Viewing 40 posts - 121 through 160 (of 1,822 total)
  • Possible demise of CRC / Wiggle
  • muddy@rseguy
    Full Member

    Been following this thread for a few days as well as hearing some things from mates in the bike trade. Key thing at the moment (just checked) is that both CRC/Wiggle are still trading so would still be solvent(no big warning messages sent out anywhere yet as far as I can see) , all of the issues at the moment seem to be at the very top level/parent company Signa Sports United.

    Looking at the CW article on this, the issue at present appears to be  that SSU has (had) a holding company above it  that was providing financing/liquidity and this agreement was terminated. Could mean quite a few things but the most likely thing right now is that SSU has to seek urgent refinancing, restructuring and/or start selling off or closing parts of its business.  IIRC SSU is also a German company so likely a lot of legal stuff going on there too (just note that German corporate business/bankruptcy/closure laws take effect and these are potentially a bit different to the UK law).

    My own random guess here (and I really dont know anything except for previously working in two companies that went into bankruptcy/receivership…not fun) would be that CRC/Wiggle, being an established very large commercial operation that has shown it can run e-commerce pretty effectively and profitably (recent issues excepted), creating cashflow and shareholder value (thats the key here)   may get spun off/sold on as a going concern/undergo some form of MBO/restructured or something else before anyone would consider moving to a full close down.

    b33k34
    Full Member

    I do find it amazing that they managed to spend so long, and supposedly so much money, on updating their website but you still can’t get it to reliably show you only items that are in stock (tyres, in stock only, 29 and it will show you models where only the 27.5 variant is in stock)

    dirtyrider
    Free Member

    or simple as search by length for chain sets,

    and the pricing is all over, last month SRAM Force Chainsets in a 172.5mm 46/33 were £80 quid, they are now £300

    TheGingerOne
    Full Member

    Because it wasn’t just their website that they were updating!

    ross980
    Free Member

    The Vitus gravel bike I got from Wiggle was great VFM, it would be a shame if they went under.

    Last month I almost pulled the trigger on a Vitus eMTB that was down to £2300 from £3300, all OOS now.   Can’t decide whether I missed out or dodged a bullet. 

    alpin
    Free Member

    Surely brexit has had a hand to play in CRC’s demise.

    Talking to a mate the other day. He ordered a new bar from CRC for 70€. Got stung by Italian customs for 180€.

    Now he uses the German sites. I’m sure lots of other folks in Europe do the same now.

    I used to use CRC a fair bit, but not once since brexit.

    HarryTuttle
    Full Member

    Was about to rant about their website being useless after looking for a light last week and not even being able to filter the hundreds of option down to rear lights.  However, today, the first filter option is ‘front’, ‘Rear’, ‘sets’, etc.  So it does appear there’s recent work going on in the background of the site.

    honourablegeorge
    Full Member

    alpin

    Surely brexit has had a hand to play in CRC’s demise.

    Talking to a mate the other day. He ordered a new bar from CRC for 70€. Got stung by Italian customs for 180€.

    Now he uses the German sites. I’m sure lots of other folks in Europe do the same now.

    I certainly do, CRC aren’t competitive on price, and they used to be quick delivery to me, now they are much slower. and they don’t stock much other than their own brand stuff nowadays. Flick through theie “brands” section and see how many of them are empty.

    Not sure I’d blame them for Italian customs, though – they should be doing the same for Italy as any other eu country, and works fine here. Italy do like a sneaky extra tax. I remember an uplift operator telling me he couldn’t have a logo on his van as it meant paying an extra tax

    molgrips
    Free Member

    My own random guess here … would be that CRC/Wiggle, being an established very large commercial operation that has shown it can run e-commerce pretty effectively and profitably … may get spun off/sold on as a going concern

    This is what would seem obvious to me as well. They’d be insane to wrap it up, they’re a household name and that is important.

    dangeourbrain
    Free Member

    Surely brexit has had a hand to play in CRC’s demise.

    Talking to a mate the other day. He ordered a new bar from CRC for 70€. Got stung by Italian customs for 180€.

    Now he uses the German sites. I’m sure lots of other folks in Europe do the same now.

    I used to use CRC a fair bit, but not once since brexit.

    The opposite is also true, buying from on the continent directly became a bit of a pita for folks in the UK, which would be the primary market for both crc and wiggle, especially for bigger ticket stuff. (and some sellers simply not selling into the UK at the lower end eg bike-components. de, or at all anymore eg rose.)

    I know it’s not the done thing here to say this but Brexit isn’t the cause of all problems any more than the EU was the solution to all of them.

    It’s nuanced.

    susepic
    Full Member

    CRC/Wiggle, being an established very large commercial operation that has shown it can run e-commerce pretty effectively and profitably … may get spun off/sold on as a going concern

    This going concern…….Wiggle Chain Reaction Cycles records £97 million loss

    Not sure that anyone will want to sort that out
    And how many of us have stopped buying from Chiggle cos they’ve lost their edge
    I know I’m using Merlin, SigMa, Tredz now, and hardly go near them

    Kramer
    Free Member

    VCs made a bet that subsidising market share for cycling supplies would force out their competitors and lead them to profit.

    It hasn’t, and it’s a commodity business. They’ve got some small brands, but very little that can’t be easily replicated.

    Being a household name is worth very little in a market where you’re competing on price.

    I can’t really see where the value is.

    They’re also a large part of the reason that so many LBSs have gone out of business or been bought by chains.

    alpin
    Free Member

    The opposite is also true, buying from on the continent directly became a bit of a pita for folks in the UK

    Yup, for sure…. But a market of 60odd million in the UK vs 300m in Europe who previously weren’t having to pay extra taxes on the items they bought from CRC.

    I used to use CRC loads whilst in Germany, as did all my riding clique. Now no one uses CRC.

    doomanic
    Full Member

    And how many of us have stopped buying from Chiggle cos they’ve lost their edge

    I buy from whoever has what I want for the best price. I don’t care what the URL is.

    chakaping
    Free Member

    I still use them loads, especially with the crazy deals over the last few months – but still find them generally competitive.

    dangeourbrain
    Free Member

    60m vs 300m in Europe who previously weren’t having to pay extra taxes on the items they bought from CRC.

    All guess work but I’d be rather surprised to see CRC doing more trade into Europe than into the UK especially given the likes of all tricks, mantel, bike discount, bike24, rcz and so on were often less expensive than crc.

    Add to that that when Signa bought crc, bikester and fharrad gave “them” an EU presence in group too.

    i_like_food
    Full Member

    I’m not feeling so smug about my bargain eMTB with the Bafang motor  now. Warranty issues were always going to be a PITA, but at least there was a warranty. If they go pop I’m guessing there will be zero Bafang back up in the UK. 

    johnnystorm
    Full Member

    New bafang motors and batteries are ~500 quid each? You’d have had to spend another grand to get anything nearly as good so it’s not as bad as it could be if the worst happens. Maybe.

    oldschool
    Full Member

    If they could just hang in there until my return gets there this week and they add the vouchers I used back to my account and I reorder a larger size helmet and it’s dispatched.
    I do hope they get through this period and prosper, but really hope they can manage maybe another week as a minimum 🫣

    hofnar
    Free Member

    Surely brexit has had a hand to play in CRC’s demise.

    Talking to a mate the other day. He ordered a new bar from CRC for 70€. Got stung by Italian customs for 180€.

    Now he uses the German sites. I’m sure lots of other folks in Europe do the same now.

    I used to use CRC a fair bit, but not once since brexit.

    It sure is French resident(not French not Brittish). Delivery delay’s are up a lot(so can only be used for stuff needed in almost two weeks now. and pricing is a lot less good. Note uk prices are not same as charged to continent and spread seem to have increased quite a bit. Looked at several of the recent PSA unavailable to me(when I change origin the deal is still live for UK) I used to be mainly CRC planet X and Merlin for my cycling stuff now I shop french and Germany mainly

    Rich_s
    Full Member

    Don’t forget Merlin has German owners now. A shrewd move by them into the UK marketplace. Covering lots of bases no doubt.

    German cycling giant purchases mail order specialist Merlin Cycles

    zerocool
    Full Member

    Today I learnt what Chiggle is (after ages of assuming it was something to do with Chinese knockoffs). 🤦🏼‍♂️

    bigrich
    Full Member

    new CRC website is utter bobbins 

    chakaping
    Free Member

    Merlin has German owners now

    That went under ze radar.

    ac505
    Free Member

    We own both a Nukeproof and  a Vitus bike so a little worried if things go belly up, warranty and availability of spares will be affected, already had to warranty the frame on a 3 month old Mega. I’m not so worried about secondhand value of bikes as they’ll be kept for some time.

    The vitus is new and covered by the 30 day return policy, so seriously considering returning it and buying something else..

    5lab
    Full Member

    nukeproof aren’t a CRC own brand, you can buy them loads of places so should be fine.

    Vitus is a little different

    ac505
    Free Member

    Are you sure, I was under the impression that nukeproof is owned by sigma also?  

    dangeourbrain
    Free Member

    nukeproof aren’t a CRC own brand, you can buy them loads of places so should be fine.

    Vitus is a little different

    Nukeproof is owned by hotlines isn’t it (as I believe is vitus?) I did a bit of cursory goggling on this the other day and whilst the registered address for hotlines and crc is the same I couldn’t see anything to say one was owned by the other (or more to the point that Signa bought hotlines not just the retail side)

    Edit:

    The Nukeproof website is owned and operated by WiggleCRC Ltd.

    WiggleCRC Ltd is registered in the United Kingdom at

    1000 Lakeside, Suite 310, Third Floor N E Wing, Portsmouth, Hampshire, PO6 3EN / Company No: 02667809 / VAT No: GB884 2571 94

    You can contact us by writing to the business address given above or by email to info@nukeproof.com.

    Would suggest nukeproof is owned by chiggle

    spokebob
    Free Member

    for what it’s worth, my Vitus Escarpe is very, very good.

    The best Dh bike i’ve ever owned, also reasonably happy being stomped up hills.

    (ease off a bit, sit and spin, and it’s a very good climber)

    wwaswas
    Full Member

    Twitter/X rumours of a major UK bike brand filing for insolvency this morning. With the £150million credit withdrawal earlier this week I’d not be surprised if it was Wiggle/CRC.

    chakaping
    Free Member

    Yes Nukeproof is owned by Hotlines, who were owned by CRC, who were bought by Wiggle, who we now call Chiggle, but they’re owned by Signa, who are being de-funded by another Signa.

    Keep up. It’s quite simple.

    dangeourbrain
    Free Member

    They look to still be taking orders as I type which would suggest not.

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    nukeproof aren’t a CRC own brand, you can buy them loads of places so should be fine.

    All part of the same CRC/Wiggle/Hotlines/Lifline/Prime/Nukeproof/Vitus empire (probably more I’ve forgotten too).

    Hotlines as a distributor sells stuff to LBS’s from a mix of their one in-house brands and stuff they import from others .

    hannahjayy
    Free Member

    Wouldn’t order from them right now that’s for sure, lots of chat about announcements today/tomorrow…

    BruceWee
    Full Member

    Twitter/X rumours of a major UK bike brand filing for insolvency this morning.

    For those of us who don’t Twit/X, who is saying this?

    Random people who heard a rumour or people who might have first or at least secondhand knowledge?

    dangeourbrain
    Free Member

    For those of us who don’t Twit/X, who is saying this?
    Random people who heard a rumour or people who might have first or at least secondhand knowledge?

    Probably musk, right before he offers to buy it

    benpinnick
    Full Member

    Twitter/X rumours of a major UK bike brand filing for insolvency this morning. With the £150million credit withdrawal earlier this week I’d not be surprised if it was Wiggle/CRC.

    Wouldn’t need to be able to see the future to have worked it out – they literally said this would likely happen in the PR.

    After many years of mutually trusted collaboration and reliable financing between the Company and SIGNA Holding,

    SSU has relied on the binding and unconditional nature of the Equity Commitment Letter to continue to draw funds to meet its near-term obligations and for its going concern assessment of the Company and its subsidiaries.

    stanley
    Full Member

    I’ve got a few Wiggle orders that I wanted to return: total value over the 4 orders is about £800.

    Should I risk sending them back? I’d hate for them to go belly-up after I’ve posted the items and before I get my money back!

    reluctantjumper
    Full Member

    I’d hold onto them for the time being, you can always sell them on and get more money back than you would as a nobody in the queue to the administrators.

    hannahjayy
    Free Member

    Definitely don’t send anything this week, i’m in the trade and we certainly aren’t sending anything at the moment.

    Very strong rumors that there will be something announced today/tomorrow.

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