How an employee or pupil gets to school is is no concern or liability of theirs.

I suspect this is incorrect and that schools have some sort of duty of care to try and ensure that routes to school are safe. Parents can presumably override that, but that doesn’t mean that schools don’t have to give it some thought.

But as others have said, banning something because other factors make it insufficiently safe is a stupid thing to do.

I’m a chair of governors at a primary school, we don’t allow cycling to work. Storage could be sorted, but we are on the junction of two busy roads, and the council’s traffic safety people advised against permitting in their risk assessment.

This *has* to be a troll for all of the reasons already mentioned. I would be genuinely speechless if my employer tried something like that!

its certainly none of their business how employees get to work and I think if they held a pupil perfectly capable of walking home safely after hours because no adult was there when the child has the parents approval to walk home then they would have some serious questions to answer

I suspect this is incorrect and that schools have some sort of duty of care to try and ensure that routes to school are safe.

Nope. How would a school affect the roads around the school?

Regarding the age for leaving school on their own. Each school will have their own policy based on a number of factors e.g. kids under safeguarding or at risk, location of school, general level of need etc. For example it could give them a rare opportunity to meet parent’s who don’t normally interact with the school.

Our primary school allows kids from about the age of 8 or 9 to walk home on their own. I think I walked home on my own from about the age of 6 or 7. But this was in a green leafy middle class village in the South East. Although it was the 70’s so nonce central. Think my sister had some guy flash her and we had the police round but that’s as bad as it got.

Nope. How would a school affect the roads around the school?

By feeding their travel plans back to the council to ensure that roads around the school are created / modified taking into account the school’s travel plan? By encouraging patterns of behaviour that reduce traffic around the school? By working with the council to determine the safest routes for people on foot/scooter/bike/car/bus?

its certainly none of their business how employees get to work

I don’t know for sure, but I bet public sector employers have a duty to their workers to promote safe travel. E.g. a government building entrance that required employees to cross a dual-carriageway on foot would not stand.

To be clear, I’m suggesting that the school has a responsibility to provide, not to dictate or enforce.

I suspect this is incorrect and that schools have some sort of duty of care to try and ensure that routes to school are safe.

Schools can only offer guidance, for example a voluntary one-way system (primary has one), and our local secondary does put cones out in a relatively narrow access road when there’s a main event like parents evening (although I expect they’re only ‘advisory’). Of course school can raise issues with Local Authority Highways who can get paint and signs out once enough pedestrians get run over.

PTA/ Fund-raising approach seems a good call, especially as you have a mostly off-road ride in to mitigate safety issues.

Our primary was also on a busy road, busy enough that the local authority wouldn’t allow bikeability on safety grounds. Anyway a few of us got onto it [years of stuff] and there is a community highways scheme getting installed now and a drop to a 30mph limit. My kids have now got older and left primary, but hopefully lots more will cycle as there is a big cycle store right by the school gate.
A few of us cycled with kids anyway back then, but it would be good to see if the highway improvements increase those numbers.

I suspect this is incorrect and that schools have some sort of duty of care to try and ensure that routes to school are safe.

Nope. How would a school affect the roads around the school?

Especially as it’s very common these days for pupils to travel across whole cities to get to school, not just go around the corner to the local school.

I don’t know for sure, but I bet public sector employers have a duty to their workers to promote safe travel. E.g. a government building entrance that required employees to cross a dual-carriageway on foot would not stand.

Public sector in the past have tried to intervene in this, and it’s now biting them on the arse where staff are refusing to return to the office if it involves travelling on public transport with high levels of Covid infections.

What responsibilities employers think they have, or think they should have, are not the same as their actual legal liabilities.

…and there’s a big difference between saying that an employer shouldn’t put their main entrance in a dangerous place, or actively promote dangerous behaviour, and saying that an employer has the right to ‘ban’ perfectly legitimate travel choices outside of work hours and premises.

and saying that an employer has the right to ‘ban’ perfectly legitimate travel choices outside of work hours and premises

Let’s start with the premise that you’re more likely to pick up an infectious disease on public transport – we can ban people from using that. And seeing that the fatality rate for pedestrians is higher than that of cyclists, we’d probably need to ban walking as well. That would surely include walking from your parking space to your desk? Or from the coffee machine to your desk..

@sc-xc I crashed my bike on the way to work last winter, just lost the front wheel on some ice with less than half a mile to go. Hurt my knee and elbow.
My employer hasn’t even bothered coming up with a risk assessment for our commutes so must be liable. Could you point me towards the legislation that says this please as I would like to make a claim against them.

I suspect this is incorrect and that schools have some sort of duty of care to try and ensure that routes to school are safe.

Bolleaux.

It is not a schools job to design traffic flows, safe crossings, bike lanes etc.

They can work closely with a local authority to ensure that thier pupils needs are met.

I’m a chair of governors at a primary school, we don’t allow cycling to work. Storage could be sorted, but we are on the junction of two busy roads, and the council’s traffic safety people advised against permitting in their risk assessment.

You don’t allow staff to cycle to work?

Seriously?

Let’s start with the premise that you’re more likely to pick up an infectious disease on public transport – we can ban people from using that. And seeing that the fatality rate for pedestrians is higher than that of cyclists, we’d probably need to ban walking as well. That would surely include walking from your parking space to your desk? Or from the coffee machine to your desk.

And obesity causes more deaths long term, so let’s ban any inactive such as driving.

All these statements and schools ‘banning’ is based on a poor risk deficit model, where all rimmediate rsk and liability has to reduced to nil.

This is both impossible and by not taking a risk Vs benefit approach, leaves many at greater risk long term.

Our school has both open and covered cycle / scooter parking.

Get that Chris Boardman on the case. It’s his sort of thing.

Someone on here must know him.

could you ride with them on a bike that allows you to take their bike back home with you?

Mine rode on the back of a kiddy back tandem with a tagalong. At school fete I gave rides and almost the entire school rode that tandem up and down the village.

There are always funds available for school bike storage facilities. Just saying.

Lack of space/funds for storage?
How big is the staff car park and white line painting wouldn’t have been cheap

Elf and saefti gorn maddd!

I’m on a board of governors and we don’t get to tell the staff or parents what they can do. That’s the job of the head and the senior management team.
They might ask our opinion as ‘critical friends’ but we couldn’t enforce a policy.
We could, however, write a letter to the council asking them to engage with us and the head about a dangerous road situation near the school to see if it could be improved to allow more children and staff to cycle safely.

@sc-XC needs to come back and explain what the hell is going on.

(Apologies to the OP for getting a bit OT)

Thanks all. Just for the record, I do cycle in with them. We can get to school entirely off-road except for one road crossing in the village which is pretty busy at 8.45am.

Just to be clear, you do also cycle home with your youngest too?

As others have said, all schools I know of locally won’t let Yrs R(1)-4 leave without an adult escort, no matter what mode of transport they use. Yrs 5-6 start to get dispensation as part of prep for big school.

Chair of Govs of a village primary; move to a new site a couple of years ago saw us make provision for covered secure bike and scooter parking (with cctv) for every pupil.

I appreciate we were lucky both regarding available space and opportunity, but ‘build it and they will come’ and all that

Thick end of £5M new school site project now has cycle path and shelters……..oh, and classrooms & other stuff too pic.twitter.com/TLVIX3L3A4

— Simon.Rhino No.5 (@RhinoFive) September 27, 2018

As others have said, all schools I know of locally won’t let Yrs R(1)-4 leave without an adult escort, no matter what mode of transport they use.

Id love to see that tested in court. Nowt do do with me as I am childfree but I think that is absurd

As others have said, all schools I know of locally won’t let Yrs R(1)-4 leave without an adult escort, no matter what mode of transport they use.

Id love to see that tested in court. Nowt do do with me as I am childfree but I think that is absurd

Pretty much standard round here. Younger kids only supposed to leave with an agreed carer. I don’t think its legally enforceable though.

Who’d be a teacher / head?

Id love to see that tested in court.

If you don’t supervise who the pupils leave with, you’ll be catigated / liable for them falling into the hands of Jimmy Saville. But if you do try and exercise some control of the most vulnerable (4 year olds), you get castigated for trying to exercise control.

FFS.

Pretty much standard round here. Younger kids only supposed to leave with an agreed carer. I don’t think its legally enforceable though.

Same at our primary school in foundation or KS1. Not sure what would happen if someone couldn’t collect their 4yo. I’d be interested to know.

It doesn’t have to be legally enforceable, it only has to be school policy, one of many you agree to by sending your children to that school. If you don’t agree with it then you have the option to remove your child from that school.

Not sure what would happen if someone couldn’t collect their 4yo. I’d be interested to know.

Teachers stay behind, contact parents/carers etc.

And wot @andrewreay said

Our primary school actively encourage walking, scooting etc. but is is a small village school which is really good. However most of the reception children can’t walk whilst concentrating not to bump into each other let alone riding!

Last week I watched a year 5 fly down the path on his scooter and straight off the curb without looking or trying to stop and into the side of a car causing the driver to almost have a heart attack!

If the school suddenly said no cycling/ scooting I don’t think I would really care as there are many more important things to get wound up over.

If the reason is lack of safe storage, then the obvious argument is that you’re literally asking us to not drive, but providing nowhere to store bikes/scooters to make the walk easier for little legs. A shelter near the entrance isn’t exactly a huge cost and to be honest the sort of thing parents might help fundraise for if the school is too hard-up to pay for itself.

Fifty-odd years ago I wanted to cycle to school, but I wasn’t allowed to, because I lived within a mile of the school, and there just wasn’t enough space to store all the bikes if everyone was allowed to ride, because there were somewhere around 350 students at the school.
It’s all well and good saying all the school needs to do is provide more storage, but anyone with an ounce of common sense should realise that most schools have probably zero space available that isn’t already allotted to other things, like, for example, playing fields, classrooms, indoor sports, etc.

As others have said, all schools I know of locally won’t let Yrs R(1)-4 leave without an adult escort, no matter what mode of transport they use.

Id love to see that tested in court. Nowt do do with me as I am childfree but I think that is absurd

Agreed.

My children are now in their 20’s but their primary school had a similar policy. However, they did at times walk home together from when they were 7 and 5 years old. It was just a matter of informing the school that was our arrangement.
Also they used to often cycle to school, only one other child regularly cycled iirc. But then more and more began to, cycle parking was installed, walking buses arrranged etc etc. Now whenever I go past, I see hundreds of children actively travelling to school.
OP I think you have the perfect opportunity whilst your children are at the school to bring about a positive change. I think I would initially look for similarly minded parents, then come up with a plan on how things could be improved.

Last week I watched a year 5 fly down the path on his scooter and straight off the curb without looking…

Kids be kids. You can expect them to do these things. Spaces should be designed accordingly.

If the school suddenly said no cycling/ scooting I don’t think I would really care as there are many more important things to get wound up over.

It’s not just about cycling to school. On a wider level it’s arguably an infringement of human rights. We’re living in the only time in history where kids cannot run around and play in their home environment. And on a societal level it’s barely even being talked about. Which in itself speaks a lot about where our values are.

Who’d be a teacher / head?

Mrs Sandboy is a headteacher of a Primary School and you are right, it’s a full on nightmare!
Just to counter the crazy position of the OP, her school teach every child to ride a bike in KS1 and has trained a member of staff in BC balance/Bikeability.
The school recently secured a grant from the local council to build a specific off road cycle track with optional technical section through the forest school area so the children can develop their skills.
As a result of this, as many as 50% of kids now cycle/scoot to school and love riding bikes for PE lessons.

it’s arguably an infringement of human rights

Oh, and GDPR, equal opportunities, anti-discrimination, health and safety and any other buzz word legislation bingo you can think of.

Some poor sod has to navigate a path to looking after the children that spend their time getting educated outside the home, and increasingly whilst they make the journeys there and back.

There’s no perfect solution, but saying that a 9 year old needs a known, trusted adult to escort them home is far from the most absurd thing I’ve heard today.

If you don’t supervise who the pupils leave with, you’ll be catigated / liable for them falling into the hands of Jimmy Saville.

Utterly absurd excuse

Stranger danger is almost non existent and Saville was known to the schools and invited in. He was not a stanger lurking outside schools

this is all about a moral panic by people who do not understand risk assessment

there is no more danger – indeed probably less to kids now than in the 70s

Scotroutes – what happens if its the only school in the town? i take your point but its still IMO a huge overreach by schools

If it’s a question of storage that’s easily solved. Drive your car to school with your bike in the back. Park outside the school and cycle home. Then cycle back to school with your kids. After seeing them into school, put the bikes on back of car and drive home. Every ones a winner! 😁

TJ I’m going to bite. Hopefully to try and illuminate a bigger issue.

You, by your admission are not well versed in this space so please don’t accuse those doing their utmost to keep children safe ‘absurd’.

Saville was me being sensationalist.

And whilst remote, it is a risk that cannot be ignored by those with a duty of care. That is risk assessment in action.

Would you fancy using low likelihood as a defence if you were the one in the dock for releasing a child to a stranger danger that went wrong? It would almost certainly amount to negligence or worse in a UK court.

In any case, the bigger, live, real issue is custodial disputes.

The ‘common sense’ or ‘stands to reason’ argument is great from an armchair. Rather less so in court or across the sofa from a distraught parent.

Kids being abducted by parents is a lot more common than you’d think.

Appreciate this is all a bit off topic, but hopefully this helps illustrate the genuine challenges schools Dave every single day.

Nope. How would a school affect the roads around the school?

Said someone who doesn’t pass the traffic carnage at 8.45 outside every school.

most schools

Citation required

Stranger danger is almost non existent

We get an alert about once a year about people in cars or vans approaching kids, the last one about four weeks ago. Police all over the place pulling vans that met the description after several kids approached.

Just because you don’t hear about it it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

Also schools practice lockdown drills at least annually, for mine this week.

there is no more danger – indeed probably less to kids now than in the 70s

I suspect traffic is a significantly higher risk, everywhere has more and it’s traveling faster or bumper to bumper