought out even a second after the vehicle started moving – fine.

Charming.

I bought a half price ticket by mistake during one of my many trips to Verbier, the conductor explained in broken English thanks to my very broken french what I’d done and just charged me the other half. Went on her way with a lovely smile.

Very unusual, good for you

“Well that’s not exactly what happened there either”

Of course it’s hyperbole, but the same principle.

“Still could be worse you could have someone taking your photo and posting it on the internet.”

Thank you for spelling out the point! Still, if those people had cared that much they could have taken their activities inside the office next door rather than make a song and dance about it.

In the future all civil matters will be dealt with by this guy and rightly so!

The poorest/ne’er-do-well’s should be punished by death, while the CEO’s and financial fraudsters get banished to the Caribbean colonies for a nice tax free cocktail and cruise!

Couldn’t give a shit about any businesses “Revenue Protection” private security and kangaroo court, let alone overpriced poorly performing ones!

Never used to pay for a ticket when i occasionally jumped a train home from work with the bike (normally when it was pissing it down)

Journey was 3 stops long, stops quite close so guard didn’t really have time to patrol the carriages and even if they did they didn’t always ask to see a ticket and if they did you could just say sorry i didn’t have time and they would let you buy one from them

Ticket barrier at departing station was always open, arriving station had no ticket barriers, just steps on to the bridge which then gave you 3 exits to the street

On the rare occasion they put a ticket inspector on the platform exit or by the bridge steps you could just use the lift or other set of steps that took you to the other platform and if that platform’s exit had a ticket inspector you just jumped on the next train to go back one station which was unmanned 24/7 and then just rode a couple of miles back to the arriving station

I’m surprised they have never tightened this up and it must get abused by people every day, even if they refused to let you buy a ticket on the train and issued a fine it was only a £20 fine

This guy is some kind of press officer for TFL and has dished .

Tweet from John Bull (@garius)
John Bull (@garius) Tweeted:
@2AvSagas Fare evasion is fascinating and TfL have done a bunch of interesting papers on it over the years. And the London lessons are very applicable to NY. Let me grab my laptop and a beer from the hotel bar and I’ll do a quickly summary of findings. https://twitter.com/garius/status/1186342186062925826?s=17

Couldn’t give a shit about any businesses “Revenue Protection” private security and kangaroo court, let alone overpriced poorly performing ones!

How much dodging would they need to do before you would care?
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/dec/15/ca-ban-43000-fare-dodger-financial-services-industry-blackrock-jonathan-burrows

I’d be very careful about rail fare evasion these days. It’s quite easy to end up with a criminal record and/or a fine issued by the courts in the high hundreds. There’s a large forum which is predominantly for trainspotters and those of us ‘on the spectrum’ (so not unlike STW!) but it has an interesting section on ‘disputes and prosecutions’ which is well frequented by panicking desperate individuals who, say, had the audacity to get on a train without a ticket for whatever reason and are now facing big problems.

Last time I went on Chiltern Railways I was in the seat behind some over privileged idiot (backed up by a significant proportion of others in the carriage) who was giving the guard grief because the train had been delayed 15minutes by someone who had just attempted to jump under the train (Who was luckily pulled out unhurt but had to be restrained to stop him doing it again).

Apart from it being something outside the guard’s control what made it worse was the guard was clearly still in shock because he was the one who had had to pull the attempted suicide out (I guess at the time believing he was about to find someone who had succeeded) and restrain him till the transport police turned up.

Working every day with idiots who treat you like dirt, I’d take great pleasure in humiliating the ones who haven’t even paid for the privilege.

I had an OBS try to sell me a ticket which would have been invalid, for 2 different reasons (he was trying to save me money by splitting my ticket, however my train doesn’t stop at the station the split was for, and one leg was only valid on a different TOC to mine). He explained that he didn’t care, I pointed out that the chap on my return journey may not be so understanding and that I’d just like the ticket I asked for. He meant well, but I’d not be surprised if some got caught out by his good intentions.

As for the OP I’m fine with it. It’s not rocket surgery. Most ‘justifications’ for not having them are generally just excuses.

I have no issue with it at all, but if you’re going to inconvenience my life then expect the same.

Srsly? They’re just doing their job. Why be a massive bell end about it?

I was on a train from Oslo to Bodo (going to Lofoten Islands), after a couple of hours tickets gets checked – guard then checks teenager guy next to us – no ticket – heated discussion follows – next thing the train stops as some kind of halt, not a station by any means, just a place to stop, genuinely in the middle of nowhere, and the teenager gets lobbed off into the wilderness – jeepers , those guys take it seriously

OK Dude but I’m the one being asked to hand over my documents

It’s your train ticket ffs, not handing over your passport to UAE authorities

I only ever use my local branch-line and the guards always prefer it if you pay on the train as they like they say ‘it keeps me in a job mate!’.

On a recent trip to Glasgow I understood how you can travel for free if you’ve got the time. Two rough looking blokes at Preston, stinking of booze (morning after) got on the train and sat at the very front of the quiet carriage next to the engine. When the inspector came one got up, brushed past and went into the bog. Inspector clocks him and waits outside then insists on seeing his imaginary ticket, of course there’s no ticket so he turfs them both off at Carlisle. So they’ve made it almost to Glasgow. They get off and no doubt they’ll try the same trick until they arrive at Glasgow.