Raaw vs sentinel vs rocketmax

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  • Raaw vs sentinel vs rocketmax
  • Gotama
    Member

    Interested in views from those that have ridden the above, particularly if you’re at the heavier end. I’m about 100kg and would be on the XL size for all three. Also looking at the new nukeproof mega 290.

    Based on numbers alone the Raaw looks great but reviews suggest it is simply machine for going flat out with little interest in tight twisty corners. Short chainstays on the transition would imply it’s possibly more playful but again reviews suggest a straight line flat out machine.

    Demo booked on Cotic for end of Jan but slightly concerned about the leverage ratio for my weight, coil is a no no and would need more than the DB Inline. That said Cy’s blurb on the website suggests it’s quite a fun, poppy ride.

    Geometron is too long in front centre and too slack for me.

    New privateer also caught my eye but the low price has, for no real logical reason, made me skeptical.

    Looking for a bike to take to Revolution, Alps, finale etc.

    marksnook
    Member

    Can’t comment on the raaw but I tested a sentinel before I tested my rocketmax. I wasn’t overly into it, it rode well, both up and down. It just didn’t blow me away like the rocketmax did.
    For some reason ive never been able to work out I loved the transition patrol but not the sentinel.
    I demoed my rocketmax with an air shock but bought it coil which I kind of regret. I think it rode better with air. I’m only a short ass at 5’8” And riding a medium. It is a mega fun bike though and although trucks through anything you can throw at it I don’t find it too dull

    Raaw is made for Finale, even named after the trails there. They have a new option on frames and builds (you need to email them) for a longer stroke shock and different linkage for heavier riders

    I was close to buying one, of those you mention it would be my choice

    (The Geometron G1 is awesome, BTW)

    rob8624
    Member

    Ordered a Privateer, not sure what is low price about £1400 for the frame!

    Gotama
    Member

    (The Geometron G1 is awesome, BTW

    They’re lovely bikes, I used to have a G13, but when it gets steep and scary I don’t tend to commit to the front enough so the longer front centre and slacker head angle is more of a hindrance than a help. The Longest size felt much better on the downs but because the seat angle is so steep it makes the seated pedalling position too cramped.

    Premier Icon stewartc
    Subscriber

    Ex Sentinel owner, 94kg, it’s not a pedal friendly bike and I did find it hard work on my local trails were theres a lot of crunchy climbs (usualy in a very humid climate) before it got into its element, chunky downhill fun that belies its 140mm travel.
    Cant comment on the others but currently on a Megatower which is a revelation for its climbing a ability, it’s no slouch elsewhere either and I’m now taking it out on treks usualy reserved for the Tallboy.

    Gotama
    Member

    Damn, I knew someone would pop up with a favourable review of the megatower 🙂

    Given I can’t sort a test ride I think the sentinel is being ruled out.

    Premier Icon beamishblue
    Subscriber

    I might be selling an XL Rocketmax if you’re interested? It has a Cane Creek Double Barrel air shock. I’m slightly heavier than you and it works brilliantly. PM me if you’re interested.

    Gotama
    Member

    Beamish – just messaged.

    Gotama

    They’re lovely bikes, I used to have a G13, but when it gets steep and scary I don’t tend to commit to the front enough so the longer front centre and slacker head angle is more of a hindrance than a help. The Longest size felt much better on the downs but because the seat angle is so steep it makes the seated pedalling position too cramped.

    Interesting. The G1 is a few mm shorter and has a higher front end, it feels a little different. It corners better than a G13 even with the much slacker front end and bigger forks (160mm vs 140mm n my G13, and 62.5 vs 64/65 ish)

    Gotama
    Member

    Interesting. The G1 is a few mm shorter and has a higher front end, it feels a little different. It corners better than a G13 even with the much slacker front end and bigger forks (160mm vs 140mm n my G13, and 62.5 vs 64/65 ish)

    Sorry, i wasn’t clear there. I was referring to the G1 rather than the G13. The G1 is so much more eager to corner than the G13 and just feels like a much better bike overall. The EXT shock is amazing as well, far far better than the Float X i had on the G13 which i had to pump up to max pressure to get the sag right. However, for me, the XL front centre is too long when combined with the slack head angle. In panic situations i don’t weight the front sufficiently. The Longest size with a 515 reach feels great on the downs but it feels like my knees are hitting the bars when seated pedalling and thats coming from someone who likes a short tt.

    Hob Nob
    Member

    So I can answer on a couple of these, as I went from a Sentinel to a Raaw.

    On paper, the Sentinel was amazing, and fit wise, it was great. But, it was a bike that I really didn’t like riding. The rear suspension used all of its travel, all of the time, whilst still managing to feel surprisingly harsh. Never ridden a bike where I’ve blown my feet off the pedals so much before. Totally felt like the back end couldn’t keep up with the front. Despite the nice geo, it was sloggy on the climbs also. Ended up being a nothing bike to me, and found a Raaw for sale which on paper was fairly similar geo but had the travel to back up the size, so went for it.

    My short review is, if you have the terrain & you want a bike to ride fast & smash through everything, I’m not sure there is much better. It is an outright race bike IMO. It’s big, it’s long, it’s stable & it wants to go fast, really fast. I had mine set up with a 170mm fork and 60mm stroke rear shock which made it 170 rear too. The geometry works well for climbing and it belies it’s size in that area. Reliability was spot on, after nearly a year of riding and racing, I touched nothing, the bearings were immaculate & it was totally bomb proof. But then it weighed enough you would kind of expect it to be.

    As you have identified, it certainly doesn’t shine in tight tech. Mine has since gone to pastures new as despite my desire to go fast, the only time I used it was abroad really, for pretty much everything in the UK my SB130 is a better bike, and to be fair, gave up surprisingly little in Finale this year compared to the Raaw.

    Would I have another? Probably not to be fair, it was a great bike, and maybe if I had the terrain it would make more sense, but I don’t, I live in the south of England, so 90% of my time I was on the little bike, and because I rode it so much I was more confident on it & don’t have to deal with that awkward acclimatisation period swapping between bikes.

    Ultimately I think I’m consistently faster on the SB, and it’s easier to ride faster too. The Raaw really needed me to be on my A game to be working well.

    Premier Icon howsyourdad1
    Subscriber

    Sentinel smashed everyone at this years trans provence. 41 riders on megatowers, no one could beat Marco on his 140mm shredstick.

    Saying that i’d look at a privateer!

    Gotama
    Member

    Thanks HobNob, appreciate the detailed reply and kind of sums up what i thought about the Raaw.

    Hob Nob
    Member

    No problem, just read it back and it probably sounds a little harsh on it, but I didn’t intend it to be so – it’s unashamedly a big mountain bike to be fair 🙂

    I think if I was in that market again the Privateer might be tough to look past now, amazing how we see a £1400 frame and think ‘cheap’ compared to most other stuff. The new Enduro is a bit like the Raaw, an outright monster truck which just felt like a lighter version. Certainly interesting. The Megatower I couldn’t get on with at all. Just felt like a long travel, heavy trail bike to me, even more so with the new Hightower.

    Not really considered the Cotic, the weird bottle mounts put me off to be fair – might be worth considering the Stanton as well if you like the idea of that?

    Gotama

    Sorry, i wasn’t clear there. I was referring to the G1 rather than the G13

    No worries, thought you were talking G13, you’ve clearly had a good go on a G1

    pigyn
    Member

    Feedback from our customers has been great about the Sentinel, possibly one of our most popular bikes ever. Very fast in the right hands too.

    Chuck another one in, you seen the Guerilla Gravity Smash? About 500 reach in size 4, as you are 100kg you would really suit the linkage, it’s tuned for hard riding and is pretty progressive, works well with coil out the box and has multiple linkage settings. Building up our demo bike this week but I can’t ride it, off the bike. Very upset 😂
    Pricing is £2750+ depending on shock, for a USA made carbon frame.

    Hob Nob
    Member

    Would also say of my close riding group in the last 12 months, The three people on Transitions have all broken them, and all waited months for replacements.

    I’d be looking at something with a coil shock at 100kgs. Friends who are that sort of weight have been much happier on coils than air shocks.

    JP

    Premier Icon howsyourdad1
    Subscriber

    @hobnob what transitions and where did they break?  I know about  the chainstay issues on the older models

    Would also say of my close riding group in the last 12 months, The three people on Transitions have all broken them, and all waited months for replacements.

    I know of a couple of Patrols that have broken at the same place on the chainstays. 2017 models, I believe.

    JP

    Some of the older Coverts broke at the chain stay because riders were running 203 rotors & bike limit was 183

    Premier Icon joebristol
    Subscriber

    With considering a Bird AM160 or AM9 perhaps? Both have a long reach for their size, but for a big bike they still will do mundane trails. They do flatten out trails that aren’t steep / fast / gnar though – like any slack / low / long bike.

    Probably cheaper than all the other options above for frame only. The AM160 has quite a progressive linkage too (not sure how the AM9 is) so I’d imagine it would suit a heavier rider ok. I’m about 80kgs or so (at 5’9) running a RS deluxe rt3 shock with a Megneg and I think it’s got about 200 ish psi in it and no bottomless tokens at present. The Megneg currently has 2 bands in the negative spring bit.

    Hob Nob
    Member

    2 x Sentinel Carbons & 1 x Patrol Carbon, all 2019 frames.

    One of the Sentinels the linkage & seatstays cracked, also has massive amounts of play. Second Sentinel broke on the front triangle by the lower shock mount.

    Patrol cracked on the NDS seat stay and chain stay.

    Premier Icon howsyourdad1
    Subscriber

    Carbon doesnt count 😃

    Premier Icon cy
    Subscriber

    Firstly, thanks for the interest in the RocketMAX. As for coil, I would disagree that they’re a ‘must have’ for heavier riders as they use up the travel more easily than an air shock. It’s about the type of air shock. The smaller can shocks can run out of puff for larger fellas, but we find riders are much, much happier on the big can DB Air CS piggyback shock than the coil. They can adjust it properly and easily, you can still play with the air volume to get the feel you want, and the big air volume means they run fine. The air pressure goes down around 40% on the piggyback shock, so even if you’re big enough to be pushing the inline shock into the high 200s psi, you’ll be around 160-170psi on the Air CS. At 85kg myself on an XL RocketMAX I run about 220psi in an inline shock, I only have 135psi in an Air CS. Having tried all the other options, the only time I felt any level of advantage on the coil was on slow, steep techincal climbs where you could feel the sensitively. Once you’re trucking it’s not something I notice. We can chat more about it on the demo.

    diplomatt
    Member

    Happy RocketMAX XL owner here.

    Re. the bottle cage position that Hob Nob mentioned – on an XL you can run a side loading cage on the down tube by using the lower cable guide for one mount and a Zefal Gizmo for the other.

    alpin
    Member

    Has anyone ridden the Privateer? What’s the deal with 27.5″/29″…? Are they talking 27,5+ or normal tyres?

    marksnook
    Member

    I thought the privateer thing was the small size is 27.5, the rest 29? I could be wrong though! Hmm maybe I better look!

    alpin
    Member

    I have looked but can’t find anything about it in press releases…

    marksnook
    Member

    Just looked now, it lists wheel size as 27.5” on size 1. 29” on size 2,3 and 4.
    I’m not smart enough to post a link but there is a geometry chart on the privateer bikes website

    zezaskar
    Member

    To all interested, Raaw is releasing the Madonna V2. You can check it on Enduro-mtb latest issue.

    Seems they tweaked the geo a little and parted ways with the welded top tube (which I never understood why it came in the first place)

    Premier Icon Sir HC
    Subscriber

    https://raawmtb.com/pages/madonna-v2

    Interesting what they’ve done. Its a bit on the weighty side.

    the00
    Member

    yet lighter than the v1.
    Transition is not light either…
    nor the Cotic

    zezaskar
    Member

    Worth mentioning that the 2.299€ price being published doesn’t include the shock

    Premier Icon Bigmantrials
    Subscriber

    I was recently looking into very similar types of bike, Sentinal and Rocketmax were both on my radar. I ended up going for a Last Glen, albeit without a demo but it hasn’t disapointed at all.

    Considering the additional wheelbase length over the smuggler I had previously (60mm+) it doesn’t feel any less manouevrable, the longer chainstays make it feel alot more balance too. Its a 140mm rear and can take a 160mm fork (I am about to up my 36 from 150 – 160), progressive shock curve suggests it will work well with a coil (on the list to try).

    I am 6ft4 and over 100kg and riding their XXL.

    If I was look again now and had a fork that would go to 170mm I would be very tempted by the Privateer, geometry is quite similar to the Glen just longer travel.

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