Viewing 33 posts - 1 through 33 (of 33 total)
  • Powerline adapters and interference?
  • munkster
    Free Member

    We’ve had big trouble with our BT line and PlusNet have been pretty good and we’ve had BT engineers out etc, they’ve found various things outside that they’ve fixed, but one thing that they said could be causing our router to reset by itself (the main issue) is interference from the powerline adapter things I’ve had plugged in for the last four years. Why they would stay playing up now I don’t know, but my Q is, are they all created equal? If mine are four years old (link below) would a new pair be less prone to causing interference by virtue of being newer or are they pretty much static things and new ones no different? Thanks for any help!

    These are what I have: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01M16AZTI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    xora
    Full Member

    They do fail, had a few fail on me over the years!

    munkster
    Free Member

    What does “fail” mean in this context though? It’s still “working” (as in, providing a wired connection via the powerline adapter) but do you mean fail as in “borks other things”?

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    robola
    Full Member

    I wouldn’t believe a word that Plusnet told me, easily the most technically inept broadband company I have ever dealt with. During a conversation with a complaints handler following a lengthy period of no internet at all (their fault, not BT line issue) I put it to her that Plusnet was a broadband company for people that didn’t really need broadband – she agreed.

    jimw
    Free Member

    I have Powerline connectors with a Plusnet router. No interference issues at all.
    I have mixed experiences with their help desk, the ‘gatekeepers’ for want of a better phrase are not very technically minded, but once I was passed to a more senior person it has been fine.
    We have been reconnected after being without internet for 4 weeks due to an Openreach issue, water in an underground connector, now there is a company with a woeful customer service record.

    munkster
    Free Member

    @robola, I am not inclined to disagree immediately, but after a new router, microfilter then complete new faceplate in the house, what else is there (genuine Q) that PlusNet can do, if BT say that the line is generally fine? Could I have just been unlucky with two routers that don’t work?

    When I say they’ve been “pretty good” I mean that they have always responded to me, they have escalated it when their initial suggestions didn’t work, and have arranged three BT engineer visits. Clearly I would prefer none of the above and it “just work”, but I have a nagging feeling that there is something causing problems that are outside of either PlusNet or BT’s control, hence why I am looking again at the powerline adapter… My worry is that I go “you guys SUCK” and switch provider then find the exact same thing happens.

    xora
    Full Member

    What does “fail” mean in this context though? It’s still “working” (as in, providing a wired connection via the powerline adapter) but do you mean fail as in “borks other things”?

    Ive had ones just fail full stop, ones be intermittent after a couple of years, and ones that would do what you are describing and mess up connections on router.

    munkster
    Free Member

    @xora maybe I’ll look into new ones then, they’re not exactly “cheap”, but if they work they are.

    robola
    Full Member

    To expand a little on my Plusnet problems:

    Electrical work in the house, power switched off 2 or 3 times. The router never reconnected. Pretty common thing for a router to need to deal with, a power blip.

    Contacted Plusnet, they said there was a line problem. It will be 3 days for us to book a slot for our own staff to run the right kind of line check. Result was that they identified a hung communication session between them and BT. Suspiciously like dodgey software at their end. Booked a BT engineer. Engineer comes and he has no idea what Plusnet are wanting him to do. He called Plusnet Openreach facing fault line, got put through to a normal advisor who asked to speak to me. Why me, it is you guys that ordered an Openreach engineer? What do you want him to do? Eventually escalated to somebody who could actually speak to Openreach. Fixed after more than a week.

    Pretty well known in the IT industry that they borked their new billing system and all the contractors left. So they were unable to join the automatic compensation scheme like they promised. https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2019/03/billing-problems-continue-to-afflict-customers-of-uk-isp-plusnet.html

    Poor quality router to boot. Could never hold a wi-fi call without dropping it.

    Left as soon as I could.

    robola
    Full Member

    @munkster They really do suck I’m afraid.

    munkster
    Free Member

    @robola – Well, fair enough. Doesn’t change the original query about the powerline adapter I guess, still better i have one that doesn’t compromise anything. IT boys at work say Zen Internet, who did you go to?

    robola
    Full Member

    I think it is unlikely that your powerline adapter would cause your router to reset. I was just providing context that they have pretty ropey software in general. Probably poor router firmware too.

    Zen are obviously top of the tree in reputation, but pricey. I’ve always found Sky to be excellent. You just have to fend off the TV cross selling.

    munkster
    Free Member

    Hmm yeah, I found Virgin Media to be brilliant but they were robbing me blind with no hint of giving an inch when I asked for a better price, hence now on a BT line product. Really would rather not Sky for the above reason more than any ideological one, PlusNet *is* cheap £22.99 a month, but clearly if doesn’t work, it’s expensive. It’s a poser though, because it was working perfect for a good 2-3 years before the first half of this year, so *something* has changed. BT bloke said that the interference *could* reset the router, what do I know better to say that’s rubbish? Guess that’s why I’m asking here 😉 To my knowledge, the PlusNet router is a rebadged BT one as well? Thanks anyway, food for thought.

    Flaperon
    Full Member

    My neighbour’s powerline adapters used to knock out my broadband. I wouldn’t touch them and think that a modern mesh Wifi system is probably just as good for 99% of the time.

    ratherbeintobago
    Full Member

    PlusNet and powerline here with no probs, but I do have a DrayTek router.

    Starting to replace with mesh though.

    codybrennan
    Free Member

    Can you explain what you mean by ‘reset’?

    munkster
    Free Member

    @flaperon, it’s to connect something that needs a wired connection and that I don’t ideally want in the same location as the router.


    @codybrennan
    , when you hold the “reset” button on the router and it resets it. It does that. Without me having to press the button 😉

    whitestone
    Free Member

    My neighbour’s powerline adapters used to knock out my broadband

    Eh? If they are doing that then there’d be a lot more kit being borked.

    codybrennan
    Free Member

    So the router is resetting, and not the line? Thanks. And its 4 years old? I’d be buying an isolating socket bar/extension, plugging that into it, and see how you go.

    And if you can get your hands on a replacement router, try that too.

    I can think of ways PLAs can kick lines over, but not router hardware.

    munkster
    Free Member

    @codybrennan – the router is resetting yes, but it’s a brand new (well, couple of months) router because I got them to send me one, old one maybe 3 years old. Made no difference. I mean, I say the router is resetting, I’m not actually sure what the difference would be if it was the line resetting, it behaves exactly like when you press the reset button, that’s all. Any more than that, I don’t know?

    I’ll have to google what you mean by isolating socket bar/extension TBF but presume I’ll know what it is when I look it up.

    Flaperon
    Full Member

    Eh? If they are doing that then there’d be a lot more kit being borked.

    Powerline adapters and the VDSL (your “fibre to the cabinet” broadband) frequency ranges overlap.

    In general you won’t notice it but if you use powerline adapters to shift a lot of data the amount of radio noise from the adapters is huge. Any AM radio can pick it up (which is how I tracked down the source). Any point in the telephone cabling where the twisted pairs are broken out will work as an aerial.

    We tested it where he started copying from his PC to a NAS over powerline adapters, and the SNR ratio on my broadband connection would plummet while the error rate went through the roof.

    All broadband bar true fibre-optic is basically a radio signal trapped in a copper wire. Virgin Media can offer higher speeds because they’re using coaxial cabling which is less susceptible to interference.

    IA
    Full Member

    Plusnet/BT routers are tripe.

    Only 2? I got through 5 in a year before getting a third party one that’s been totally fine.

    munkster
    Free Member

    I’ve been taking a quick look at this mesh wifi thing (eg. https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-Deco-S4-3-pack-Beamforming/dp/B0851D6MXY/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=mesh+wifi&qid=1623524281&sr=8-3) – wondering if that might be the way forward? Looks like that one has a wired ports that I could plug the one thing I was using the PLAs for…

    Any thoughts on this? Or do i need to start a new thread? 😉

    zilog6128
    Full Member

    All the free WiFi routers are poor, you get what you pay for!

    codybrennan
    Free Member

    I think I’d be disconnecting the PLAs for a while- 24 hours? and see if the problem goes away. Yes you’ll lose some local connectivity for what’s on the end of them, but for a day of testing its worth doing.

    munkster
    Free Member

    @codybrennan, yep, I did, for quite a few days, and it was working great. Thought I’d plug them back in to see what happened and bosh, it was resetting all the time again. So I removed the PLAs again, but now it’s still resetting so am wondering if I needed to wait a while with the PLAs in to let things settle down at all. The problem seemed to return so quickly that it seemed conclusive, but now not so sure.

    jeffl
    Full Member

    Was going to say unplug the power line adaptors and test it, but you’ve just done that. I’d also disconnect the router from the power for 10 minutes then plug that in and see if it keeps resetting. If not then I’d say the power line adaptors are your problem.

    As an aside I moved from Plusnet to Zen over a year ago as the Plusnet router was pants, Zen came with a good router and although it cost more month on month it worked out cheaper than getting a new expensive router and staying with Plusnet.

    Cougar
    Full Member

    I mean, I say the router is resetting, I’m not actually sure what the difference would be if it was the line resetting

    Then you need to accurately define the symptoms you’re seeing rather than making up words. What exactly happens?

    Does the Internet connection drop? You’d likely see that on the router manifesting as red / orange coloured LEDs instead of green / white or whatever, and you should still be able to connect to the management interface to see a WAN=down status. Is the router rebooting and you’re waiting for it to power back up? Are you actually just losing Wi-Fi connectivity and the external connection is fine, does a wired connection still work? Something else?

    As presented I would be surprised if ‘interference’ from powerline adapters were crashing the router. I can wholly believe that a brand new ISP-provided router is toss. But until you describe what you’re experiencing we’re all guessing.

    I removed the PLAs again, but now it’s still resetting

    If you’ve removed the adapters and it’s still problematic then it’s not the adapters.

    munkster
    Free Member

    @cougar – come again? Making up words? It is resetting. Like if I press the reset button, the exact same thing. Anyway, correct me if I’m wrong, but I came on here to ask about PLAs and whether they are all created equal, and whether they might deteriorate, not to ask anyone to diagnose my wider internet/wifi/router issues. Thanks anyway.

    ratherbeintobago
    Full Member

    @munkster As above mesh might be the way forward.

    I’ve currently got two mesh ‘points’, both DrayTek. Seems to work very well; with a third would be able to cover the whole house (including the one thing that needs Powerline) but might not reach the garage for Zwift duties, which Powerline does.

    Of course it might just be that I’ve not encountered the problems yet…

    pk13
    Full Member

    The line can reset as well as your router.
    If I remember on the plussnet white hub
    Red power constant= borked hub
    Red power flashing then solid green reboot

    Solid red internet line fault or home disconnected
    Flashing amber internet handshake
    Green ok (or the B symbol light)

    And I’ve seen home plugs reboot even a badly made patch cable fry a sky hub. Best one was a Arial cable zip tied to a patch cable that had the sheathing cut back about 100mm from the boot.
    Amazing how much static electricity comes down your Arial feeds 🙂

    So basically don’t rule anything out unplug one thing at a time

    Cougar
    Full Member

    It is resetting. Like if I press the reset button, the exact same thing.

    I don’t know what the ‘reset’ button does on your particular router. I could make a reasonably confident assumption, but that’s not helpful to you if I’m wrong.

    I came on here to ask about PLAs and whether they are all created equal… not to ask anyone to diagnose my wider internet/wifi/router issues.

    Well, that’s a bit weird but OK. No they aren’t, many of them are crap though TP-Link are half decent, and any electrical device can develop a fault.

    Uh. You’re welcome?

    Flaperon
    Full Member

    When you say it was “resetting”, do you mean it was going off completely (for example, you couldn’t access the router admin web pages), or was it dropping the internet connection and then reconnecting, which takes about the same length of time.

    You’ll probably want to chat to PlusNet (or whoever your ISP is) once you’ve taken the powerline adapters out and ask them to reset your DLM profile, if they can. Every time your connection dropped the speed will have been gradually reduced in an attempt to make it stable.

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