Im in the potentially lucky position of being head hunted for a new job. Bascially its some people i dealt with in my current job have got in touch with me to potentially offer me a job with them doing similar work.
I've been in telecoms and my current job for over 8 years, so i've got a good knowledge of the industry and products, presumeably why they want me.
The new job is 10 mins walk from home, so will save me approx 2 hrs a day in travel and approx £220 per month in ferry fares.
The job would entail doing a bit of everything to start with (no problem done it all before) and potentially lead to me being in change of my own team if business grows, so it would be a step up for me in terms of career progression.
BUT It could be a drop in my wages of perhaps £2k initially, which I could well do without currently, in fact if the truth be told it could be drop too far.
Im really keen to take the job, but the money situation worries me, as there are little (if any) savings that i can make on the household finances. My partner is currently unable to work as her back has major issues and I think our 3 YO would benefit far more from mum being with him daily, than bunging him in nursery all day.

You thoughts would be gratefully received…..

You're saving £220 per month in travel so its a neutral pay situation, plus you gain 2 hrs a day for family / riding.

If they want you maybe you can negotiate a bit more money?

Ensure a pay review is included if your role expands or has some kind of performance reward. Explain why the money is important.

Is it a company you want to work for?

If they have approached you and you are interested explain that you want to consider it but can't afford the paycut. If they want you I would imagine they will soon find another 2K

Stay put,at least if youre made redundant,youll get some cash,but non for 2 years with the new firm.

Not sure why you would need to make savings – you are up financially with the new job by about a grand a year

£2k drop is only a £1600 drop (at normal rate of tax) compared with £2640 travel savings which comes out of your net wage

TBH There is a risk, but these guys have been in the business for quite a while, so they do know their onions, but yes redundancy is not something i need!
Im also pretty jaded with my current job and my boss is a hyprocritical bitch. We are expected to suck up everyone else's mistakes and screw ups without any recourse or respect. We've become a dumping ground for problems and its mostly because of her attitude and behaviour that everyone treats us like crap. I have other issues with her from the past, that i've put behind me, but not forgotten. We ask her for support and get nothing.

Im also pretty jaded with my current job and my boss is a hyprocritical bitch. We are expected to suck up everyone else's mistakes and screw ups without any recourse or respect. We've become a dumping ground for problems and its mostly because of her attitude and behaviour that everyone treats us like crap. I have other issues with her from the past, that i've put behind me, but not forgotten. We ask her for support and get nothing.

Seems as if your existing company may well be experiencing difficulties,and tyour bitch,boss knows.

The company as it stands is doing ok currently and is profitable. BUT I think they've lost some of what made it a good company in the past, specifically customer service has gone downhill and nobody seems to remember that we are providing a service for customers and would rather bikker about who does what internally.

If i can get a salary that im happy with then i'll probably take the job. Nothing ventured, nothing gained after all. Im potentially in the position that i can help mould and improve service levels for a new company.

Do it. See if there is a bit more dosh, but if not, take it anyway.

Also think about long term prospects – someone told me a change every 5 -10 years is no bad thing. If you're not happy now you should take the opportunity – don't look a gift horse in the mouth if you can sort the salary.

Otherwise try to use this opportunity to leverage a better position in your own company. If nothing comes of it sounds like the current place could be a dead end.

The current job IS a dead end, no debate.

If they are head hunting you then they really need to find that extra £2k.
But as has been said, if you are saving £220 in travel per month that equates to mid £3k on the top line so not sure why you are worried about the "drop" in salary. If you are honestly spending £220 per month on travel I don't think you really have a problem. My last job was costing me £100 per week so that equated to about £7000 on my topline. Just having trouble getting potential new employers to accept that a salary of £7000/8000 reduction for a local job wouldn't mean I'd be looking to move again after 3 months for better pay.

And as for redundancy if you have worked for your current company for 8 years you're looking at 8 weeks statutory redundancy. So unless your company has a VERY generous private redundancy package you really aren't looking at a big payout. Though I know if money is tight every penny counts. £64.30 a week Jobseekers goes nowhere.

If I was you I'd jump. Your current company doesn't sound like the sort of place where you would be happy if you managed to persuade them that a pay rise would prevent you moving on. Obviously my opinion and it's your decision but give it a serious think and ask for that £2k. Be cautious of performance reviews and resultant increases. Will they live up to it. A friend of mine started a new job 18 months ago. He was desperate to move as well but took a slight pay cut on the understanding that if he worked out he'd get made a director after 12 months. During the 12 months he Project/Engineering managed a multi-million pound project and saved 35% on the projected contract engineering costs (by doing a lot of the work himself rather than bringing in external consultants that had been costed for). 12 months later he got a nice bonus but didn't get the Directorship. In fact they bought in a new guy as a marketing manager and made him a director straight off.

So don't accept that they will offer you a £2/5K rise in 6 or 12 months after a performance review. Unless the performance can be quantified from the start (you know, if you sell 2 bikes a week for a year you'll get the rise) a subjective review can always be made to fit the desires of the employer if they wish to not give you the rise.

You're better off than Stu-d's calcs as he didn't inc NI contributions in the 'net figure' (assuming you're not in the lowest tax band).

Tell them you're interested and willing but you can't take a pay cut in your Gross – regardless of your actual finances.

As said, if they're that interested they'll find the 2k. It's an opening offer afteral.

Good luck. If the new company is secure then the risk is minimal but the return good be good – initially nearly 4k if they match your current salary.

I've been in telecoms and my current job for over 8 years

TBH There is a risk, but these guys have been in the business for quite a while, so they do know their onions

Are you sure you want to make a jump from telecoms to speciality salad vegetables?

The saving in traveling time equals 480 hours a year extra at home thats 20 days !!

Do it

Bigyin–never mind the same money, if they've headhunted you the minimum they expect to pay you is the same plus 10%. Respect yourself and if they want you they have to pay. Quality counts in the end and every decent employer knows that….good luck man. AB

Bear in mind there are other ways they can recompense rather than money – flexible hours, extra holiday

You say Telecoms, is that general telephony or comms as in networking? Are your particular skills in demand? Good to know if it all goes pete tong if you will be able to jump elsewhere. I took the leap into contracting recently from a permanent job Id been in for 10 years. Contact centre telephony….. lovin the new job, but the 3 month contract thing is a little stressful, and my partner has just fell pregnant and we were going to have to move house, but now cant get a mortgage due to being newly self employed! I would say go for it, as it will be a small gamble with potentially big rewards!

As above. 2k isn't too much for them to find. Why not ask to have it as a bonus assuming you've met targets etc – that way if the jobs not quite going well they'll not have to pay, but if it's a dream job then all good.

And, if you've been in the same company for 8 years and are not in senior management, it's probably time to look around as you'll be part of the fixtures and fittings by now with no career progression.

10 minute walk Vs. ferry and hour commute – no brainer.

Let us know how you get on in your new job…

Thanks for all your thoughts and opinions.
Following the traditional "sleep on it" im inclined to agree with the view that they came to me and they clearly want me, so they really need to match what im currently being paid, give or take a small amount. I said i'll get in touch towards the end of the week and let them know my thoughts. Its just glorified haggling isn't it!

It's exactly that. I've been in a situation where the policy is no pay (in various downturns) and have negotiated training budgets etc.
Currently have the luxury of an early finish and working from home on a regular basis, all courtesy of negotiating my salary.
Never have I had a manager tell me that I'm being out of order. Including when I've been applying for roles too, always ask for a little more… or if I'm really keen I've accepted and negotiated for a 3 month review – they'll always accept that, trick is to put some measures in place so ensure that it's not just a nice chat by then…
Just remember that it is negotiation and not a demand, that generally backfires (early career moments for me).

Bit of a progress update.
Was going to call them today to say basically i cant accept a job if the money doesnt at least match my current rates.
He actually called me this morning to say he's like me to come up and see him and his co-directors and they want to propose an offer. Apparently things are moving forwards quicker than they anticipated and they need someone to start fairly quickly.
Looks like my holding back getting in touch with them may have helped. So going to meet them tonight.
I'll report back later, hopefully with some good news. God knows i could use some this week. (Possible car sale fell through, gaaah!)

ask them for more than what you need, that way you have room to negotiate.

I got another 4k on top of what I was initially offered when I moved jobs 18months ago. just got to be bold enough to ask. if they really want you then a couple of grand is nothing.

Best of luck bigyinn, job satisfaction is really important. I hope you're happy whichever way it works out!

Let them make the offer, they want you – then pretend you are the Iranian Comic from the money adverts.

But seriously, they've come for you – let them offer, and see the whole deal – and sleep on it – or if good, just take it.

Good luck. I had a very productive day today on the job front so there's something positive in the air.

Meeting went very well, job sounds right up my street.
The job is mine if i want it, their words!
BUT (why is there ALWAYS a but?)
They want to pay me as a self employed consultant for 3 months and then give me a full time contract after that. The money they are offering is slightly better than my current take home.
This troubles me slightly as they have no committment to keep me employed unless i can get something in writing from them. If i can get a committment from them i'll be happy. They are starting a new director in the beginning of March and have been trading for approx 7 years, the signs are they are going to have an increase in business once this new director gets onboard (lots of contacts within the industry) , meaning plenty of work for me. My gut instinct is this is a risk for me requiring a leap of faith, but the rewards for me could be big.
Or i could just stay where i am, mentally rotting.

What d'ya reckon?

Permanent contract from the start. Its no more risk for them as you don't have any employment rights really for a year. However it shows their commitment. You could even have a 3 month probation.

Thanks TJ, good idea! If i can get a commitment from them then im there!

TJ is bang on.

They want to pay me as a self employed consultant for 3 months

I was taken on in my present job on a 3 month trial period. At the end of 3 months I would have an appraisal and if they didn't think I was right then they would let me go. I'm not quite sure when they plan to do the appraisal but I started in March 1996 so I'm thinking it may have slipped there minds.

I wouldnt move without a full contract. They could easily turn around after 3 months, end your contract and you would be stuffed.

If they only want to commit for 3 months, it sounds like they know something that you dont. Big contract etc.

You either need a permanent contract, or ask them to come back to you in 3 months when things are more settled for them.

Why ask life changing advice on an open forum, ask you friends and family buddy they know you best.
Simple maths tells you that the paycut is not a paycut in real terms for you due to your saving in travel costs. Also you save 2 hours a day which is worth a lot more than a few £100 a year.

Plus the potential is greater in a smaller company that could grow. Yes it go under but so can big ones, at least when a small comapny goes under your only fighting ofr a job against a few people, if a big company goesd under your fighting against 1000's of others.

Nice to see the bike forum being about bikes for once 😈

They want to pay me as a self employed consultant for 3 months and then give me a full time contract after that.

Being self employed is a different ball game than being an employee. Sure you can make the numbers work for you, but there are things you will need to pay for which you don't as an employee. Liability Insurance, NI, Tax etc. all need more attention when you are your own boss.

If you consider the 3 months as a sole trader (and it does work, most of my last 8 years employment has been as a sole trader working as a contractor) then you need a much better rate than comparable to the annual salary that they are offering for an employee. For example when I moved to the water industry I did about 18 months as an employee at £24k/year so obviously £2k/month. Due to changes in the company I ended up working nearly 6 years then as a self employed contractor with the same company. I was paid £200/8 hour day. If you calculate that out based on a 46 week working year then my "salary" was £46K. So almost double an employee salary.

So if I were you and you fancy the jump I would say:-

1. You want at least the equivalent of 175% of the employee salary they are offering, for the 3 months as an independent contractor.

2. You want something in writing that they will take you on as an employee for certain after 3 months.

TBH I can't see them agreeing to 2. If they would wear that condition then why not take you on straight away?

My concern for you is that this new Director is being bought in on the strength that he brings a certain value of work with him. If he does then they will need you, if he doesn't they won't. I think they expect that in 3 months new contracts/orders will start flowing in from Mr New Director.

A lot of people say that one has no rights as a new employee for 12 months. If that was totally true why would companies be worried about setting people on that they can fire at the drop of the hat? I bet it isn't as easy to finish someone who is an employee as it is too finish one on contract.

I'd really like you to do well, cos that's the sort of person I am. However I would advise you to meet with them again and get some more information and commitment if you can. Of course they can always throw the "we're looking for someone who will take a risk to get ahead in their career" at you. At that point it really is down to how you feel about it. You will have met them so will have some feeling. Talk with your family and close friends at that point.

If they are in the same industry as your current employer do you have any contacts outside your company that might have dealt with the new people? Try to ask around to see if the potential for growth really exists or if they are hoping/dreaming that it is coming.

Best of luck fella.

It sounds to me like you are wearing all the risk in this little transaction. You are being asked to move from a permanent salaried role for 12 weeks of paid work, with the extra spice of being self-employed whereupon on a whim they may or may not make that permanent. While they are buttering you up and stroking your ego they are also attempting to have their cake and eat it. Quite honestly are you prepared to take the risk that you get 12 weeks of average pay , accept all the risk and end up unemployed ? I personally would prefer to see the risk split 50/50 in some way either by then signing a minimum 12 month contract with a negotiated exit clause or take you on as a permanent employee on the same or higher salary. Otherwise while they may be lovely nice people they can still shove one right up your arrrrse and you'll wear the consequences and trust me in business people more often than you would think forget their moral and personal obligations. However if you think its an amazing opportunity then go for it with eyes open. and 3 months for a new director to convert work is dreaming.

I headhunt people every day.

This is a bad deal. The only incentive for you is this job is local.

NZcol is bang on the money.

J

Thanks peeps, some food for thought there. I don't want to get screwed and end up with my family destitute. I think the way forward would be to get a permanent contract with them for say a year minimum and im happy to be SE for a short period with salary'd position after the initial trial at a higher agreed rate. How does that sound? Without a contract and commitment from them I could be high and dry.

Update.
GOT IT!!!
They have given me the assurances i was looking for, to be confirmed in writing, so i've accepted.
Ok so its not the deal to end all my financial worries, but it has potential and should provide me with a better career path than im currently on.