pictonroad the only thing Alan Lovell seems good at is either bankrupting companies or breaking them up.

update: They’ve started this year’s negotiations early, following strikes in the Autumn, and made an offer for this year already. I’m in Higher Education (professional services rather than academic):

2020: 0%
2021: 1%
2022: 3%
2023: 5%

The union are keen to point out that as RPI was 13.4% last month, the last two years will mark the biggest ever real-terms cut. Adjusted for inflation, I’m earning less than I did in 2015, when I was in a lower pay grade. Sigh. They’re balloting next week. Not sure how to vote.

They’re balloting next week. Not sure how to vote.

Well, if you want to give your union ANY kind of leverage in negotiation, there’s only one way to vote. On the other hand, if you’re satisfied with the pay deal and feel that it’s fair and reasonable, then vote no.

I honestly can’t understand why sometimes would consider not voting for action when they are being truly done over. It just gives implicit permission for further and more severe doings over in the coming years.

Honestly, you deserve better.

The union are keen to point out that as RPI was 13.4% last month, the last two years will mark the biggest ever real-terms cut.

Whilst that is technically true and makes a good soundbite, there’s a bit of me always wondering what the unions are realistically expecting?  I’ve not heard of anyone*, public or private sector getting anything like 13.4% as cost of living increases.  Whilst its true then to describe these things as real terms cuts, its also a bit misleading, if average wages in general are not rising by 13.4%.

Don’t get me wrong I’ve a lot of sympathy for staff striking in public sector roles where essentially the government is the monopoly employer.  BUT if I’ve done my sums right, if you strike for a day you don’t get paid for that day, so every day you strike for costs you 0.4% of your salary?   I realise its a bit more complicated than that (and its often not just about £), but crudely if you are being offered X% and go on strike for a week then if you are offered X+2% you are no better off than before are you, at least for this year?

* averaged across all roles – there are individual roles/grades that might be getting double digit rises.

I’m not voting to strike primarily for more money, I just want nursing to be a job that attracts people in future.
Why is it only banking and the like where you ‘have to pay to attract talent’

sweepy – because if you weren’t incentivising people into banking with money you might end up with caring, compassionate individuals instead?  😉

Its interesting – if you were in the corporate meetings about pay, you’ll find they are trying to find ways to keep pay low by being employers people want to work for which are not about £.  That might be culture, perceived ethos, nature of the products etc. i.e. its easier to get people to work for a company that seems to be doing good than one which seems to be evil.  I’m not going to suggest that nurses don’t deserve to be paid well to attract or retain talent because their true reward is from the patient care or any bullshit like that.  But there are things which employers can do which mean even if you are paid shit people will come/feel valued/stay.  Some of them are really difficult to do and involve culture and management styles etc – but others, like having a decent well-stocked canteen serving hot food regardless of your shift, making sure your staff get and can take their breaks somewhere reasonably nice, actually cost a fraction of what an extra 0.5% pay rise would cost.

Vote for strike. I’d say. Strengthens the unions hand in negotiation. Depending on union and numbers there may be strike pay if you have to picket or hardship funds.
I have been in my role 22 years and been in strike for 2 days both in the past couple of months. Gone from blasé about unions, to needing support in a grievance, to just this week becoming a rep. From what I’ve seen negotiations do not happen with good faith.
If COSLA had returned to negotiation with 5% last February then Scottish teachers would not be striking. But the came back with a low ball offer, then stopped negotiating, then current cost of living. So now that5% is not as good as it first seemed. ’22 pay still in dispute ’23 will be due for submission in a few weeks. The back pay will be a killer

Poly- you are right but those things dont get done, I used to be proud of my work and felt valued but now weve been run down to the point we cant do a good job, and breaks are a rarity, a staff room a dream and a well stocked canteen open over shifts is an unimaginable concept. Its not the pure money that makes me want to quit, thats just one way we are being ground down.

I’ve not heard of anyone*, public or private sector getting anything like 13.4% as cost of living increases

A friend works in “the city” for a US bank. They all got a 10% cost of living pay rise, independent of any other rises, less than a year ago.

The same friend was then talking about how “we can’t all carry on getting 10% pay rises every year or we’ll get a wage/price spiral”. I did point out that we haven’t “all” been getting 10% payrises!

if you were in the corporate meetings about pay, you’ll find they are trying to find ways to keep pay low by being employers people want to work for which are not about £

.

Article in the Times yesterday stated that international investors are giving the UK a swerve partly because of the gross rewards CEOs have been rewarding themselves that bear no relationship to the success of the business. Inflation, housing, the rate of interest, austerity are all part of the struggle but for some considerable time the workers have been losing. If you don’t fight your corner no-one is going to do it for you and anyone waiting for Rachel Reeves to come along will be sorely disappointed.

I’ve not heard of anyone*, public or private sector getting anything like 13.4%

JLR factory workers; 12.4%
Rolls Royce staff; 10% + £2000 cost of living bonus.

There will be more but these are just two fairly high profile ones I noticed over the last few months.

Rolls Royce staff; 10% + £2000 cost of living bonus.

Wrong, on both figures

10.1% payable from April here, but that’s because what CPI was in September 2022 and so thats what my local government pension should increase by, we shall see ……

RR – offer of £2k one-off lump sum was rejected as was 4% pay rise.
I don’t know what, if anything, was finally settled.
Recent comments from newly installed chief exec describing the company as a ‘burning platform’ aren’t re-assuring for employees or investors.

Im public sector and had 0 pay rise. But plenty of jobs don’t have a pay rise too. Plus I think I’m paid reasonable well for what I do so don’t particularly deserve a payrise.

Wrong, on both figures

okay, but figures are from reasonably reputable sources. Can you provide a more accurate source?

https://www.hrmagazine.co.uk/content/news/rolls-royce-factory-workers-win-record-pay-increase

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/jaguar-land-rover-workers-12-24540883.amp

v8 – the HR mag article refers to RR cars which is a wholly owned subsidiary of BMW and has no connection to RR plc.
Do you have information to support your earlier post about RR?

Ah, I understand the confusion now; I meant RR cars. I apologise for my lack of accuracy. I have no info on the industrial relations of RR plc.