Don’t know if it’s been mentioned already, life’s too short to read every post across 5 pages, but:

Have we established why the OP was only doing 60mph on a dual carriage way?

I’d have booted it up the inside rather than get stuck behind Driving Miss Daisy weaving about all over the place!

That is a very worrying point of view.

lots of people here reckon you don’t need to indicate to pull back into the left lane after an overtake, unless there is another road user than will benefit from the indication:

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090421091536AAw5jTv

So I think that would only possibly be the case if you have passed the left hand car by at least the minimum safe braking distance, which is a very rare event in overtaking in this country.

I was driving back from Wales on Thursday night, with torrential rain and strong winds and lots of standing water on the motorway. The motorway was very empty and I was trundling along at about 65mph in the left hand lane, but it didn’t stop people pulling out to overtake me and then cutting back in leaving me less than one second of gap, when there were absolutely no cars between me and the horizon in front of me. To55ers.

Nah, he clearly shouldn’t have indicated, cougar – nobody’s daft enough to pull left in that situation so all he’d do is cause confusion regarding his true intentions

oh

A better question might be “should he have performed the manoeuvre at all?”

I’m a little confused by the OP and the subsequent explanation. One minute you’re so acutely aware of the other vehicle that you can gauge it’s behaviour from the attitude of the headlights, the next you admit you’ve no idea how close it was. These would seem at odds with each other to me?

Anyway. You’re in the second lane doing around 60mph. A vehicle is merging and, it’s probably safe to assume, reasonably likely to be accelerating up to the NSL. It seems to me that the safest course of action here would be to stay put until it’s clear whether the traffic in the leftmost lane is going to be travelling faster than you or not. Which is a perfectly acceptable situation, despite what the ignorantly self-righteous would have you believe. There’s no law against undertaking slower-moving traffic.

What I’d probably have done in the OP’s situation is indicate to signal my intention to move over, and wait to see whether the other vehicle is going to pass on the left, move out to pass on the right, or stay behind me. Then manoeuvre accordingly.

If I were the merging vehicle, and I was met with someone bimbling along in the middle lane at 10mph under the speed limit and merrily changing lanes without indicating or, it would appear, looking, I’d probably have stood on the loud pedal as well; I’d want them some distance behind me at the earliest opportunity. (-:

Have we established why the OP was only doing 60mph on a dual carriage way?

To save fuel and because he can.

Got pulled over just before xmas. Three lane motorway, I was in outside lane, coming up to a junction (approx 3/4 mile away), completed over take of two lorries drag racing each other in inside and middle lane, once past lorries indicated from outside lane and in one manouvere moved from outside lane into inside lane (now approx 1/2 mile from junction, no other vehicles around) Exited on junction and Panda car who had sat behind the lorries whilst i did this put his lights on and gesticulated out of the window for me to pull over.

Reasons given:

1. Shouldn’t complete move from outside to inside lane in one move, should do it in two!

2. Shouldn’t have overtaken lorries with 3/4mile to junction and just sat behind them like he had before leaving junction

3. His LED!!??! on his dashboard indicated to him that i might be doing in excess of 70mph.

Then asked me if i had been drinking (no suspicion).

In response to his reasons, which were all incorrect, I asked him if the reason he was out of uniform was because he was off duty, and whether i could look at this state of the art LED in his Vauxhall Astra which indicated to him my speed. At this point he told me he was right about what he had said then got in his car and drove off. There are some good police out there, and then there are some complete muppets.

I can kind of understand that there’s an argument for “if it doesn’t affect anyone or no-one’s there, there’s no point”, but I’d rather be in the habit of using my indicators when there’s no-one around, than not using my indicators when there IS someone around*. Far, far too many nobbos driving around like that already, IMO.

* Even worse are people turning right at a roundabout who don’t cancel or counter-indicate when they reach their exit. Now THAT makes my sh1t itch.

What I’d probably have done in the OP’s situation is indicate to signal my intention to move over, and wait to see whether the other vehicle is going to pass on the left, move out to pass on the right, or stay behind me. Then manoeuvre accordingly.

Boom – job done.

Let’s have a look at some of the other points here.

Apparently he braked and the police van behind him ‘nearly went up the back end of him too’

Then the police vehicle was driving far too close, or without due care and attention. Or quite possibly both. Were they actually traffic police?

They then went on to explain that the way slip roads work, it’s common decency to pull out to the right lane to let them filter in.

The way that slip roads work, as others have said, is that the onus is on the merging vehicle to merge safely. As far as THC and the law are concerned, it’s nothing to do with you.

It is of course common courtesy to attempt to make life easier for those merging, by allowing sufficient space to them to join or to change lanes if doing so doesn’t inconvenience other road users who are already in that lane.

I would expect the police to enforce the first case, but not the second. If they’d stopped me for the heinous crime of “being impolite” then they might well have experienced further discourtesy.

I wonder if the pigs would have pulled the other guy over for undertaking if you hadn’t moved back in?

If they were pulling people over for being discourteous then who knows what other spurious nonsense they might pull people over for, so probably.

If, on the other hand, they actually pulled the OP for carving in front of faster moving traffic without indicating, then I’d guess the answer would be “no” as they’ve no reason to.

There are some good police out there, and then there are some complete muppets.

+1.

Back when I was in my late teens, I was approaching a cross-roads, about to cross over the major road so I was slowing to give way. I’d to jam on the brakes short of the junction however, to avoid a panda car who’d come steaming round the corner from the left practically on two wheels, on completely the wrong side of the road.

As I stopped he swerved round me, and when he’d eventually managed to grind to a halt and reverse back up next to me he wound the window down. So I did likewise.

He leaned across and with a face like thunder, spat across at me, “you’re in for a bollocking now, aren’t you mate?”

19-year-old me looked at him incredulously for a moment, then said indignantly, “I beg your pardon?”

He glowered at me, then booted it off down the street again. I sat there waiting for him to turn round and try and book me for god only knows what, but that was the last I saw of him. Nobber.

Indicating left now means – “I’m jumping to the front of this queue, so let me in LOSERS”
or “Oops, I’ve now jumped into this queue, didn’t expect that did you? LOSER”

Me

BTW if it was a ‘normal’ police van they shouldn’t really be pulling cars

Drac – Moderator

Of course the(y) can.

Although it’s getting OT, other than officers in uniform having powers to regulate traffic (e.g. stopping / directing vehicles if the road ahead is blocked), only designated traffic officers are authorised to stop vehicles beyond that, and in the OP’s case only a police DTO can advise drivers on their conduct (other DTO’s from VOSA / the Highways Agency can only advise on safe loads / red diesel / etc).

Whilst any officer in uniform can stop any vehicle, there needs to be reasonable suspicion of something other than a road traffic or vehicle excise offence; these powers don’t extend to (rightly or wrongly) giving drivers a telling off.

Saying that though it could be that a DTO was driving a ‘normal’ police van.

Can we get onto fog lights yet?

[edit] spllelling

DezB – Member
Indicating left now means – “I’m jumping to the front of this queue, so let me in LOSERS”
or “Oops, I’ve now jumped into this queue, didn’t expect that did you? LOSER”

😆

😯

The onus is upon the person joining the DC / MW to move into a sufficiently suitable gap in the traffic. Its no coincidence that the view to the right, for the driver wishing to join the DC / MW. Is kept clear, so that said driver can look right to view and select their entry into the traffic, without causing other drivers to brake or change lane.

In general, theres a lot less courtesy and indicating from drivers today. This may have once been the preserve of the BMW driver, but it would seem to be a flourishing trend for folk to just whizz around without using the yellow lights on the corners of their cars. Or otherwise to use their indicators as some sort of ‘indicator of immunity’ that is, if you use your indicator, you can get off with really crap, inconsiderate, driving decisions.

Its a continuation of how rude people in society are becoming towards each other, like those who walk straight at you on the foot path and cyclists who ride through red lights.

Its an asshole fest out there these days, and quite why this is, I’ve yet to discover. Perhaps theres a prize for it or summatt.

😯

Not that this is relevant to the OP. He seemed to be punishing the other driver for what he’d done. That’s not his job. Cutting people up, with or without indicating, is daft, whether you’re teaching them a lesson for ‘not driving properly’ or not.

This is where some people are getting lost in it all. I didn’t pull into or close as possible to the front of the driver on purpose or for spite. I believe he was accelerating a lot quicker than I expected having just driven completely past him approx 65mph/70mph? while he was in the slip road going approx 45-50ish at a guess.

Tonight I cruised home, around 60-65 on the same stretch (because ‘he wants to save fuel, and because he can’ – Thanks for that one,Drac :O))and as I drove past the slip road I took note of the speed. Somewhere around 60-65 and to pass someone in that short slip road, while you are passing it at 60, there should be more than enough time to flow back into the left lane. (Bedmaker that posted earlier knows the slip road and how short it is, I’m sure some others reading will know it too) As I drove past it tonight,I pictured the incident and pictured the driver, me pulling out to let him in, and I thought about the speed I must’ve been going at the end of the slip road as I was pulling back in. For him to be there next to me would be an exaggeration (not that anyone has said that) but considering that I was in the lane and it took a few split seconds before he came on with the full beam, I really do believe he made it look far worse. When the cop told me how close I was to the car,he thought that I pulled in on him on purpose. I told him that I 100% did not do it on purpose. I’m the kind of person that if I did do it for spite, I couldn’t lie and try and wiggle my way out of it in front of two policemen, that’s for sure. I’d crack and come clean! This is why my answer was a firm ‘No’ when he asked if I knew why I had been pulled over.

In my eyes I moved out to the 2nd lane to avoid braking behind him (wasn’t just going to back off the power, so I’d have to at least show the brake lights for the following traffic) but instead I chose to move into the 2nd lane. I drove past a car pulling out of a very short slip road going approx 65 (I was also accelerating until I was fully back into the lane I was in) ..having just passed a car pulling out of a junction doing approx 45-50mph. I’ve driven past cars pulling out of that slip road many times and flowed back in to the 1st lane without any problems. Cars (because of how short it is) are usually quite far back behind you at this point. He didn’t make it easy by flooring it, and he certainly did floor it having just looked at the road on the way home earlier. Without a shadow of a doubt he did this on purpose. Nobody has ever accelerated and matched my speed coming out of that short slip road (whether I was going 60 or 70, it would take one heavy foot to the floor in most cars to be able to do what he’d done)

My version of it and the police version of it will always be different. Nobody will ever know. Don’t get me wrong, when it’s possible and worth doing, I’ll pull over to the next lane to let folk filter. This wasn’t a car waiting to pull out or getting up to sufficient speed to pull out in front of me, he pulled out at a point where I had to slow down or go into the 2nd lane. On a longer slip road this would never have happened as he would have had enough time to gain the speed and it would have caused no problems. He pulled out in front of me going approx 20mph less. To me,the majority of you guys on this thread and to the traffic cop I was speaking to earlier at work, it seems that we all believe the guy shouldn’t have pulled out if he couldn’t match the speed.Infact, even with me going 10mph under he still never managed to match my speed of 60mph.

I could go on and on about how it wasn’t my fault and that some of you believe I was the main driver at fault. I will always see a driver pulling out of a junction and causing drivers that have the right of way, to be at fault. Also,any driver that I’ve moved into another lane for because of their wrong actions, that drive right up behind me and put full beam on when there was absolutely no need to,will always be the driver at fault. The police weren’t traffic cops and seemed a bit speechless when I explained my actions and reasons for driving in the left lane and not moving over. The reason being, they knew too well what junction is and how it works. The only thing they got wrong, (their own words)is that he believed the way to deal with the problem of people pulling out on cars at slip roads is to always move into the right lane for common courtesy. This is the bit that peeves me off,the fact that the police pulled me over for letting someone out and pulling back into the lane, having just seen someone pull out on me in the first place, then putting full beam on me having continued accelerating towards me. All something he completely brought upon himself.

I could go on.. but it’s all pointless. I think about it and ask myself why this and that happened. Like how it is possible for a police van to appear with a few other cars on a dual carriageway having just seen a clear road behind me minutes earlier, reel me in over a 4 mile + stretch when I was going 60mph.. If he was going the speed limit for his van, or even a bit more, he still wouldn’t have there behind me. Not to mention the distance he drove behind another driver after the talk we had.

It’s funny, as a cop that’s out on the road most days that’s far more experienced than this younger cop, was telling me that the driver was at fault to begin with for pulling out and causing me to alter my driving, before I even got to explain the rest of it. The opposite views on slip roads from the same force? One is telling me to move over out of common courtesy and to follow what the majority of people do, the other is older and knows what a junction is and how it works.

Why any cop would pull over a driver that (in his eye’s) made a wrong move due to what was basically someone else’s wrong move in the first place is beyond me.

Anyhows,good reading,folks. Please don’t get too carried away with arguements on the rules of the road and falling out with each other!

Cheers.

Nobody likes being told off by the Police, but in this case what the other driver did may have been inconsiderate, while what you did was dangerous and careless, as you admit you don’t see why you should MSM and shoulder check if necessary. I’d try to chalk it up to experience and be glad it was only a near miss.

schnor – Member
Me
BTW if it was a ‘normal’ police van they shouldn’t really be pulling cars

Drac – Moderator
Of course the(y) can.

Although it’s getting OT, other than officers in uniform having powers to regulate traffic (e.g. stopping / directing vehicles if the road ahead is blocked), only designated traffic officers are authorised to stop vehicles beyond that, and in the OP’s case only a police DTO can advise drivers on their conduct (other DTO’s from VOSA / the Highways Agency can only advise on safe loads / red diesel / etc).

Whilst any officer in uniform can stop any vehicle, there needs to be reasonable suspicion of something other than a road traffic or vehicle excise offence; these powers don’t extend to (rightly or wrongly) giving drivers a telling off.

Saying that though it could be that a DTO was driving a ‘normal’ police van.

Can we get onto fog lights yet?

[edit] spllelling Schnor – congratulations for completely misinterpretting the legislation, and suggesting to people that ‘ordinary officers’ have no powers for road traffic offences. I encourage you to try that line in court to see just how wrong you are.

Designated Traffic Officers within the legislation above are not police officers at all. The Highways Agency is a typical organisation envisaged as appointing traffic officers. As further evidence, see s.4(1) where any constable can instruct any traffic officer what to do! s.6(2-5) adds words to (using OR) the road traffic act – not replacing the existing provisions for constables. s.7 grants traffic officers the powers of constables in certain circumstances (not vice versa, since constables already have the powers)

Whilst any officer in uniform can stop any vehicle, there needs to be reasonable suspicion of something other than a road traffic or vehicle excise offence;

Completely wrong. Any cop in uniform can stop any vehicle being driven on a road. No reason or suspicion of an offence is needed.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/163

Even cops out of uniform can stop vehicles (although the failing to stop offence only relates to constables in uniform).

Just for a different Police story, a work colleague was driving home from Newcastle at the weekend. Stopped by Police. Please watch your speed, we have been following you for a few miles and we don’t think you should really be doing 90-100mph. Apparently they then went on to explain that the husband was driving very well, keeping distances, indicating, etc etc, so they would not take any action. Thank god for common sense!

Was the car on a conveyor belt at the time?

Was the car on a conveyor belt at the time?

Ah ! only the time served STW forumite would understand this.
😉

I think the issue was the car was trying to join the conveyor belt, but the wheels might not have been rotating at the correct speed to facilitate a harmonious synchronisation during its transition from being off the conveyor belt to being on the conveyor belt.

I see no error or contradiction in my previous statement, irc. I said “any officer in uniform can stop any vehicle”; anything beyond a S163 stop (and subsequent Sections) needs PACE S4 authorisation, which I summarised as “needing reasonable suspicion of something other than a road traffic or vehicle excise offence”, there is nothing which entitles an officer to detain a driver for the purposes of just giving them a ‘telling off’.

(I am) … suggesting to people that ‘ordinary officers’ have no powers for road traffic offences.

Whut? Congrabulationz for winning STW’s ‘collosal misinterpretion of a sentence’ award. In no way did I suggest that; I said that beyond powers already outlined above, the only remaining powers to stop vehicles are those given to DTO’s by the TMA, and that VOSA / HA can only do so for unsafe loads / drivers hours / etc.

At at the risk of repeating myself – whilst any officer in uniform or DTO can stop any vehicle (for reasons done to death), they can’t lawfully pull drivers over and detain them just for a telling off.

I encourage you to try that line in court to see just how wrong you are.

I do ‘try that line’ actually. Most recently being summonsed for about 8 alleged motoring offences after being stopped and detained for no reason (they didn’t even do me the courtesy of making something up), with my car also being given a thorough going over – all done by non-traffic officers, who had no training on correct procedure, using devices with no training, no authorisation, and the devices themselves had no type-approval / up-to-date certificates / calibrations; in other words they thought they could stop some random driver, give them a good going over, with absolutely no consideration as to the consequences of their actions if the driver elected to hear the allegations in court … which I naturally did. The letter of apology I eventually got from the C.C. was very nice.

This is precisely why police have dedicated traffic officers who are trained and authorised specifically for traffic duties (beyond powers already mentioned) in order to carry out their duties safely and to the required standard, and if necessary, to collect information which can be used in court.

This is why you don’t, or rather shouldn’t, see panda cars / police vans / CSU’s stopping drivers, the main reason being any half-decent solicitor – as I did myself – can easily get thrown out of court any allegations of wrong-doing based on information obtained as a result of a ‘bad stop’; consider Nick Freeman as an extreme (or successful, depending on how you view him) example of this.

Oy, a whole lunch hour gone. So, like I said earlier: –

If it was a ‘normal’ police van they shouldn’t really be pulling cars