Punishment Passes – Is there anything you can do?

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  • Punishment Passes – Is there anything you can do?
  • geetee1972
    Member

    I experienced this yesterday morning, not for the first time but this was particularly upsetting because of the conversation I ended up having with the driver at the lights he then got held up at.

    What I find hard is a combination of the sense of injustice and lack of redress combined with the sense of degredation that someone who hates you that much to willfully put your life at risk.

    I imagine it’s what being on the end of a racist attack might feel like.

    Yesterday’s experience was unfortunate in that we ended up at the lights together. I wasn’t confrontational but he certainly was. I asked if he did it deliberately and he snidely laughed and said he did. I asked if he had kids (turns out he did) and explained that all I wanted was to be able to go home to them at the end of the day.

    His explanation for why he did it was because I was ‘all over the road’, which of course I wasn’t. I had adjusted my position becausae the left side of the road cuts in sharply and you know full well that motorists aren’t going to adjust their line so as not to collide with you, so for a short period I was quite a way out from the kerb, so that I was in the correct position once the road had narrowed and yes, the guy couldn’t pass for about 50m. But even when he did, he still got caught at the lights.

    Honestly it left me feeling really down. So, apart from having a headcam, what can you actually do?

    g5604
    Member

    nothing, let it go and enjoy riding – you will be miserable with a head cam.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Call the police when stood next to the. And read the registration to them.

    trail_rat
    Member

    drag him from his coffin and hoof him in the slats…….

    thats the response you wanted right ?

    geetee1972
    Member

    thats the response you wanted right ?

    No far from it. It’s a real problem. There must be something that can be done that isn’t neanderthal.

    nickjb
    Member

    Tricky one. First thought is report to the police. If they get enough of this sort of thing for the same driver or the same stretch of road they might actually do something. Or as above, forget it. There will always be idiots. I know I occasionally get into a minor altercation, even if it is just muttering under my breath after they’ve gone or thinking of what I could’ve done at the time. Always makes me a feel a bit rubbish and has no impact on them.

    geetee1972
    Member

    What bothers me most about the ‘forget it and carry on’ response, not that I am dismissing the suggestion, is that if this were something like racist or sexist abuse being thrown at you, there is no way we would allow that or suggest that we just ignore it as a society.

    I don’t think punishment passes are any different.

    trail_rat
    Member

    commuting i wear a road hawk , got fed up of the same **** doing the same things day in day out – folks on here say its placebo effect but i never had a single recordable since i fitted it in a prominent position –

    recreation i choose quiet roads.

    toby1
    Member

    Mankind mostly don’t deserve the air they breathe. People don’t really think through consequences (not that there are any for wilfully killing cyclists as we know).

    Option 1) start travelling armed and go for the “Falling down” vengeance approach, it’ll probably be a week or 2 till you get caught.

    Option 2) Suck it up and realise that people really aren’t all that nice.

    Yeah, if you were coming here for cheering up then you ain’t getting it from me.

    fourbanger
    Member

    Pity them because theyre stuck in a car and smile because you’re on a bike. That’s about all.

    You’re piece about getting back to your kids was good. Got to find common ground and allow these morons to realise they’re being **** as they won’t be told for sure.

    amedias
    Member

    Other than report it (right there and then while standing in front of his car and saying “yes, I think I smell alcohol on his breath too” 😈 )* there’s not much you can do.

    I went through a phase a year or so back when I got totally fed up with it, and due to some other things going on at home I was also a bit shouty when I managed to catch up with people, I can honestly say that the best thing I’ve learned to do is let it go.

    Obviously I’ll still report things if it’s properly dangerous, but I try to just ride as safely as I can and not let it get me down.

    *no of course I don’t condone lying like this

    geetee1972
    Member

    I went through a phase a year or so back when I got totally fed up with it, and due to some other things going on at home I was also a bit shouty when I managed to catch up with people, I can honestly say that the best thing I’ve learned to do is let it go.

    Hugs pal. That resonates a little more than is comfortable.

    stumpy01
    Member

    Realistically there are a few options, but I am not sure any of them are particularly helpful…

    1) Do nothing. Try & not let it bother you. I don’t know how you do this.
    2) Report to the Police. They might take action, they might not. A headcam could possibly help if you end up speaking to the driver and he makes some kind of threat or admits to doing it on purpose. There was a solicitor a while back who got a bloke on camera saying that he’d kill him next time (or words to that effect) and he got him done for it.
    3) Get confrontational/physical. Not sure it helps in the long run & can get you into far more trouble than the original perpetrator. Might make someone thing twice about doing it again, but will probably make them hate cyclists even more.

    geetee1972
    Member

    3) Get confrontational/physical. Not sure it helps in the long run & can get you into far more trouble than the original perpetrator. Might make someone thing twice about doing it again, but will probably make them hate cyclists even more.

    With cleated shoes on and a bike to manage, that’s a very risky proposition. And as you say, nothing good will come of it even if you did win the fight.

    Premier Icon theotherjonv
    Subscriber

    Call it in and report it. Exactly as you have here. Yes, you did move out in advance but did so to avoid an issue further ahead; I’ve done the same before and will do again as it’s the safest manoeuvre whether vanman behind thinks it is or not.

    Unlikely they can do anything, be honest with them that it’s your word against his but particularly given his lack of remorse / don’t care attitude, seems like the type who’s done it before and will do it again, so maybe if we all report them every time, then enough of a picture emerges that they might just be able to act on it.

    If i see a cyclist that’s ‘all over the road’ I’d take special care to pass even wider, just in case, surely?

    oldnpastit
    Member

    Try to get the law changed to have presumed liability for motorists?

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    Greg, if it was in Sussex then you can use the Operation Crackdown website to report it. I had to report a marked patrol car which executed a really shit overtake a couple of months back!

    Nothing will necessarily happen, but it’s a record, and if the guy has a number of ‘strikes’ then it’s far more likely they’ll take action.

    DrP
    Member

    Small bottle of car brake fluid strapped to your stem. Quick squirt on his passenger door as you chat..he’ll soon realise what you were up to…

    DrP

    Premier Icon mintimperial
    Subscriber

    I asked if he had kids (turns out he did) and explained that all I wanted was to be able to go home to them at the end of the day.

    You pretty much did everything you can do. The guy will have been all puffed up with adrenaline and testosterone, so there’s no way you were going to get him to back down and apologise there and then. But hopefully you made him feel like a bit of a **** inside, and he might think twice before being a dick to the next rider. Well done.

    ahwiles
    Member

    you found a ***t, it’s not hard, but it’s always unpleasant.

    i reckon you handled the situation very well, maybe a little spark of compassion may twinkle in his tiny brain the next time he thinks about throwing his weight around.

    boblo
    Member

    Trouble is, if you let it go, it becomes ‘acceptable’. And then if a driver misjudges his/her punishment slightly, it’s game over for you.

    Moving over slightly is you saying you took Primary? What else are you supposed to do. It’s defensive riding to avoid being squeezed by someone with poor judgement.

    If it winds you up enough (and it should), the only really active option is to record and report it to the Police. There’s a risk you’ll become one of those shouty tossers always looking for conflict to record but you come across on here as pretty level headed so you might just avoid that.

    The other options are all a bit passive and unsatisfactory.

    antigee
    Member

    [probably pointless personal campaign]I always refer to it as a
    “cowards pass aka punishment pass” in the hope it comes into common use [/probably pointless personal campaign]

    as to this incident – the world is full of idiot **** with bad attitudes and dangerous driving habits a lot of them shouldn’t be let out in a car – nothing you personally can do, social pressure to change attitude to car use is what is needed and anyway you caught him at the lights so he wasted his skills

    ooh tw t is in the swear filter?!

    amedias
    Member

    Hugs pal. That resonates a little more than is comfortable.

    Do not under-estimate how your own mental state can impact things like this, both your sensitivity to them and how you deal with them. Even your little internet man-hug there has just made some memories surface that have made my lip wobble and a whole load of dust miraculously find it’s way into my eye.

    I hope whatever it is you’re dealing with comes to a positive conclusion for you but to pass on a bit of advice, the single most useful thing anyone has ever said to me (and I think it was on here) for dealing with situations like this, and it’s applicable to life in general as well, is:

    we shall not allow these people to pollute our minds with anger

    reporting things like this is important, having the (calm) discussions with them is also important, but above all do not let their anger become your anger.

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
    Subscriber

    Ive taken to wobbling a bit if i suspect the car/van/lorry is about to do something stupid. Just an exagerated weave around a pothole or overbanding when i hear them shift down while aproaching a traffic island or suchlike to make them think twice. Seems to work and avoids the potential confrontation and makes them consider their own actions first so they might just remember it next time they come up behind a cyclist.

    Wear a T-shirt prominently advertising kick-boxing lessons?

    I also think you did all you can do. he may be confrontional at the time (most people get defensive) but if you’re calm, he may at least think about it afterwards and change his mind.

    If he doesn’t change his mind, he’s a see-you-next-tuesday and nothing would make a difference.

    I find cameras are a faff to use every day, unless you’ve got one of those rear light ones http://cycliq.com/product/fly6)?

    project
    Member

    just get the camera phone out and take a pic or video,i did to a taxi driver last year, he screame what you taking my picture for, i explained for my web site.wwwfatbastardsdrivingtaxis.con, he even asked me to spell it for him.

    Or you could shout, possible drink or drugged driver here please avoid him, driver then has to prove he isnt drunk or drugged.

    Premier Icon scaled
    Subscriber

    Open the rear passenger door as you go past at the lights 😀

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber
    tpbiker
    Member

    congratulations on showing restraint. I could let the punishment pass go, but the snidey laugh and his response may have sent me into a rage resulting in some kind of violence inflicted towards his car…*

    You are clearly a better man than I!

    *this obviously depends on how hard he looked…..

    toby1
    Member

    *this obviously depends on how hard he looked…..

    Last person I had pass stupidly close was clearly looking for a fight. He’s stopped just at the top of the road I lived in. All I did was look him in the eye as I cycled past slowly before turning, then he started shouting clearly looking for grief. He said “You got something to say?” I just replied with “You didn’t see me then?” he kept going, I cycled on home.

    Last time his car was in the same spot (over the weekend) there was also a police car and van parked close to the same corner. I’m assuming his presence had something to do with it, glad I left it alone to be honest.

    Premier Icon BoardinBob
    Subscriber

    Moving over slightly is you saying you took Primary? What else are you supposed to do.

    It’s absolutely the right thing to do.

    The challenge is 99.9999999999% of drivers think that legally we should only ride in the gutter.

    soobalias
    Member

    wot tpbiker said.

    dont think i would have held it together that well.

    munrobiker
    Member

    Quite simple really, I don’t negotiate with terrorists. Ignore it and carry on your ride, perhaps a little more defensively than before.

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Subscriber

    Check this site out…
    http://www.nearmiss.bike/

    Laudable aim – hope it provides some reasonable data which is instructive to cyclists as well as drivers/local authorities etc. The first clip in their example video shows someone nearly getting left hooked by a non-indicating driver after filtering up the inside on the zigzags of a pedestrian crossing.

    OP – I think the only positive action you can take is to report to police. The problem is that this feels pretty ineffectual when all you want to do is smash their wing mirror off.

    mrchrispy
    Member

    Seemed you handled it pretty well but there isnt much else we can do.
    I used to go apesh1t on them (doors/mirrors have been damaged) but nothing ever changed, now I just try to ignore them but its very hard, I often just give a slow shake of the head and a sad face now.

    I hate drivers that do this and I wish them all a slow painful death.

    jonba
    Member

    Probably just emphasising the above but report it. I have reported a couple of drivers. The police in Newcastle take it seriously. The last one they paid the guy a visit which was probabyl rather embarrasing for him as he looked (apart from trying to kill me) as an otherwise normal person and I’m sure his wife and kids did wonder why he was being questioned by the police.

    They now also have it on record. Without a witness or video (they recommended I get one) they can do little. But if it happens again then he will have previous and will probably be arrested.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    I’ve often fantasised about these.. http://www.amazon.co.uk/ResQMe-Escape-Tool-Clip-Black/dp/B000IE0EZO

    Doubt I’d ever be brave/stupid enough to use it though.

    ads678
    Member

    I’ve just started commuting again after stopping in Jan because i just couldn’t be bothered with this sort of stuff anymore. I can get angry really easily, I try to reign it in but i just loose it and get shouty, i’ve always been like this. I hate it though, it just ruins my day. I used to love cycling into work, but at the moment i’m just not feeling it. now the weather is better i’m trying to get back into it but it’s hard when nobbers do this sort of thing.

    I had it this morning going round a roundabout, primary position, then indicate to turn off and a wagon behind me floored it past me on the exit. Why he couldn’t wait a few more seconds I have no idea. Really pisses me off, cos it’s ruining a big part of my life and my fitness is suffering because of it. I don’t get the chance to MTB as much as I used to, so commuting is my only real source of exercise.

    Idiots piss me off. Sorry rant over……. 😀

    adsh
    Member

    This is why I gave up road riding and only ride MTB off road or on minor roads and use the turbo instead.

    I wonder what the punishment pass rate is like in US states where concealed carry of a firearm is allowed?

    STATO
    Member

    I wonder what the punishment pass rate is like in US states where concealed carry of a firearm is allowed?

    They dont do punishment pass, they just run you down. Your ‘supposed’ to cycle in the margin (gutter) on main roads in the US.

    Anyway, the whole point/benefit of taking the ‘primary’ position is it gives you space to move over if a cars tries a ‘punishment pass’, you can typically hear when they are coming so a quick glance over the shoulder will tell you they arnt leaving space, use the space youve made and move across at the right moment to make sure they dont clip you with a mirror.

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