Oh it will be. Worst comes to the worst I go off sick, use up all my remaining sick pay and then retire but that would leave me having to do agency work not NHS in the future to make up for my meager pension

I am quite touched by the expressions of good will – and had a good laugh at some of the suggestions – a professional dogwalker!

Surely the optimal solution is being redeployed to duties which will allow a full recovery – for however long that takes – and then a return to normal duties.
That must make sense for both parties?
C’mon TJ, don’t roll over; get the union to fight for this on your behalf.
Nil illegitimi carborundum.

Frank – do not worry – I roll over for no one.

today was not what I expected. some pondering to do on tactics but me and my missus know more about this than my bosses which gives me the ability to play what is a poor hand well. Last time I was in a similar position I was entitled to a £400 payoff – I walked away with £7000 after 7 months on garden leave

Redeplyment is not a good idea – if a redeployment fails you are automatically sacked after 3 months – a temporary relocation is what is needed

OK – I used the wrong terminology on redeployment; temporary relocation is what it is.
Doesn’t change my comments.
Unions have solicitors and in-house specialists; use them.

I’m assuming you’ve contacted the SPPA? https://pensions.gov.scot/nhs/retiring-nhs/ill-health-retirement

I’ve spoke a them quite a lot lately 18 “working” days to go they are generally helpful.

I have bruneep. they can only give forecasts a year ahead tho

Seems like if you handle the situation as well as you did today you can spin this out until your chosen retirement date. On full pay and staying where you are.

A few things from my past experiences:

1) Never let them know what your prime objectives are
2) Always go into a meeting with a prime objective and a fall-back position
3) Remember, whenever you have a choice of actions, always do what the enemy doesn’t want you to do in preference to what you would like to (Sun Tzu)
4) This is no time for emotions

if I am injured again at work whilst working withing the guidelines given they will be in big shit.

and you will also have to take a share of that shit for doing something you know you shouldn’t be doing

Have a month off sick then go on holiday for eight weeks.

(-:

TJ – hope some sleep has helped crystallise your thoughts. Looking back at this thread, and thinking about some of the thoughts expresssed, are you happy with this staying in the public arena ? Anything in it that they could use ? Maybe worth getting it taken down ?

Start googling stress symptoms and then get a stress sicknote till retirement kicks in.
Riding your bike is somthing that can relive stress 🙂

I hope something can be resolved for you TJ.

(Which one’s the tongue in cheek emogee?)
Be careful what you wish for, you do realise TJ being signed off sick until retirement will leave more time for squabbling on here? We’ll have to change the forum name to tjtrackworld.
The best outcome for all concerned would be a shoulder treatment plan that involves both hands being cuffed behind your back.
Only kidding, hope all goes well.

Formal request put in for all the information they hold about this – they ambushed me with a report (I did not know about nor gave permission to be created) yesterday and I dispute some of the things they said was in the report.

Union contacted. Union rep I spoke to quite happy with what I have done so far.

I may of course just go completely radio rental and turn up for the next meeting with my pants on my head and a pencil up my nose.

Union full time officer now in contact. He is going to represent me. He is going to push hard on a few issues. Seems somewhat combative and knows all the individuals involved and the workplace.

I think that has just really put the cat amongst the pigeons. The bosses should not have tried to bullshit me and to ambush me. Tsk tsk

I don’t think anything much will happen in the next week or two but I will update if / when anything interesting / funny happens

Once again – thanks for the advice

Good work so far tj

If I ever have any problems with my bosses can I ask you to represent me?

Of course! I am not terribly good at conciliation tho 😉

Re minutes etc, did you not record the whole meeting?

No

I went into the meeting being co operative and non confrontational. Openly recording does not go down well.

I may of course just go completely radio rental and turn up for the next meeting with my pants on my head and a pencil up my nose.

Don’t forget to say “wibble.”

Be careful what you wish for, you do realise TJ being signed off sick until retirement will leave more time for squabbling on here?

I’ve come for the 10 minute argument!

Openly recording does not go down well.

Although it leaves very little room for confusion over what was said / agreed.

Openly recording does not go down well.

Forcing people out of a job or denying them their full pension also does not go down well.

If you won’t take a corroborating witness who will take notes then at least insist on taking an accurate record of the meeting

IIRC, you are legally entitled to recording a conversation that involves yourself – management policies may have some sort of get out clause for this IANAL

TJ: I might have skim read and missed the initial cause of your injury, but are you aware of Industrial Injury/Disablement

LINK

andy – lifting my bike over a fence was the initial cause

bloody tandems!

😉

It is not so much the recording of the meeting – but how you do it and what you will do with that recording. It is unlikely to be admissible in court unless certain conditions have been met.

If you let people know and they agree to the recording and the purpose e.g. so you can transcribe later, then it should not be a problem to record the meeting.

I thought I would do a little update in case anyone is interested. WE had a telephone “case conference” with the HR and OH doc. this case conference was supposed to be two weeks after that last meeting but was 9 weeks.

I am now much better than I was but still slightly incapacitated.

I had great fun pointing out the delays ( I have been asking for a temporary relocation for 6 months but no longer need it) and also pointing out where they had not followed policy and where the reports created and the minutes of the last meeting were wrong. HR was totally silent and no one challenged where I said stuff was wrong. That means Imy version is now accepted as right and they have accepted they were wrong. Pointing out the inaccuracies in the previous minutes and the outright wrong statements in the report got a sharp intake of breath from HR but no challenge to my statements.

Decisions – when I am back at work after isolation I remain working under the light duties protocol. They will get the moving and handling folk to see me again on the ward and this time I will use that to point out all the tasks I have to do that are outside the moving and handling policy. No mention of redeployment. NO mention of going back to full time. I insisted on a full moving and handling audit on the ward and that I have imput into this ( usually done by the bosses who do not point out issues and hide them from the H&S folk. I will point out all the issues.

this will destroy my working relationship with my line manager ( who was not present but will see the minutes) but that was dodgy anyway. Thats a pity.

I think they now understand that I cannot be bullshitted nor pushed around. I am normally very co operative at work and do not cause issues and I am sure they underestimated me. Its great fun quoting policy at them. I doubt many workers actually read and memorise policy!

its opened a whole big can of worms over the working environment that they can no longer ignore. Gonna be a huge issue for the bosses

So all looking good for me.

That’ll be the NHS in a real crisis now.

OK, OK!!! I’ll use bloody Putoline, just promise you won’t get on my case like you did on their’s… 🙂

I say again, I would hate to be in an HR meeting with you TJ.
I’d also be asking you if now is the time to be pushing buttons of other NHS staff, but I guess that was something that you had in mind anyway.

🙂

Lunge – I had to protect myself. They were clearly attempting to set up pa situation where they could sack me.

they gave me two hours photocopying a day to do and left me sat on my own in an office with nothing to do the rest of the time

That sounds like my ideal job

And mine! I’ve got 140Gb of music and roughly 600 ebooks on my phone, sitting on my own in an office would be fine, just so long as I’ve got a comfy chair and access to tea making facilities!
Regarding a five mile commute, and six hours a week doing it, I’ve now got a fifteen mile commute, thirty miles a day, which is about one and a half hours total, so 155 miles a week, 7.5 hours approximately.
And I walk somewhere around five miles a day.
But I’ve actually got a job, which I enjoy, and getting somewhere around £22k/pa, rather than stacking shelves for bugger-all.
Personally, I’d rather be able to walk to work, but the job I had that let me do that for eleven years ended with what amounted to workplace bullying and panic attacks and worry about my mental health – I’ll put up with the commute.

Probably the final update

I am being moved to another ward that is 7 miles away. Ostensibly because it a better moving and handling environment ( bollox and rather late 🙂 ) and they are probably going to be opening mothballed wards where my skills will be useful ( some sense in that) Given the current situation it seemed churlish to make any more fuss although I could have and could have caused a lot more trouble.

I will be getting travel expenses and travel in paid time. Because I’m a good guy ( or to take the moral high ground) rather than taking a taxi every day and turning up late / leaving early I am going to ride my new ebike and take the travel time as time as TOIL so sving them significant money and making life easier for my new charge nurse

Somewhat mixed feelings about this but overall its positive bar having to leave my house at 6am not 6.45

Your travel is counted towards your work time? Do you realise how good you’ve got it?

tj I think you are very lucky to have the employer you do, anyone else would have got shot of you months ago for breaking rule number 1. Remember it’s your personal circumstances that sparked this in the first place and your expectations over commuting have been frankly laughable. Glad it’s now resolved for the time being. You might have been right throughout this but I don’t think you are correct.

stumpy – if they had they would have been facing an unfair dismissal claim with punative damages possible. I accepted after hearing folk on here that my view on commuting was wrong.

Policies and employment law are there for good reason. But yes – a decent outcome in the end. It is / was a situation with no real good outcomes

tjagain

I will be getting travel expenses and travel in paid time. Because I’m a good guy ( or to take the moral high ground) rather than taking a taxi every day and turning up late / leaving early I am going to ride my new ebike and take the travel time as time as TOIL so sving them significant money and making life easier for my new charge nurse

Wow! Gobsmacked. So you have a 7 mile commute each way. And get paid for your commute! And get travel expenses?! You are taking the travel time as time off in lieu?!
Amazing! It’s like you’re living in some kind of alternate reality, to be honest.
So, what is 14 miles by e-bike a day? Call it an hour? So for a 5 day week, you are going to get ~5 hours off as time in lieu!? I wish I could get that kind of deal!

You work for the NHS don’t you? Is this a common thing? Do all NHS staff get paid (or time in lieu) just for ‘going to work’?!

Typically it’s 15 mins per 10 mile or part of so 30 minutes a day.

Still 7 miles a day is far better than 5 you were so unhappy about. 😂

You work for the NHS don’t you? Is this a common thing? Do all NHS staff get paid (or time in lieu) just for ‘going to work’?!

No, only because of relocation due to a restructure, alternative employment or covering away from a base sight.

So, they’ve bent over backwards to relocate you, to a ward that has less negative effect on your health, and your getting TOIL and travelling expenses.

Do you use brasso on your neck, or does it shine naturally?