A few missing the point about tolerance. People like us write a few rants on chat forums. We generally keep our thoughts to ourselves and we daren’t risk making any more of a protest than blurting things out on here.

Conversely, these protestors in Luton are on the streets in person making a fuss where they know they will offend many many people. Their anger and aggression is misdirected. Yes they have the right to free speech, but it is their abuse of innocent servicemen that is totally wrong. There needs to be a limit and these people overstepped the mark.

The so called tabloid frenzy is not just a gutter press issue, it’s broadsheets and the BBC too. It’s about the feelings of real people. People who understand what is fair and reasonable.

The intolerance perpetuated by these groups is a real threat to our tolerant society. On those grounds it is entirley reasonable that they should not be allowed to remain here. Tolerance has it’s limits.

If your views are so incompatible with a free society why stay here? Go and live where your religion and restrictions on personal freedom are accepted.

The biggest problem we have is that we, the passive majority, will put up with any measure of nonsense thrown at us. There is an element that just want us to shut up and to continue to roll-over and take it. Why should we, don’t we have the right to free speech too??

Yes they have the right to free speech

There needs to be a limit

From Oxford English Dictionary:

free·dom / ?fr?d?m/
• n. the power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants without hindrance or restraint

Hmmm..

Actually; you’re on a wind up, aren’t you, spongebob?

Naughty!

Not sure if it’s in the links above but on the news the other night the reporter tracked down and interviewed one of the protesters.

Ignoring the rights and wrongs behind the reasons for going to war, this protester justified the protest as these soldiers had killed “innocents”.

Now one of the outcomes of this war was the capture and “punishment” (lets not debate the outcome of that here) of a man responsible for the murder of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of “innocents”.

And now in the aftermath the country (Iraq) is in the grip of a civil war as rival factions following the same ideology as these protesters, merrily blow foreign soldiers and their own fellow countrymen to kingdom come on a daily basis. I suppose it’s alright though as their martyrs can look forward to a harem of virgins at the pearly gates while the soldiers have the exciting prospect of MRSA!

Perhaps a reorganisation of their priorities and perspective is in order.

….their martyrs can look forward to a harem of virgins at the pearly gates…..

Or perhaps a nice bowl of raisins…. 😉

Yes they have the right to free speech, but it is their abuse of innocent servicemen that is totally wrong.

Hence my rhetorical point about Free Tibet protesters at a Chinese military parade, which far fewer people would feel morally indignant about.

Let’s try the old Switcheroo:

Say you were living in a foreign country and that country invaded the UK with a large military presence and killed hundreds of thousands of civilians.

How would you feel when the returning troops paraded through your street?

Would you protest?

Seeing as nobody can agree, let’s talk about breasts instead then.

I mostly agree with Rudeboy. Whilst the “protestors” are obviously Islamist rent-a-mob provacateurs, what exactly did the authorities think would happen?

I don’t remember homecoming parades for troops returning from tours of Northern Ireland in the 70s through the centres of towns with large Irish populations.

It seems to me the government let the troops down by sending them to Iraq, let them down again by not equiping them properly, and then let them down again by sending them out on an ill-thought out march.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/matthew-norman/matthew-norman-soldiers-suffer-contempt-from-all-sides-1642991.html

Say you were living in a foreign country and that country invaded the UK with a large military presence and killed hundreds of thousands of civilians.

How would you feel when the returning troops paraded through your street?

Would you protest?

Not sure of the relevance
Weren’t the protesters British?

Seeing as nobody can agree, let’s talk about breasts instead then.

You mean ‘seeing as I can’t come up with anything other than reactionary trolling, I am going to give up’.

uplink:

Fine, alter my question to “Say your family had been living in a foreign country for several generations…”

Doesn’t anyone want to talk about breasts then??

Wow uplink. That’s so much more interesting!

Yes they have the right to free speech

There needs to be a limit

With rights come responsibilities…

I think that the police refusing to allow the parade would have been wrong as that would have stifled freedom of expression in the first place…

(In fact, I find it unacceptable that the police have the right of veto anyway: sounds like a possible police state situation?)

Yes, that’s the truth. If you look hard enough, you might see it too.

You egotistical, low-brow, short-sighted, ill-educated, reactionist quarterwit. You are wrong on so many levels and your understading of recent conflicts, politics and the state system are not worth mentioning.

If the armed forces want to hold any ceremonies, then perhaps they should have them in private, in military establishments, with only the families of service personnel attending. Then, they could give out their medals and stuff, without the risk of anyone ‘disrespecting’ the ‘heroes’.

They represent a faith which preaches peace and tolerance, no more than the extreme-right do.

The soldiers and sailors and airmen do what is required. They did it before parades. They don’t really care for parades, but the overwhelming public opinion means there are parades – and most are very happy with that. The troops do not represent a faith – you dullard – they represent a state in which you have a voting part to play. Shut up or put up – high-horsing it on here just does nothing.

Gets my goat this, Ok so we live in a ‘free country’, but really, would this kind of shite be tolerated in certain other countries?

If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen springs to mind.
I know we all marveled at the protesters in Tibet, but how many foreigners would dare go to Saudi & openly cavort or drink alcohol in public?

When in Rome…

You egotistical, low-brow, short-sighted, ill-educated, reactionist quarterwit. You are wrong on so many levels and your understading of recent conflicts, politics and the state system are not worth mentioning.

Heh!

Egostistical: Yep.
Low-brow: Explain please.
Short-sighted: S’why I need glasses.
Ill-educated: What a waste of govenment money has been wasted on my college and university stuff…
Reactionist: I react to stuff I don’t agree with. Is everyone therefore ‘Reactionist’?
Quarterwit: Half the wits of a halfwit! Seen me recent ‘avocado incident’ thread? I think even me mum might agree!

Winding you up enough to have to attempt to tear me apart: Back of the net…..

Shut up or put up – high-horsing it on here just does nothing.

Do you think the police would stand by and watch if the National front had a march outside a mosque ?? Freedom of speach or double standards ?

When is the next Soldiers home coming? I’d like to be there. From the previous ones there seems to be alot of grey-haired people in the shots. Irespective of my thoughts on a conflict I’d like to clap people who stuck their necks out home.

I’d like to offer to help hand out the orange overalls!

Protest if you like but to the people who made the troops go to war, not the troops themselves.

Straight to the point here. Having been a Soldier for 23 years i am dismayed that some of you take the Armed Forces for granted. Haven’t you seen how many soldiers have died so that you have the freedom to do as you please? politicians make policy, soldiers enforce it. This was the way in the First, Second and subsequent World Wars and conflicts. Soldiers do the job because it’s exciting (sometimes) and they are proud to do it for their country. They do not do it for the money! How many of you get shot at during your normal working day? to say they understand it is part of their job is condescending. They do it for you, you ungrateful Richard heads. If the Muslims don’t like living here they should go back to Iraq. Oh, but they don’t have a social security system there that gives money away to anyone that wants it. Thats why they all live here. i was proud to have served my Country for 23 years. My family have suffered enduring hardship as i spent 6 months away from them on Countless occasions fighting wars for politicians. I didn’t see my daughter being born as i was serving in Iraq. thanks for all your support.

Leeeetle bit different, though, eh?

‘Do you think the police would stand by and watch if the BNP had a march past a Synagogue, whilst goose-stepping, doing a straight arm salute and chanting ‘Sieg Heil’?’

Freedom of speech, or Double Standards?

Personally, I think that some people, like the Luton protestors, are absolute arseholes.

But, they seem to have acted within the Law, as they have made no direct statements that can be legally construed as being ‘racist’.

Clever. But I believe the reality is (having spoken with such radical ‘Muslims’), that people like that are racist, bigoted and culturally intolerant. And other Muslim people I know feel that the idiots calling for ‘beheadings’ and ‘death to infidels’ etc, are sad **** who need to open their minds, and stop being such narrow-minded w4nkers.

Popocatapetl,
you have my thanks for what you have done, and I assume that’s why you did it, brave men stand up for their country, it seems as if in this day & age ‘brave’ men hide behind a firewall.
Take it to the streets & there will be rebellion, it’s already starting*

*not by me, I’m not inherently racist, or against others. But I do feel strongly that you should abide by the laws & the spirit of the land that you choose to live in.

Soldiers do the job because it’s exciting to join the Armed Forces.

So, you think, because you have been a member of Our Glorious Armed Forces, that you somehow have a greater right to express your views, than other British Citizens?

What did you fight for? Was it, possibly, ‘Freedom of Speech, Thought and Expression’?

Soldiers do the job because it’s exciting

And what else? To protect British people, regardless of Race, Belief or Social Class? So that they can live happily in a Free and Democratic society? I thought that was the purpose of our military…?

The amount of ignorance you are displaying is staggering.

My Dad’s a Muslim. And quite possibly lived in Britain longer than you have. Do a bit of Googling, and try to learn something about troops from ‘British India’, and their role in WW2.

Have you any idea, about the sacrifices made by Muslim, and indeed troops of all faiths, for this country?

If the Muslims don’t like living here they should go back to Iraq.

You’re a disgrace.

I’m going to stop there, as I’m not in a fit state to respond properly to such ignorant, narrow-minded and bigotted views and opinions.

My Dad’s a Muslim

Well Rudey, that’ll explain why you’re always shirty and causing trouble then.

All makes perfect sense now 💡

This thread has taken a very depressing turn for the worse.

not by me, I’m not inherently racist, or against others. But …………………..

Says it all.

Rudeboy/fred, your not helping here, go troll somewhere else.
Comparing the British empire to the modern day tribulations as far as a serving member would view it is not on, it’s very different 🙁
If you want to go to war, then sign up, your crusade on a niche internet forum won’t work.

My Dad’s a Muslim

Well Rudey, that’ll explain why you’re always shirty and causing trouble then.

All makes perfect sense now

You need to retract that one.

Popocatapetl, its possible for citizens to hate the politicians yet love what soldiers endure. Strong and emotive but I detest how someone can be paid peanuts, suffer a dangerous job and potentially come home physically and mentally a broken person whilst a pisspoor politician can retire with a stunning pension. Tossers and spineless Labour (and Tory) politicians.
They love the limelight and not their country.

Cheers for pointing that out trailmonkey, but I’m relaying pub talk, I don’t instigate it.
Power to the internet warriors.

You need to retract that one.

Why ? Aren’t all muslims shirty troublemakers then ?

That’s not what the papers are saying. And anyway, isn’t that why we’re at war with them ?

British troops are most certainly protecting a faith as they serve the crown which is the default head of the Church of England.
It would seem a rather nice way to show the stupidity of a hardline response and actually start making the Islamic community start to condemn it’s own by allowing them enough rope to hang themselves with. Certainlty the Islamic Council of Great Britain has condemmed thes action, with a growing community condemnatation, support for extremism will be eroded one would hope. Ceratinly the abhorrent and feable expulsion of Gert Wilders is for this cause I feel.
The whole point of freedom of speech is it is just that despite the view point.

Yes, making mock o’ uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an’ they’re starvation cheap.

My grandfather spent his entire life as a career soldier – Indian Army and RA. He spent more time abroad than he did in his native land. Survived the fall of Singapore and the Burma campaigns – and spoke little of either. Were he alive today, he’d have been absolutely outraged by Bliar’s foreign policy jaunts – and the resulting cost in blood and treasure. My dad, himself an ex-Army medical officer, feels much the same way.

It is eminently possible to both support HM Forces and object to the wars inwhich this generation of fcuktard politicos has deployed ’em. Ultimately, I’d rather stand for a country which tolerated protest – however provocative, however stupid. Because, quite frankly, the flag-waving of the Daily Crass leaves me almost as cold as the hate-filled bile of fundamentalist preachers. The tabloid headlines smack of empty jingo, rather than actual appreciation of sacrifice, or the lack of helicopters, or the back-to-back tours, or what it means to lose yer **** legs because of ancient landmines. How easily we forget those old lines:

You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
Sneak home and pray you’ll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.

noteeth, so carry on, would you stand for your country if push came to shove or not?
Quite a post, but I’m not quite sure where your going with it though. You show upbringing in your respect, but no faith in what you follow, you don’t still believe the politicians run this country do you?

😉

Straight to the point here. Having been a Soldier for 23 years i am dismayed that some of you take the Armed Forces for granted. Haven’t you seen how many soldiers have died so that you have the freedom to do as you please?

Please explain how the iraq war helped to do this?

politicians make policy, soldiers enforce it. This was the way in the First, Second and subsequent World Wars and conflicts.

That’s true and I don’t blame the soldiers – I just think its possibly a little tasteless to have a parade given the context.

Soldiers do the job because it’s exciting (sometimes) and they are proud to do it for their country. They do not do it for the money! How many of you get shot at during your normal working day? to say they understand it is part of their job is condescending. They do it for you, you ungrateful Richard heads.

Well my mate who joined the army mainly did it because he thought it would be a good career for him with good training, opportunities etc.

If the Muslims don’t like living here they should go back to Iraq. Oh, but they don’t have a social security system there that gives money away to anyone that wants it. Thats why they all live here.

You sound like a bigot. And suggesting people should go back to the country we have virtually destroyed is a bit rich.

Anyone want a prawn? Be quick, they’re going fast!

Ttrailmonkey- It’s ok, as I’m sure ErnieLynch is not being out of order, considering their previous posts. I think they are being a bit sarcastic, or ironic, or something.

Mm, these prawns are nice…

Rudeboy/fred, your not helping here, go troll somewhere else.

Come on, folks.What d’you reckon….?

But I won’t lie; I’ve had a few, and I don’t think I can offer a sensible and considered opinion and that, right now, So I won’t. Time for Rudeboy to take a step back and relax for the evening.

Mmm….

Prawns have all gone; none of youse were quick enough.

so carry on, would you stand for your country if push came to shove or not?

I’m a nurse in the NHS – I spend most of my working day pushing and shoving. 😈

And some of that involves looking after dignified old geezers who have endured more than most of us can ever imagine.

I have no illusions about politicians or the, er, global military-industrial complex. Or the effect of cluster bombs on children. Or Haliburton contracts. But I don’t much care to be lectured by either tabloid editors and/or placard waving loons.

Noteeth; I want your babies.

I am, however, quite drunk…

Straight to the point here

“they don’t have a social security system there that gives money away to anyone that wants it. Thats why they all live here”

oh go learn some history.

Perhaps you could point out a War that wasnt motivated by greed for power and influence?

So whilst I accept that being a Soldier must be horrible, nobody forced you.

Bearing arms against another human being has never been something I can understand or justify, perhaps you can change my mind with informed debate?

Two wrongs do not make a right

Noteeth; I want your babies.

It would be miracle of medical technology, laandaaaner. However, my ideal woman is a.) a woman. 😀