Lock down ponderings and looking at endless different bikes to buy, none of which I will have left me puzzled with 2 brands in particular, I’m sure there is, but I can’t see a reason behind the huge price differences apart from the fork included.

Ibis Hakka MX £2099
Ibis DV9 £1349
Santa Cruz Stigmata £2199
Santa Cruz Chameleon C £1399

Maybe there is but it’s late and I can’t a see a reason why. Anyone able to offer an explanation here 🤔😊

Santa Cruz have 3 levels of frame.  CC (expensive carbon), C (less expensive carbon), Alloy.  I assume the Stigmata is a CC,  you list the Chameleon as a C (which is normally sold only as a full build) so I assume it’s a new frame which was stripped (for some reason) and being sold at a lower cost than the CC.  I bought my Bronson C frame this way from a main dealer for significantly less than the CC.

Daft question but why would there be any real similarities in the price? They’re not the same thing, they’ve got different markets they’ll sell in differing volumes.

The only thing they have in common is the brand. You may as well ask why a t4 costs lots more than a polo.

Santa Cruz have 3 levels of frame

I didn’t realise this, yes the Stigmata is CC, the Chameleon is a C and readily available as a frame only on Stif.

Daft question but why would there be any real similarities in the price?

Because they are both rigid frames essentially, would there be that much difference between the 2, genuine question. Also I did say it was late and as you suggested why does the t4 cost more? 😉

I can’t see a reason behind the huge price differences

They’re profiteering capitalists picking every last scrap of flesh off the bones of the proleteriat.

Well you’re comparing gravel framesets and MTB frames, the hakka mx comes with an enve fork which probably explains some of the price Difference similarly the stigmata includes a fork plus its santa cruz so…

But yeah, you literally get more carbon fibre the more you spend. What’s the issue?

would there be that much difference between the 2,

You mean to design, test manufacture and supply?

Probably not, though I’d imagine the sales numbers on the stigmata will be lower so they would need to sell at a higher price to recoup the initial costs. (how high those are is a different but altogether irrelevant consideration).

However sales price isn’t directly linked to cost. Things are priced based on what [manufacturers/retailers think] people will pay so a niche poseur ornament like a gravel bike will be priced higher than a MTB because people looking at one are going to buy a “SC gravel bike” that matches their carefully selected le col outfit fairly irrelevant of cost rather than “a gravel bike” that other people ride.

The MTB has more competition at that end of the market so needs to be priced differently to attract buyers.

However sales price isn’t directly linked to cost. Things are priced based on what [manufacturers/retailers think] people will pay….

+1 ,supply and demand.

The Hakka Mx has, I was told by our lbs, very hard to get hold of, especially small ones . Mrs kilo would probably have bought one by now if she’d been able to demo it

The CX/Gravel bikes (for both) are also frame & fork. The others are frame only.

This is generally what I thought but it was late, I’d spent all day in front of the screen with work and my mind definitely wasn’t working at all. I can’t even blame drink.

But yeah, you literally get more carbon fibre the more you spend. What’s the issue?

I can’t afford it 😂

I can’t even blame drink.

This is almost as silly as “birthdays are a good excuse for cake”.

You can always blame drink. You had too much or too little, someone else did and so on. The list is endless and if you can’t think how drink is to blame that’s because you don’t drink enough.

Puzzled?? You should look at PX for puzzling prices.

The On One Whippet frame only, is £799

Buy it with a fork, rigid carbon or sus, and you could save up to £300

You’re making a false correlation between manufacturing cost and pricing. These things cost sweet FA to manufacture so manufacturing costs are irrelevant – at least for the bigger, higher volume brands. There are some cost elements to pricing but they are a small percentage of the final selling price which is all about market pricing and charging what people’s perceived value is. The value is not in the actual product..an SC bike is no better than any other bike in reality…all the value is in the brand and people will pay big premiums for branding.

As to the price differences within a brand then again it is in the consumers perceived value in things like the CC frame vs the C frame…these things don’t cost any more or less to manufacture but they charge a bigger premium for the CC frame.

Don’t waste time trying to work it out. There is no real logic…just what the manufacturer thinks what they can get away with – i.e. market pricing.

They’re profiteering capitalists picking every last scrap of flesh off the bones of the proleteriat.

And you’re point is? If people buy the product then it is the right price and everyone walks away happy. the manufacturers made some profit the seller has fulfilled the consumers need. Purchases like this are done emotionally. You don’t HAVE to buy it. Plenty of other bikes at a massively broad price range out there. Big profits are good. Means the company is in good shape and able to make the necessary investments to keep the company on track and ahead of the competition, employees and their families benefit, product development benefits, people get better bikes as a result. Who loses?