So, I’ve had issues with my boss (line manager) before, he came in about 18 months after me, young, ambitious etc. He’s basically a ****t and that’s being kind, he’s been described as a bully by staff and even contractors that come in from outside the company, a control freak and a nasty little man. My working life has become miserable, I don’t look forward to going to work, it’s no fun being there as there’s a bit of an atmosphere when he’s around which is basically all the time. There’s no banter or laughing, not allowed to have fun.

My job is poorly paid, but I used to get lots of holiday, but he’s trying to change that by finding me more work to. Getting to work is also a pain taking 2 hours of my day, so when I think about the fact that I’m out the house 11 hours a day, only being paid for 7.5 of those with crap wages and treated like shit I’m left wondering why I’m doing this.

I’ve been looking for similar work for the last year or two but nothing has come up, so now after more moaning yesterday where he said he’d put in a complaint to HR about me for such minor things I’m thinking I’ll do anything just to get out of there, so questions are:

Has anyone just quit, handed in their notice, without another job to go to? I have to give 6 weeks notice so will be ok for 6 weeks and hope to find something in that time. If I don’t things could get a bit tight with a (small) mortgage to pay and general bills. But, I wonder if I should just have the attitude of ‘well, just get something like stacking shelves in local supermarket if it pays the bills and wait for the right job to come along’, or should I just stick it out longer. I really feel like handing in my notice today, irrational maybe?

Obviously I won’t want I reference from him, but now I’m wondering what sort of reference would HR give now, to be honest HR was a waste of time when I complained about him, but there is a hierarchy of senior managers, managers etc that get whatever they want in this place and everyone else is basically told if you don’t like it here feel free to leave. I have plenty of people at work from other departments who would happily give me a reference, but will this look bad if I don’t put down my line manager – I just don’t trust him!

So, again I know it’s my choice, but this place has always been great with advice and seeing things from another perspective or similar circumstances, what would you do or did you do? I just think life’s too short to put up with things like this, it’s affecting my own time again with losing sleep, worrying, running things through my head and being angry. Hoping typing all this out will help get it out of my head a bit.

Help me STW, you’re my only hope ….

Sorry to hear your in that situation (all too common unfortunately).
Ive seen this in the past, and in one case the line manager was asked to leave, as it was quickly recognised his effect on morale was negative and the staff turnover increased. But in another case, they did nothing, and in turn this guy worked his way up the ladder.
I don’t think you need “life advice”, you just have a difficult situation that needs some kind of resolution. It would be a shame if you left because of one person, so you could decide to make a complaint to HR, and if they respond negatively (i.e. do nothing), then you may as well leave. If he is cutting your annual leave, then the company could be liable.
You sounds like a great co-worker to have so I’m sure other companies would snap you up – and you may well be a lot more valued in your current company than you realise, so they may respond positively to a complaint.

Raise a grievance against your boss with HR. This will make them formally register the issue, and hopefully investigate fairly.

It sounds like you need to get out. Life’s to short and all that. I appreciate that is easy to say and hard to do when you have bills to pay but it really is true. Working for someone like that would be unlikely to get better. Also a long commute is a huge waste of time. All in a big chunk of your life that isn’t really of benefit to you. Financially there may be options like a payment holiday on the mortgage if you really can’t find work. As for the reference I believe the system is to just put the HR bod who will confirm that you worked there and what dates.

Edit. It might be best just to get out and move on but if you fancy fighting then a chat/complaint with HR might get you somewhere, might be extra stress for nothing. Best case may be a quick pay off which sees you out with a few quid

Encourage others to raise a grievance too if they feel bullied.

I’d be looking to get out, sounds shit.

I wouldn’t be worrying about references personally. Certainly in my experience they are so generic and vague these days as HR departments are worried about getting sued over bad references, so all many of them tend to do is confirm that you were employed by the company.

We have effectively near full employment at the moment. There is plenty of work out there (for the next couple of months st least) and life is too short. Start looking for a new job now and then leave when you have something sorted. You can then have some fun with your notice period. Good luck.

so all many of them tend to do is confirm that you were employed by the company

This, every reference I have ever filled in for ex staff has only asked to confirm job title and confirm dates they worked for me!

I just left my last PAYE job with nothing to go too and then went contracting for 18 months. Situation had become toxic due to management changes.
Oddly enough I bumped into him at the swimming pool last week and told him how happy I was now.

i’ve just done almost exactly the same, including raising a grievance and getting nowhere with it (small company….how do you raise a grievance to your line manager when he’s the cause of it and there’s no HR department other than his secretary who also does payroll), took advice from ACAS who are great for process but can’t give actual advice on strength or otherwise of case.

I then spoke to a lawyer re constructive dismissal but that rarely wins, creates major issues = you have to effectively pack in and leave otherwise how do you claim it’s that’s bad if you can stay for your notice, could cost a fortune and if you get another job in the meantime then the argument is that you haven’t really lost much as a result of leaving.

My advice – speak to ACAS and listen to their process advice, raise it formally with HR, butter it up a bit about the impact on your health, and see if you can ease them towards a settlement agreement which should at least buy you a bit of money to find something else.

I’ve got about 5 months of money, and I alternate between shitting myself and having slept better in the last few days than I have for months. But I used to have two problems, needing a new job and a toxic work environment. Now I’ve only got one.

Lots more to say, too much to type but PM me and I can give you a call and let you know what I found out.

ACAS may be helpful. On the reference question, it’s quite normal for people to put down HR contact and the company may well have a policy where all reference requests have to go to HR. Most HR departments will, if staffed by professionals, have a simple formula to responding to reference requests. A lot simply confirm the role you worked in and the dates of employments and a really brief reason for leaving (eg resigned, no other detail). Sometimes they will confirm number of days absent due to sickness. Mostly, though, they keep it factual because that’s what avoids getting them in trouble. If you do hand in your resignation you could then have a conversation with HR to confirm what their process is.

Possible case for constructive dismissal

https://www.gov.uk/dismissal/unfair-and-constructive-dismissal

https://www.contactlaw.co.uk/constructive-dismissal-cases.html

In my experience it takes about 3 months from deciding you want to leave to starting a new job. This includes looking, interviewing, notice period etc.

That, in my experience, is less time than it takes a big company to performance manage you out of the company if it came to it.

Make up your mind if you want to leave. If you do, then starting from there onwards your priority is looking for another job. Go into existing job with that mindset, do the bare minimum you have to do to get by, invest your time into your job search, not existing job. That means nothing to you now. Whatever your manager does just let it roll off your back.

I’ve only left a job once with nothing else lined up. It was risky but worked out in the end. Every job I’ve ever left I’ve ended up in a better position as a result. You will be fine, just keeping thinking to yourself, it will be alright soon. References are rarely checked these days, just put your company name and head office details as your referee. Most places just give out standard details such as job title, length of service, departments you worked in etc.

Is it care work?

Thanks for all the replies, especially on a nice sunny Saturday, I’ve just been swimming to burn off some energy and aim to get out on the bike later as well. appreciate the positive replies and good to know others have been through similar.

God to know I needn’t worry about the references, I’ll give the HR of the employer and get some the others down for references.

I think constructive dismissal was mentioned before but I think it’s hard to prove. I complained about him to HR a year or so ago, nothing was done, HR told me it was for us to sort it out, my unuion did get involved a bit but basically said our HR department is useless as they were currently trying to deal with another issue with someone else. I think he doesn’t take criticism well and lashes out, he then gave me the worst appraisal I’ve ever had in my life and I’m sure that was to just get back at me. He accused some contractors recently of making him look stupid as he wasn’t happy with the work they done, yesterday he accused me of undermining him because I was having a laugh with some colleagues.

Not care work btw.

Probably best to keep an eye out and carry on with the thoughts of leaving asap. I saw a few jobs yesterday that I’m going to look into today.

Now, why are we all out on our bikes.

If he’s already highly strung is it possible to turn the tables and break him? I had a similar boss years ago and HR were useless. I just made his life a mysery whilst skirting the edges of the company handbook. He was thick, which made it a easier. Ended up getting him to lose his shit big time in front of a whole bunch of witnesses. HR forced to investigate and everyone backed me up and raised issues with him too. He was an absolute bully.

Funny you should mention about breaking him, I was just thinking of that today. I’ve lent out 2 pieces of equipment recently, nothing special, think of it as a screwdriver and spanner and he complained that I shouldn’t have done, should have asked him first. He also complained I was seen sitting at the computer, now there’s not much going on at the moment, I’m up to date with anything I have to do, I’m twiddling my thumbs a bit but for most of the year we’re run off our feet, so he says I need to come and ask him for things to do – did this Friday and he asked me to do something that took me about 2 hours so I emailed the results and heard nothing back. So now I’m thinking that if anyone asks for anything I’ll direct them to him, and I’ll ask what he wants me to do, do it, then ask what he wants me to do, do it, ask again etc. all day long.

Years back I left a good job in telecoms, i was sick of getting sent from pillar to post and having an arse as a line manager.
I walked in one day put the computer on his desk , chucked him the car keys said its outside I quit. Within a couple of hours i had my first job behind a bar lined up, best move I ever made leaving that place

If it is a large company with a proper HR department it might be worth discussing stress/mental health with them – i.e. the impact this is having on you. It normally triggers a formal response that means there is a commitment to making changes. You could also take this up with the union. If you think bullying and harassment is involved you should have strong case for changes to be made.

It isn’t acceptable to be made to work in this type of environment and it is a failing of organisation/ability that it is being allowed to occur.

There’s a breaking point where you have to just quit, but if you’re not quite there yet it has to be a better bet to gut it out and properly step up the jobsearch [ie not just keep an eye out] – moving on from this position is going to be easier than from something like shelf-stacking.

HR are not your friends, btw. They exist to maximise the company’s exploitation of its human resources, and to protect the company from those human resources (at all costs). When you’re speaking to a HR person, imagine you’re talking to a particularly cold-blooded reptile, that will help your perspective on where you stand.

You can use HR to sort out a bad manager, but it needs to be a situation where the guy is unequivocally damaging the company, multiple people are calling them on it, and even then it’s usually a big, political job. Putting complaints in to HR that your boss is a **** won’t cause them to bat an eyelid.

My wife has been in the situation a few times. Last company tried it on, but as a ‘law graduate’ she sent in a grievance that had them stitched up, so the bosses paid her off – she got nearly 6 month’s pay, then got an temp job via an agency for a year – that’s about to finish, but she’s no regrets and loved the 1 year maternity over post.

I would set a fight going with HR – Light a bomb under them. They will have a bullying policy – use it. quote it at them in writing and to your bosses boss with examples of where your boss broke it.

Bullying is the ground to go after him on.

It will bring things to a head and in a few months one of you will have left – hopefully you with a nice big fat payoff to keep quiet.

It is not constructive dismissal. Just forget that. No where near the standard it needs to be

Don’t quit- that way he wins. Chinese rebellion ( ie taking every instruction literally, never showing initiative and referring everything to him will) drive him mad as well

Dunno if you’re out in the sticks or what but an hours each way would kill my work life balance and have me looking for a new job anyway!

Are you driving to work? If you find something local, even for less money you’ll save a fair wedge on commuting costs. I bloody love cycling to work 😀

As lots have said above leave when you can but in the meantime make his life as hard as you can, complain to HR, get signed off with stress if you can due to his bullying. Take it as far as you can or can be bothered with. If you want some real fun take him to one side in an office with no witnesses and tell him it’s all personal now and you’re gonna **** him over. If he reacts you’ve won, but keep pushing, keep making comments if he is that bad eventually he’ll bite as people like that can’t resist. I hate workplace bullies and they deserve everything they get.

Sounds like you have more reasons to leave than stay, and possibly enough even if the boss wasn’t a factor.

Divert your energy to finding something that makes you happy. Not worth stressing yourself out taking on some dickless manager, and probably not getting anywhere.

IMO.. If you want a stressful life, involved HR. If you want to leave, find a job (any job) & do it.
When you do go, try to leave on good terms as you never know what the future holds.

Work the system. Get signed off for stress, he’ll most likely get in touch, which is prohibited giving you further grounds for a bullying complaint.

Just lay the bait, mongs like him will always take it.

Keep a diary, just a wee note of what he did/said, date and time. In mine I’ve noted when my boss has been incompetent, hindered my work, prevented my progress, broken my contract and generally treated me differently to other members of staff. Although I didn’t have it to hand when I was called to an impromptu pre disciplinary meeting with HR after things came to a head, the mention of it seems to have improved things. It’s only been a few weeks and establishing a respectful relationship with my boss has been awkward but this past week he’s become more amiable and cooperative, he even gave me praise for the work I’m doing!

mongs like him will always take it.

Please don’t … as a father to a child who has Down Syndrome, that’s pretty insulting. I’m sure it wasn’t meant to be, but just saying …

Back to the OP … Getting into negative stuff & fighting the situation might get you a result, but will more likely give you added stress you don’t need. Step up the job search, think outside the box, do positive stuff for you in the meantime.

Thanks again all.

My commute is a mix of half drive half bike, takes an hour door to door as there’s only one road to where I work and it’s usually gridlocked. Sometimes I get the bus, like the last 4 months due to a back problem and again that’s an hour door to door. I’ve been on the lookout for something nearer for a while as I realise it’s not good.

Not sure if HR will do anything from previous experience so might not be worth the hassle, but if they get in touch with me about his complaint I’ll pursue it. He said others in the department had complained, there’s only 4 of us and the others have never said anything and we all get on really well, so I’m going to ask them when I get a chance to see if he’s lying or not. if he is I’ll be getting on to my union to see what they say about that as I’ve got a recording of him saying it.

Otherwise, I’m going to think and do positive things, try not to let this get me down and just take every day as it comes, whilst looking for another job, anything that’s interesting.

Been there got the t shirt and final warning followed by dismisal.

Basicly a power crazed woman manger,and a director,who wanted me to commit fraud after a break in we had a few crap tools taken,director wanted me to go through a tool catalogue,and list all the new power tools we needed,and submit it to the insurance company,i refused,i also became aware,that stock purchased did not go through into the building for long but went home with the manger.

From then on every little or big thing i did was wrong,more pointless work, piled on which of course was wrong and not good enough.

Finally i lost the plot, told her to shove her job and walked out,never to return, strangely i got a dismissal notice letter a day later by recorded delivery.

No job to go to, went to job centre to sign on and look for work, and got on a paid self employment course,and been self employed ever since.

As for future work,smart metering are always looking for staff,as are bus and coach companies,add in warehousing, and logistics,LGV driving,multiple drop driving etc.
Never looked back, walk out,and dont go back,best day of your life will be the day after.
Finally a depot i deal with,staff member, excellent at her job. she knew everything, nothing to much effort for her, good sence of humour etc,customers loved her.
New boss walks in re organises everything, bullying horrible attitude towards staff,no humour no chat,original staff member went off sick,then to a tribunal,many months later,new manager resigned overnight and left,better atmosphere now at depot.