Send in the army, if there are any left in this country, shoot to kill.

kimbers – Member

The Torys really do know how to bring a system down.

For the last 19 years we have had a Tory majority government in only the last 18 months.

But don’t let that stop you from blaming the Tories for everything.

Ernie, where have you been ?

It’s not been the same

Anyway, you can manage a lot in 18 months, I’ll also count the coalition years as mostly Tory with a bit of flim flam about lords and electoral reform on the side.

ernie welcome back I’ve missed your contributions (not just referring to the above). Hope all is well. You have missed nothing in the EU thread, we’ve just been saying the same stuff again and again for the last 3 months

Ultimately Austerity (aka ideological destruction of the state) has been a huge, huge mistake,

Alternatively we could end up like Greece. Then you’ll really see what the destruction of the state looks like.

Kimbers I definitely agree the cuts have been a problem.

For the last 19 years we have had a Tory majority government in only the last 18 months.

Hmmmm – when was it the prisons were all on fire last? The 1990s maybe?

The Strangeways riot caused a number of protests at prisons across England, Scotland and Wales, described as either solidarity actions or copycat riots. Approximately 100 remand prisoners at HM Prison Hull staged a sit-down protest in the exercise yard on 1 April, after hearing about the Strangeways riot on the radio.Disturbances occurred the same day at HM Prison Gartree, HM Prison Kirkham and HM Prison Rochester, although the Gartree protest had started three days earlier over conditions in the prison. There were minor disturbances at HM Prison Lindholme, HM Prison Low Newton and HM Prison Bedford on 2 April, HM Prison Durham, HM Prison Winchester and HM Prison Wandsworth on 4 April, and HM Young Offenders Institute Glen Parva on 6 April.

The weekend of 7 April and 8 April saw protests across the prison system. At HM Prison Leeds there was a sit-down protest after the arrival of over 100 prisoners who had been transferred from Strangeways. At HM Prison Dartmoor, between 100 and 120 prisoners wrecked D wing of the prison, and 12 prisoners also protested on the roof of C wing unfurling a banner that read “Strangeways, we are with you”. 32 prisoners from Dartmoor were transferred to HM Prison Bristol, where there was another major protest following their arrival. Up to 400 prisoners took over three wings of the prison, and held control of them for two days. 130 prisoners at HM Prison Cardiff destroyed cells, a twenty-hour rooftop protest took place at HM Prison Stoke Heath, and disturbances occurred at HM Prison Brixton, HM Prison Pentonville, HM Prison Stafford and HM Prison Shepton Mallet. A second protest took place at HM Prison Hull, where 110 prisoners staged a sit-down protest in the exercise yard.

Prisoners smashed windows at HM Prison Verne on 9 April, and 40 prisoners held a prison officer hostage for twenty-four hours after taking over a hall at HM Prison Shotts on 10 April. On 12 April, two teenage remand prisoners at HM Prison Swansea barricaded themselves into their cell for seventeen hours, and on 22 April between 80 and 100 remand prisoners staged an eighteen-hour rooftop protest at HM Prison Ashfield in Pucklechurch.

Ernie, where have you been ?

It’s not been the same

Got a tad bored with the disingenuous petty point scoring.

Shame Ernie – your contributions are welcomed if ( like me) you need tonot rise to the pont scorers.

Even if you hurt my feelings calling me a pale pink liberal *sniffs*

kimbers, there may or may not be a problem, but I don’t trust any propaganda that uses the ages-old trick of changing the x-axis.

There is a huge problem with prisons. As well as the folk that should be in there there are far too many folk with mental health issues and addiction issues none of which is helped by prison.

We imprison more of our population for lessor crimes than most other countries, prison simply does not work for most prisoners – it just makes their life choices even more limited and turns petty amateur criminals into professional serious criminals

I think Ernie called me ‘soft left’

ages-old trick of changing the x-axis.

❓

Yeah, along with the rest of the country.

out of sight out of mind

That’s the conservatives for ya

Kimbers I definitely agree the cuts have been a problem.

You reckon?
It’s a disaster. Actually it’s negligence. As I’m sure loddrick will attest, officers are no longer operating safely.
However, if you think that this is in any part due to the tory govt, you’re well wide of the mark. The prison service has been in the shit for a long, long time. Mainly because they’re treated like crap and headed up by people who are completely clueless as to what they do.

The shortfall in funding is partly down to the tory press again – any investment in rehabilitation or indeed in the prisons service at all is met with ” tellys for all prisoners” ” Prison holiday camp” type headlines.

‘The better the actual state of our prisons is known and understood,’ she wrote, ‘the more clearly will all men see the necessity of these arrangements by which they may be rendered schools of industry and virtue’.

Written 200 years ago (almost) – little if any progress since.

Interesting graphs. Prison population roughly stable under Thatcher/Major govts, doubled under Blair/Brown, and again only slight increase under the coalition/Tories

So what was the driver for the vast prison population increase under Labour?

theres a government paper on that rise which began in 93 under Major.

The problem/reason is appalling PPT skills (or lack of them)? 😉

, prison simply does not work for most prisoners

Works for the public. If they are in jail they aren’t committing crime outside. My son was robbed at knifepoint. Offender got 3 months. I’m quite happy he got time. Happy for my taxes to pay for enough prisons and staff.

To get the jail for non violent crimes you almost always need to be a serial offender who has run out of non custodial options.

theres a government paper on that rise which began in 93 under Major

Useful link, thanks.

So what was the driver for the vast prison population increase under Labour?

Immigrants init

irc – Member

Interesting graphs. Prison population roughly stable under Thatcher/Major govts, doubled under Blair/Brown,

Not true, I think you’re misreading the numbers- population under Major fell slightly, then rose from a little over 40000 to 60000 by the time he left office. About half of the doubling you attribute to Blair/Brown was actually under Major.

I’d be interested in the G4S angle on this one. From what I’ve read about them at this particular prison they seem to (unsurprisingly) pay rock bottom and under-staff the prison. Let’s not forget that this bunch of spivs also claimed they could sort out the security for the Olympics and the army had to be called in to bail them out.

Someone has got to make Labour electable and get rid of this bunch of tories before everything gets flogged off to the highest bidder, irrespective of whether they can actually do the work. This current bunch are going way beyond what even Thatcher considered safe in trying to privatise public services so their mates can make a packet before it all collapses and the Police/Army etc have to take temporary control before it is taken back under the public sector.

The governmnet should redeploy all those naughty southern train guards, they have the right name so wouldnt need new name badges, and they have huge experience of opening and closing doors securely.

Too many wrong-uns in jail. More nice gentlemen crooks required.

kimbers – Member
ages-old trick of changing the x-axis.

❓

Look at the graphs – they are all the same shape, which implies they are related in some way. But look at the x-axis (the bottom line) – three of them run from 2010 to 2016, but one runs from 1900 to 2015…

What they seem to be trying to show (by a cheap trick) is that the rise in prison population (1900-2015) is directly related to the rise in prison assaults and self-harm (2010-2016), but the evidence *here* doesn’t show that. It might be true, there could well be a relation, but the graphs you’ve posted are a sleight of hand, a con trick.

Kicking off again a prison on isle of sheppey wing over run, fires started and a young offenders prison also experiencing trouble tonight.

Chris Grayling should be sent in first to every riot, to talk them down

its only fair

If anyone’s on Twitter I’d suggest following @prisonuk.

He wrote a good post here too:Kicking Off… Why Prison Riots Happen

given prisoners have access to the media and the telly letting them know the system is bursting at the seams and the system is in near meltdown would inevitably lead to more of these incidents its like telling the local chaves when you are going on holiday only these are the really really naughty ones

Prison population is rising whilst funding and front line staff are declining

Difficulties like this is the inevitable consequence

Chris Grayling should be sent in first to every riot, to talk them down

This, absolutely spot on.

Although I said that waaay back in a different sentence (see what I did there) That Nobwhipe of a w@nkstain on his mothers pants should be chopped up into little bits for what he’s caused in HMP.

I’m reckoning by what people say, that I’m the ONLY actual prison officer that admits it on this forum.
I pound the wings in a Cat C jail every day (well I’m part time OK?) If anyone needs to ask a particular question about if the system is working, Email in profile.

That Nobwhipe of a w@nkstain on his mothers pants should be chopped up into little bits

Is that lag talk ?

You are Charlie Salvador AKA Charles Bronson and I claim my bag of drugs.

Maybe you know more than me then Ernie? You been ‘working away’ for a while?

My knowledge is purely based on watching Porridge.

I can’t image Barraclough saying “That Nobwhipe of a w@nkstain on his mothers pants should be chopped up into little bits”. But I could be wrong.

My knowledge is purely based on watching Porridge.

I kind of already knew that.

Either get a job as a screw or be committed by a court to a custodial sentence, then you may get the idea.

Well I was hoping you would tell me if it was lag talk. I don’t think I’ll bother getting a job as a screw to find out.

Well I was hoping you would tell me if it was lag talk. I don’t think I’ll bother getting a job as a screw to find out.

It’s not lag talk you divvy, the vast majority of lags haven’t the faintest idea who Grayling is!

Why not be a screw? The money’s fantastic. Could you do it? You could be a catalyst in someone’s rehabilitation, think of the rewards.