A fortnight ago I was knocked off my bike and most of the bike was bent. The driver’s insurer has offered a sum that does not cover the cost of a new for old replacement. My bike was 4 years old. A new bike of equivalent spec would be circa £1100. I had suggested a reasonable replacement at £850. They have offered £600. Do I dig my heels in and insist on like for like or do I accept their offer and get on with life?

It’s gotta be worth a try, over 50% value of a 4 year old bike is good though

The general rule is to never accept the first offer so I would ask for more (just because ‘why not’). Do you have any proof of its condition (ie, friendly LBS that serviced it for you)?

You should be put in the position you were before the accident. If you can’t replace the bike then you’re not in that position. Heels in. Their driver hit you.

Maybe not yet as its early days and things haven’t got nasty but if they really won’t play ball threaten to put I the hands of an accident management company.
A mate was getting the run around so he made a call to the insurers, he was going direct, and asked for a satisfactory figure. They refused so he mentioned management companies. He was put on hold and 10 minutes later they came back agreeing to his amount.
Can’t say its fool proof but as a last resort?

Don’t make idle threats – if you’re going to say stuff like that then you need to be prepared to engage an accident managaement company if they say “ok”. I wouldn’t.

The driver’s insurer has offered a sum that does not cover the cost of a new for old replacement.

You’re being offered a sum for a 4 year old bike, you know, like the one you were knocked off – why do you think you are entitled to a new for old? Thats a concept that only applies as a”policy benefit” in insurance you take out. The law simlpy obliges you to be put into the position you were prior to the accident. Prior to the accident, you had a 4 year old bike

My bike was 4 years old. A new bike of equivalent spec would be circa £1100.

This is not relevant – you were knocked off a 4 year old bike.

I had suggested a reasonable replacement at £850. They have offered £600. Do I dig my heels in and insist on like for like or do I accept their offer and get on with life?

You can insist on like for like but I don’t quite understand what you mean by it – it’s not practical to suggest an insurer “buys” you a 4 year old bike. You lost an asset of a certain value and you get the value of that asset back – otherwise people with “irreplacable items” would never get a penny. It’s offering you the money you should be able to buy a 4 year old bike for. If you think a four year old bike is £850 – find some examples and show them to the insurer. If however, you can replace it for £650, then do so and take their offer.

You give no indication why you disagree with their offer, other than irrelvant facts over the cost of a new bike. I would suggest, looking at the classifieds here, a 4 year old bike loses iro 30% of value in the first year alone if you allow a further 10% a year say, thats 60% – or say £440.

Slightly OT but what would happen if the 4 year old bike was a one-off custom build frame so that there was no possibility of getting another second hand and so the only way of getting an equivalent would be a new build? How would an insurance company deal with that issue?

It would consider the cost of the customer ordering a new bike and then makig an offer based of the anticipated value 4 years down the line. Dont forget that the owner would get the benefit of a 4 year newer bike than the one they lost. Besides, a custom bike might actually lose more in depreciation given its unique sizing arrangement, partly ofsetting its higher inital cost from which depreciation is then calculated.

And on another note – the op says “most of the bike was bent”. Have the isnurers disposed of the bits that weren’t bent or has he/she retained the benefits of those parts? And have they included things attached like lights/pumps bottle cages ect in the valuation?

You can insist on like for like but I don’t quite understand what you mean by it – it’s not practical to suggest an insurer “buys” you a 4 year old bike.

Correct – Why should the OP do that work for them ?

If they CBA sourcing an identical replacement, they’ll have to stump up for a new one. I guess it’s cheaper for them in the long run

And on another note – the op says “most of the bike was bent”. Have the isnurers disposed of the bits that weren’t bent or has he/she retained the benefits of those parts? And have they included things attached like lights/pumps bottle cages ect in the valuation?

Accessories survived the experience. Bike is still with me.

scaredypants – Member

You can insist on like for like but I don’t quite understand what you mean by it – it’s not practical to suggest an insurer “buys” you a 4 year old bike.
Correct – Why should the OP do that work for them ?

If they CBA sourcing an identical replacement, they’ll have to stump up for a new one. I guess it’s cheaper for them in the long run

Minsunderstanding here – they have no legal duty to source a replacement – their liability stops at a cash value of your loss. – Mind you, if you really want insurers to spend hours sourcing 4 year old bikes, can you imagine the cost of emplying staff to do that? It would double or triple premiums, when we already have the most expensive insurance in Europe (ourside of Ireland) due to the propoensity of people to claim for “whiplash” and demanding like for like hire cars!” Theres even a couple of firms who have tried to supply hire “bicycles” on a credit basis – ie ending up with invoices for £100’s of pounds, for often relatively low value bikes that could have been purchased for a fration of the cost of the short term hire.

You want AMC’s to inflate your claims – provide hire bikes, tutor you into claiming for injuries you didn’t have, providing unwanted credit treatments and expensive medical repoerts? well, someone down the line pays – and its not the insurers!

Still, keeps me in a job!

@mtb I suppose you’ve learnt the first lesson of negotiation, don’t ask for a reasonable sum as a counter as they will always offer less. I would write back and explain why £850 was reasonable as the bike was in great condition with numerous upgrades and a new one will be £1100 (at least 😉 )

Have you claimed for any injuries when you where run over ?

Good luck

Minsunderstanding here – they have no legal duty to source a replacement – their liability stops at a cash value of your loss

And they’re welcome to establish that value and provide market-based evidence if they wish

– Mind you, if you really want insurers to spend hours sourcing 4 year old bikes, can you imagine the cost of emplying staff to do that?

More than £250 ? I’ve an idea, …

It would double or triple premiums

what £1100 on bike damage ? I doubt it – they overpay hundreds/thousands on typical repair bills already, which is why

we already have the most expensive insurance in Europe (ourside of Ireland)

I agree, they possibly ought to legislate somehow against

the propensity of people to claim for “whiplash”

(at the very least stop anyone driving who’s mid-claim) but I don’t see why people shouldn’t be

demanding like for like hire cars!” … (or) hire “bicycles” on a credit basis – ie ending up with invoices for £100’s of pounds, for often relatively low value bikes that could have been purchased for a fration of the cost of the short term hire.

What “the industry” needs is a kick up the arse; rapid settlement would save all that hire bollocks, wouldn’t it ? … and if they started giving a toss about overpricing in the repair trades they’d be onto a big winner

Have you claimed for any injuries when you where run over ?

Only loss of earnings. Didn’t think the sort of knocks you can get from any notable off warranted a claim.

You would do best to scour classifieds looking for broadly comparable bikes (of similar age) to back up your argument. That’s what generally happens when haggling over cash settlements over written off cars and is the easiest way to get to where you should be.

HMRC consider that fair market value of a 4 year old bike (new price £500-£1000) is 7% of the purchase price…

Transferring ownership of a 4-year OP cycle scheme bike from employer to employee is not really comparable with a driver writing off your 4-year old bike.

Upgrades to bike?
Injury to you?
Damage to clothes and other things you were wearing such as a helmet?
Travelling costs incurred by not having bike?
Time lost by not having bike?
Etc.

Nevermind £1100 for buying a similar spec bike, the above could easily exceed £1500, especially from injuries.

^ +1 to that.

Make sure you include every incidental cost you’ve incurred (eg driving around trying to get things sorted) plus a sum for the inconvenience and any pain and suffering. You’re entitled to more than just the monetary value of the immeciately damaged property.

It’s a third party claim, not on his own insurance, so they pay for what you lost ie a four year old bike, not a new one.

Obviously, you should negotiate to what you think that is, but as above, all your other costs and inconveniences can be claimed for as well.

A 4 year old bike that you have had – and cared for/maintained – from new is likely to be considered by you of greater value/’worth’ than any old 4 year old second hand bike that you could buy, and to some extent the same issue applies to cars written off in accidents which are the subject of an insurance claim.

A few thoughts/suggestions:

1. The depreciation percentages used by by many insurers for valuing bikes that are over a year old are a starting point. For a 4 year old BSO that has never seen a drop of oil and is in poor condition, a 40%-50% reduction on the cost of a brand new bike is likely to be more than fair.

However, there is no reason why a modern bike costing £1100 new would not have a lifespan of 15-20 years or more if properly maintained, so although a 40% reduction might reflect the second hand value after 4 years, that is only relevant if someone was actually intending to sell the bike (at that sort of discount) before the accident. Arguably, if the projected lifespan is 15 years, then 4/15ths would be a fair reduction. Bear in mind that these depreciation charts often date from when most bikes came with steel chainsets and rims, so many of them would be 50% rust after 4 years.

2. As others have already said, include all your other losses, e.g. any damage to clothing and the hassle/costs of loss of use of your bike.

3. Although you dealing with the insurer as a third party, do you know if that insurer also sells household insurance? If so, it is likely to have an arrangement with Wheelies (www.wheelies.co.uk) or a similar outfit to provide replacement new bikes (at a large discount to the insurer) for claimants under its household insurance policies. I would be tempted to ask that they make that scheme available to you, since it might significantly offset the reduction if they could do this.

Go with the goat, they hit you, you suffered loss and injury

There is no need to make anything up, just be very diligent listing everything

If they wrote off your 4 year old car, you’d be doing well to get enough for a similar 4 year old car, but more likely something a bit older, bit more rubbish plus your time to source it. You can argue it up a little, but after that you’ll just be wasting your own time.

Adverts for similar is best way to get them to push up the value.

their liability stops at a cash value of your loss

Including a reasonable hourly rate for his time while he fannies about doing their job for them?

Insurance should put you back in the position you were in before the accident. Unless they happen to have a time machine for you to borrow, your loss of time and the value of that should probably make its way into these negotiations. Oh, and use official AA/RAC “real cost of motoring” figures for any driving about you have to do as these include wear and tear and maintenance costs. They’ll soon learn the cost of a new bike was cheaper than trying to fob you off and wasting both their and your time.

Insurance companies seem to have a habit of thinking their duties end the moment their clients have paid a premium.

All this talk of second hand bike values proves one thing. There is no formula, there is no gap or glasses guide for bicycle prices.

If I write off a 4 year old focus with a particular trim level and mileage, a quick Google will give everyone an idea of its worth. No such thing exists for bikes. The chances of finding something reasonably close second hand are much smaller than for a car.

Dig in my friend, dig in.

What Onzadog said. Bikes aren’t comodities, there arent enough of them in similar enough conditions to make a like for like replacemnt a viable proposition.

What if the driver drove into your house and knocked it down, would you expect a payout based on its value when you bought it minus some fixed depreciation? Or part of the builders bill for rebuilding it based on some percieved amenity of getting a ‘new’ front wall? Sod off, youd expect them to build it again and put you up in a hotel while they do it.

My road bike (statisitically the one I’ll be knocked off) is now 12 years old, but its been upgraded from sora to dura ace, carbon bits, 1200g wheels. Heck the wheels cost more than the whole bike cost originally. If I was offered a penny less than it would cost to rebuild I’d be fuming.

Cars mostly arent like that, you write off a focus zetec in blue with 50k on the clocks, you can find an identical one on autotrader tomorrow.

I had this a nearly 2 years ago ago when a lady jumped the lights and hit me. The insurance initially asked me to let them know how much the current version of my bike cost and they were going to pay me that much. It was all old but top end parts on a cove stiffee frame so they had the bike collected and sent to wheelies for inspection. The assessed the damage and gave the insurance company a price to supply all new equivalent parts. The insurance company then asked me if I wanted wheelies to fit all the new parts or if I wanted the cash to repair it myself. I took the cash and bought a nomad frame instead.
Worst part was a few weeks ago when I got a phone call from my current car insurance about a non disclosed claim. Turns out that if your name is associated with any car insurance claim then your premium may go up.

Don’t make idle threats

It doesn’t need to be. Speak to an AMC and say what the situation is and that you want to be net £800 at the end of it. If they think they can help you go back to the insurer with that in your pocket and negotiate form there.

Don’t listen to Jujuuk; you have been knocked off, inconvenienced and you need to be at least back to where you where before the accident.

If taht involves claiming for injuries, time off work, damage to your clothing, so be it.

Insurance is a business. If they want to insure rubbish drivers, they may be made to pay for it. It’s called risk, so boo and indeed hoo.