Really – questioning the orthodoxy on here gets funny reactions and everything I say on helmets can be backed up with good data.

it can aso be countered with equally good evidence

C – no one knows as its far more complex than your simplistic analysis.

it is nto simplistic TJ it either absorbed some of the force of the impact or it did not absorb some of the force of the impact. this one really is black and white…cant believe you suddenly want to go all grey

His head would / could have hit at different angle / place / level of force or not at all as the helmet increase the size of the head significantly

yes without the helmet his head would not have hit the ground and if it did it would have floated down like a gentle balloon going to ground 🙄
you call this recounting of what actually happened anecdote..it is still vastly superior to your made up account of what might have happened

Plus a whole load of other factors that you simply will not want to consider.

like what you are never wrong?

Mods can you somehow ban him form any helmet thread?

All too often these days we come across individuals who can justify any action or perspective on an issue or situation.

The internet has loads of research material and if someone was interested they could more likely than not provide proof of any situation or fact they wished to advocate.

The relative truth is simply that which is most appealing to the individuals chosen view point or perspective.

There are a great many factors in the helmet debate, however the most relevant one in my retarded opinion is that, a helmet is easily replaceable, the human head is not!

Junkyard

it can aso be countered with equally good evidence

go on then.

wearing a helmet increases the size and weight of the head significantly. Of course it has the potential to alter the dynamics of the impact with the ground.

it is still vastly superior to your made up account of what might have happened

what made up account? where have I said what would happen – merely shown that the assumptions made are questionable
and that this

it is nto simplistic TJ it either absorbed some of the force of the impact or it did not absorb some of the force of the impact.

is simply to simplistic an analysis.

go on then

Nah I am off to church to explain to the m why god does not exits, then of to hospital to persuade the Dr’s to give up medicine and start treating with homoeopathy..I prefer situations with a chance of persuading the other person.

what made up account? where have I said what would happen

His head would / could have hit at different angle / place / level of force or not at all as the helmet increase the size of the head significantly

Not answering you after this post on this thread
You would do well to just step away from helmet threads your view is known.

His head would / could have hit at different angle / place / level of force or not at all as the helmet increase the size of the head significantly

IE without a helmet thus with a smaller lighter head the dynamics off the impact with the ground would / could have been different. In what way is impossible to determine. This is indisputable.

so the simplistic yes / no black / white analysis is ill suited to explaining what happened

Helmet: 300gm, head: around 5 kilos, that’s ao additional 6%?

EDIT of course “could” works but it’s a bit meaningless and academic, whether “would” fits and whether any difference would have been significant, matters.

TJ I haven’t been involved in any of the helmet threads, can you tell me if you think that helmets are a bad idea because they don’t work?

Or what exactly your stand point on helmets is?

Kaesae – there are two separate points

1) helmets are much less effective especially against major impact than many folk believe edit and indeed in some circumstances can make injuries worse
2) cycling is a low risk activity and for much cycling the risk of s serious head injury preventable by a helmet is very very low indeed so for a gentle pootle why wear one?

Some good discussion and links to debate and data here
http://www.ctc.org.uk/desktopdefault.aspx?tabid=4688

Want to know more email me.

Plus a whole load of other factors that you simply will not want to consider.

So because I have a different opinion to you, your default position is that I am blinkered 🙄

.
Here’s something that you may not want to consider …..

I have actually looked at the “whole load of other factors”

I have considered them.

And I have a different opinion to yours 😯

.
I know you like to imagine a world where your opinion is the only valid one.

But that isn’t the case I’m afraid.

TJ – If you knew before going out for a bike ride today that you were going to be unfortuneate enough to come off your bike today and the only thing you knew that was you were going to hit your head hard enough to end up in A+E, whether you were wearing a helmet or not – you don’t know how bad the injury would be, what you hit, how fast and at what angle you hit it or whether wearing a helmet would have made injury less or more serious. Given the choice now, before it happens, would you wear your helmet today?

Genuine question – interested in a simple yes or no answer please.

I hope you don’t come off your bike obviously.

interested in a simple yes or no answer please.

Are you new here

Peace people!

Everyones opinion is valid it’s called having a well rounded perspective on an issue.

This simply comes down to personal choice, no need to get agro or nasty, let’s all just try to except that opinions will vary and that’s it’s not about being right, just learning what we can and to get on and understand that we are all different!

Much of what TJ is saying seems sensible enough, cycling is a low risk activity, mountain biking is a reasonably extreme sport however so a helmet is probably a good idea.

Mods kill this now before it all gets out of hand and dummys are being spat.

Hicksey – I wear a helmet when the risk of crashing is high and when the consequences might be serious so I wear on for trail centres and similar riding

a gentle bimble on an old railway line I won’t

Thanks for the answer TJ. So, the answer to my question would be yes presumabley.

The only thing I’d say is that everytime I’m come off my bike I haven’t known it was going to happen. Sometimes it’s been when I’ve been riding fast or on tricky stuff, sometimes while just bimbling along. I broke my arm bimbling along a bridleway once – low speed and just bad luck, but it happened.

I’m off for a bike ride now – stay safe all.

so for a gentle pootle why wear one

It’s called choice. Google it. There’s lots of data on it.

This got big shittered quickly….

This is a proper wear a helmet thread.

It’s got everything I would have expected.

8/10

well done everybody.

It’s like watching rats trapped in a maze with no exit.

Hicksy – can I ask you a question?

If you knew before going out for a walk today that you were going to be unfortunate enough to have a workman on some scaffolding drop something on your head and the only thing you knew was that it was going to hit your head hard enough to end up in A+E, whether you were wearing a helmet or not – you don’t know how bad the injury would be, what hit you, how fast and at what angle it hit you or whether wearing a helmet would have made injury less or more serious. Given the choice now, before it happens, would you wear your helmet today?

Genuine question – interested in a simple yes or no answer please.

most of this thread reads as;

lalalalalalala I’m not listening, I’m right, I’m right, I’m right, lalalalalalala I’m not listening

glad your buddy is ok.

How about if you were going down the Pub ended up drinking 8-10 pints by mistake and upon stumbling home you slipped up and landed on your head . Would you of worn a helmet to the Pub if you knew this was going to happen?

So TJ says in his last post that a helmet is effective. It’s just that his risk assesment has different parameters to other peoples 😉

Look like he spilled the bottle of ketchup he was carrying.

TandemJeremy – Member

Anecdote is not evidence

Yes it is.

I love helmet threads me! Best one I heard was a guy at GT without a lid heshing down the red, at a stop I says to him, ‘**** me your’e a brave lad fying down there with bo lid’ & he said, ‘well everytime I come here I fall off & bust my helmet, I’ve broken 3, so I don’t bother anymore’
I’ve broken 2 in crashes & there’s no shadow of doubt in my mind that I’d have had a much sorer head on both occasions If I hadn’t been wearing them.
I never wore one when I was riding trials years ago until they became compulsory.

TandemJeremy – Member

1) helmets are much less effective especially against major impact than many folk believe and indeed in some circumstances can make injuries worse

2) cycling is a low risk activity and for much cycling the risk of s serious head injury preventable by a helmet is very very low indeed.

Druidh – Yes 😀

Drat, I thought I may get caught in my own trap!

What I was trying to find out from TJ was whether he thought he would be better off wearing a helmet in a crash where he hit his head and therefore if he deemed a helmet worth wearing. I realise that we can’t keep safe all the time, but in activity where I hurt myself more than in any other area of my life (I’m obviously not much good!) it seems sensible for me to wear a helmet when on my bike. I can’t see a practical reason not to.

I, like TJ, would try and assess any risks and wear what I felt was required.

Anyhow, managed to stay on my bike today – even though I was being a bit rad 😀

*Waits for the above post to be edited and quoted back to me but in a walking down the street situation*

I have to say I can’t see how the helmet could not have helped in this instance. Rider connected with ground, straightforward impact.

Also, in my worst crash (OTB on the road) I head-butted the tarmac, breaking the helmet, but also getting 4 cuts to the face and forehead. The straps were reasonably tight. I don’t see how the helmet was at fault or could have prevented the cuts.

TJ It looks to me like you are trying to find fault with helmets rather than be objective. No one is saying they are perfect.

Never wore a helmet as a child and survived ,however as a adult and having seen numerous smashed helmets both on threads like this,the internet and whilst working in bike shops I personally would not take the risk.

The cost and minimal weight penalisation is outweighed in my opinion by the extra protection added.
If head protection is as potentially pointless as made out on here someone better tell all the tradesmen on building sites there wasting their time.
All IMO.

I think the discussion is about whether a similar crash [same speed etc.] would have had the same or a better outcome sans lid

Really? There was me thinking it was about whether wearing a helmet is a good idea.

If head protection is as potentially pointless as made out on here someone better tell all the tradesmen on building sites there wasting their time.

But I don’t cycle underneath builders working with bricks and metal tools which might get dropped on my head.