Hi,

Thinking of a building up a new HT.
Currently have a 2011 genesis core 20, which is great but just fancy a change. Nothing at all wrong with the genesis but when you see a few builds on here the itch for something new starts!

Been looking around, and like the look of the soul and isn’t massively heavy for steel. But then the ragley are also a really nice looking bike!

My genesis is a 19″, but puts me at 6ft right in the crossovers for both bikes in terms of frame sizes?

Going to be used for mainly singletrack, but also enjoy the ups oddly. So would be looking for something for putting a speed in uphill.

Any suggestions on new bike? Or do I pimp out the genesis with lighter wheels and a bit of carbon?!!

Phil

If there is nothing wrong with your current frame then I’d spend the money on components first and then when you’re flush again get the frame later on.

Taking my Marley out for its first ride round the Surrey hills tomorrow. It seems really light for a hard hitting bike. I will try to remeber to report back. 🙂

If there are any Souls left at £375…Id by that first tbh.

BluePig would seem more comparable to a Cotic BFe, I looked at the Ragley before getting the BFe. I’ve never understood why the Soul costs more, I suggest you have a look at that also, love mine.

Soul (I’ve had two over the past ten years) is the best hardtail I’ve ever had – and it excels at climbing.

The Ragley’s have some nice features absent from the cotic frames and it isnt clear why the cotics cost more? They likely come off the same production line 😉

There’s more love for the cotic brand on here but that accounts for nothing.

I really enjoy my 150mm 1×9 Piglet.

For an aggressive hardtail you cant look further than a blue pig. Had a soul and loved it. Built up a blue pig with a single front ring 9 speed affair. Flys up and down everything and mega accurate.

I wouldnt look further than a blue pig with a nice set of 150mm forks.

spectabilis – Member

The Ragley’s have some nice features absent from the cotic frames and it isnt clear why the cotics cost more?

The Soul’s a much higher quality product- better finish, and more expensive steel which is what really defines their ride. QC seems also far better (only one of the three taiwanese Ragleys I had should have ever left the factory to be quite frank, I had one bent one and one badly painted one)

But… They’re pretty different bikes. If you want a harder core ride, the Ragleys come into their own, if you want a superior allrounder that’s the Soul. Neither does anything the other can’t do but they have different focus. So just decide what you want.

FWIW, former Soul owner and known Cotic fanboi but now Ragley Ti owner- and it’s the only hardtail I’ve ever ridden that I can say is as good. Both masterpieces, really.

I’m guessing the Marley is just the Alu version of the BluePig, as they seem very similar.

I’m looking for an all rounder really, not going to be chucking it off massive jumps. But don’t want to think I can’t batter it into rocks without a worry, as I’m not overly careful!!

he Soul’s a much higher quality product- better finish, and more expensive steel which is what really defines their ride.

Some may not say much…..

4130 n I’m ok for hours.

I’m guessing the Marley is just the Alu version of the BluePig, as they seem very similar.

Alu version of Piglet.

So is the BluePig more suited to downs and the piglet all rounder? Quite similar specs on geometry?

philb88 – Member

But don’t want to think I can’t batter it into rocks without a worry, as I’m not overly careful!!

I beat the bejeezus out of my old pre-cen soul, basically learned to ride on it, the new ones are stronger yet. I think the fact they make the BFe too confuses people a bit, but it’s for proper horrible abuse.

So is the BluePig more suited to downs and the piglet all rounder? Quite similar specs on geometry?

Possbly yeah, depending on build really, but both climb rather well considering how well they go down.
The 2nd gen Piglet is very similar to the Pig , the Piglet topping out at 130 /150mm forks depending on headset etc the Pig can go 160.

I was in a very similar situation as you. Had a 2010 Genesis Core 20 and decided to buy a Cotic Soul when they reduced them to £375. Very happy so far!!

Dialled alpine? I have one and a soul and it’s very nice

They’re £375 at the moment, that’s what’s tempting me!
Although the blue pig is down to £250!

Did you transfer across your genesis parts, or do a complete new build?

My Blue Pig, it’s HEAVY! It gets better the steeper it gets, hard work on the climbs though due to its weight.

I transferred all the genesis parts over except the headset and seatpost.Running it as a cheap 1×9 at the moment, using the front mech as a chain guide. Did have to buy some extra gear outer cable to set up the rear mech though.
It will stay like this for while until I slowly buy new/better drivetrain components to convert to 1×10.

If you’re looking for some idea of size, I’m 6ft and have an 18″ Marley, long TT so no need to go up a size.

Here is mine. Excuse the long steerer, still playing around with an ideal height.

The Soul is probably the best choice for climbing, the Piglet for a bit of everything and the BP for more of a descending bias.

I have a BPX with a dual position 120/150mm Rev which climbs better than its descending suggests it should (if that makes sense?). Given how things have changed with the Piglet and BP I’d personally go for a Piglet if choosing now. Again with a dual position/TALAS/U-turn fork as slack bikes aren’t the best climbers. I mainly ride rocky XC in the Peak where the descents are quite involved but you have to work back up to ride between them.

My BPX is a little over 28lbs with a dropper (planning to drop a little weight in future via the wheels and seatpost). The slackness and give in the rear triangle compliment the sturdy front end so it’s comfy but manages to see me getting through rock gardens faster than I’d expected. CRC has Piglets pretty cheap at the moment.

Give a Piglet a go . Put the money saved from not going the cotic route towards some components.

.

The more I see the differnt options, the more confusing it gets!!
I was swaying more towards the Cotic, but those Pigs look good!

Ragley is a simple choice size wise, as the 18″ is perfect size with a short stem.

The Soul is trickier. The M has a 594mm TT and L 610mm, and my Genesis a 595mm TT.
So at just 6ft, or shy a few mm im stuck. As I don’t want a Smaller frame and have to run a 100mm stem! Any ideas?

Large Cotic for sure. HTH

If you are near the Peak District you can get a Cotic demo at 18 Bikes in Hope or email Cy/ Paul as to when next Cotic demo day is. You are not alone in being confused, I started looking at Pig/Piglet as I did a ride with a Pig owner whi did all the steep stuff and gaps that the FS riders did and my LBS stocked them. In the end I bought a BFe and. Prince Albert Classic as I couldn’t decide between the two. The Cotic has been so good I’ve not built up PAC yet but thats the next project on my list. Truthis there are lots of good bikes out there.

This winds me up. The average adult male falls directly between a medium and a large frame so always has to buy a frame thats too small or too large. why don’t frame manufaturers make frames to fit the majority of their customers? Small frame size centred over the female average at around 5’5″ and medium over male average at 5’10”.
http://www.usablestats.com/lessons/normal

This winds me up. The average adult male falls directly between a medium and a large frame so always has to buy a frame thats too small or too large. why don’t frame manufaturers make frames to fit the majority of their customers? Small frame size centred over the female average at around 5’5″ and medium over male average at 5’10”.

Boo hoo, that’s your own fault for just being “average”

I’m 5’9 with short legs so feel more comfortable aboard an 18″ frame but means when stood astride my spuds gently nestle the top tube.

Also means I can only use a 100mm dropper.

A 17″ frame would be perfect for me.

Had my first ride on the Marley yesterday round the Surrey hills. Have to say I was mighty impressed, nothing seems to phase it, roots, rocks, drops, jumps, switchbacks, anything. Rode very much like my Orange Blood which is extremely composed at speed and loves being in the air. Except of course very light in comparison and a harsher but not overly harsh back end.

All in all, definately recommend the Marley

Oh yeah I am 6ft also and it is the medium which was perfect with a 50mm stem and 780mm low rise bar.

I@m 6ft. I liked my medium Mmmbop despite it being too small…

but my large Blue Pig rides a lot nicer.

I would take the steel pig over the alloy Marley just for the feel of steel (of which of course there is no magic feel of steel and its all in the riders head etc 🙄 ).

People keep saying that the Ragleys climb ‘surprisingly well’, they actually climb brilliantly, it’s because the seat tube is steep, canted forward, so your weight sits over the front of the bike on climbs, so it’s not really a surprise at all.

Ragleys are slack up front, which is why they’re composed going down, but a Blue Pig is a fair bit heavier and chunkier than a Soul, which makes it feel, ime anyway, a bit trundly and uninterested on flatter stuff – I wouldn’t buy a Blue Pig for singletrack unless it was mostly all downhill stuff. I’d say the Soul makes more sense for flatter/rolling stuff.

I’ve not ridden a Marley. I do have an Mmmbop as a winter hack trail thing and it’s a blast, but quite harsh. If the Marley is basically an ally Piglet, I guess it would be a decent all-rounder and slacker than a Soul, but for ‘niceness’ , I reckon the Soul would win out. Or a Piglet if you’re not concerned about branding…

No-one’s mentioned the Stanton Slackline yet, which seems like a good somewhere between the two choice based on what people say about it anyway.

Not sure if that makes sense, but the Soul and the Ragley stuff are kind of different, I’d say the latter is more of a blunt weapon, sort of, though the Ti for my money ticked just about every box I can think of. 🙂

The Pig/Bop/Etc is a ridiculously good technical climber, with a sticky tyre on the back I can get mine up things I wouldn’t even bother trying on most bikes- and no fannying around with uturns or anything either. I’d be lying if I said I know why, though. At least partly motivation, it’s just fun to kick it hard up a hill. Not IMO especially good at mile-munching climbs but certainly not a problem.

Would never get a Ragley after the trouble my mate had. First frame had a faulty seat tube so sent it back for replacement. They kept promising to send a new one but then made excuse after excuse. He got his new frame around a year later, when they’d changed the design. That one had an oval head tube…….

Probably better now but reputations stick and with so much choice I’d be going for a Cotic all day long over a Ragley.

My blupig is a great ride, I’m 6ft with a 33″ inside leg and mine is a large I believe. Great fun on downhills and climbing really isn’t a chore.

My only gripe would be the paint finish was pretty poor but other than that it’s good.

Having said that I took it apart last night cause I just got a nukeproof mega tr 🙂

If CRC had the 18″ BluePig in stock may well of just gone for it!

But the Cotic in Orange is so tempting at £375!!

abductee – Member
This winds me up. The average adult male falls directly between a medium and a large frame so always has to buy a frame thats too small or too large. why don’t frame manufaturers make frames to fit the majority of their customers? Small frame size centred over the female average at around 5’5″ and medium over male average at 5’10”.
http://www.usablestats.com/lessons/normal

Cotic peg the medium Soul as suiting riders form 5’9″ to 6’0″. Sounds bang on to me.

Im 5’11.5 and medium soul with a 70mm stem is a perfect fit. It feels fairly long compared to most bikes ive tried, i would be wary of going for a large, defo get a demo if you can.

Yeah, I’m 5’10 and medium Cotics (and Ragleys) both fit like really odd shaped metal gloves. Not sure why it’s a thing?