Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)
  • Police and reporting punishment passes
  • Premier Icon ajaj
    Subscriber

    I had a run in with a BMW driver this morning. On the approach to a two lane roundabout, left lane is left turning, right lane is straight on. There is no right turn. On the bike I occupy the centre of the right hand lane.

    BMW goes past on my right hand side at speed. Barely any distance between us. Scares the living daylights out of me. BMW then turns left from the right hand lane (at the speed it was going needed both lanes to make the corner).

    Roundabout is covered by the town centre CCTV, so I report it to the police using their web form.

    Police have just phoned me back to say that they’re not recording a crime.

    In this era of cuts I don’t actually expect an investigation, but I would like something recorded so that the official statistics are accurate. The police response has upset me more than the initial incident did.

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Subscriber

    I fear that in the age of cuts and conflicting priorities, this is the likely result unless there is specific helmet cam footage that they don’t have to trawl through CCTV to find the incident.

    I’m asking this now because others will – if you were in the centre of the right hand lane, and the Beemer went past you on the right, then there must be a wide verge or something, or had he crossed into the oncoming lane to get past you?

    I had a similar incident when I thought I was in primary at a roundabout, but when I actually stopped and thought about it, my primary was not actually controlling the lane like it’s supposed to do.

    Premier Icon ajaj
    Subscriber

    Immediately before the roundabout there is a pedestrian refuge separated from the right hand lane by hashed markings. That creates about 2ft of space between the pedestrian refugee kerb and the right hand edge of the lane. Clearly that’s just enough space to squeeze a car through, but it was very tight.

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Subscriber

    Sounds very similar to where I got caught out then

    Premier Icon DezB
    Subscriber

    Police response due to a) resources are too tight or b) they don’t give a shit

    STW responses are a) because riding heroes in their own minds b) because never ride on the road

    Cue the riding heroes to tell you what you were doing wrong…

    Premier Icon Bez
    Subscriber

    I had something similar in East London last year: thought I’d covered off the lane by being in the middle of it (single lane, traffic island at the junction) but some colossal thundertwunt proved me wrong by somehow managing to fit his car between me and the island to my right at considerable speed. It was doubly impressive because I was stopped at a red light at the time. Didn’t even occur to me that plod might give a hoot about it. Haven’t ridden in London since.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Subscriber

    Its very much a postcode lottery on this. I have reported two to the police in Edinburgh. Both times they checked CCTV within 24 hours and let me know the outcome. In neither case did the CCTV show the number plates so nothing that could be done

    I would be getting back to the police insisting they check the CCTV

    Premier Icon ajaj
    Subscriber

    Like I say it’s the police response that’s upset me. It was initially recorded as a public order offence (public place, caused fear, driver should have known better). Not by me, I might add, but by whoever processes the web form. The investigating officer who called back was only interested in downgrading it to careless driving.

    The reason; the first has a victim and targets, the second can be binned with no consequences. It’s the willful neglect that’s upsetting.

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Subscriber

    Any copper would want people like this to be at least warned. It’s not wilful neglect, though it may feel like it, it’s desperate under funding and under resourcing forcing unfortunate prioritisation.

    Democratically elected Police and Crime Commissioners gives us some potential weight to reprioritise, if we got our acts together

    endomick
    Member

    Quite a lot of CCTV isn’t turned on, I know a scrote who crashed into three parked cars right under a post with 4 cameras covering a junction, they didnt catch him before or after the crash or running from the scene in yet another direction, he should have been on at least three.

    It’s a factor of budget cuts.
    OH was working CID a few weekends ago. 4 covering from the border to past Edinburgh and just as wide. There were 13 rapes reported each need investigated. The number of assaults and serious assaults was pretty high too but our town had 4 uniformed officers to investigate and do general policing. If you want to get really nervous about our police force try to find out how few actually cover your area.

    Premier Icon lowey
    Subscriber

    Policing has been utterly slashed to the bone. As above the number of officers covering my area is literally unbelievable.

    I;ve reported 2 incidents in GMP, both with helmet cam footage and haven’t had a single response to either. I gave up reporting.

    kerley
    Member

    I am not sure policing was ever able to deal with everything reported even before the cuts.
    Spending time and money investigating drivers who drove a bit too close to another road user is never going to be a high priority unless they had so many staff they were all sitting around desperately finding something to do.

    Sadly as a road cyclist I just have to accept the fact that there are a lot of dangerous drivers and just get on with it (or spend more of my riding on gravel roads which is what I do)

    poly
    Member

    I’d write back to them suggesting a more senior officer reviews the case, because IMHO its not really their place to “not record it as a crime” unless the circumstances you described do not amount to a criminal offence. Taking no further action because there is nothing to go on, or because they have very low prospect of conviction is very different from not recording the offence – the latter is manipulating the statistics. Of course it may be that having reviewed your statement and any CCTV that they have concluded it wasn’t even a s3 RTA offence.

    I do think though that we run the risk of burying the really serious cases under a swamp of fairly trivial stuff, if we regard every close pass as a punishment pass. To ME a punishment pass really requires a conscious, malicious intent. I’d expect it to arise from some previous incident, like a gesticulation, a shout, prolonged wait to overtake etc – something that means they wanted to punish you – not just they are such bad drivers that they caused you fear. I’ve experienced the latter on numerous occasions, I’ve never personally experienced a punishment pass, but have been a passenger following someone who did. Not every punishment pass is dangerous driving (although many would be) and not every dangerous driving is a punishment pass. Telling the account in a way which makes it about the intent not the manner of the driving actually makes it harder to get a conviction. In any case with your word against his a conviction even for the driving is very unlikely.

    The best you could hope for (assuming you had an number plate) without some supporting evidence – is police officer to turn up and ask questions and remind them of the risk vulnerable road users experience. I’m sceptical that anyone who intentionally drives how you describe would be transformed by this experience.

    Premier Icon ajaj
    Subscriber

    find out how few actually cover your area

    I know how few cover the area but…

    very different from not recording the offence – the latter is manipulating the statistics

    This is my main beef – they’re actually spending time, albeit not much, that could be spent dealing with crime fiddling the statistics (so that they can meet targets).

    having reviewed your statement and any CCTV

    They aren’t even bothering to collect the CCTV.

    swamp of fairly trivial stuff

    I’ve commuted by bike for 10 years. In that time I’ve had someone drive straight at my waving their fist, I’ve had a bus driver deliberately push me into the kerb because I was “taking up too much of the bus lane”, I’ve had another bus driver push my back wheel with the bus because he has “a timetable to meet” and cars routinely squeeze past at this junction. The day before this incident a taxi driver did the same thing, but more slowly and giving me slightly more space. This was not a trivial incident, I genuinely thought I was going to go under the car and lose my legs.

    ossify
    Member

    Not long ago while walking along I saw someone drive straight through a red light at speed (puffin crossing), it had already started beeping and people were starting to cross.

    No cameras nearby unless possibly he was caught on the nearby shop CCTV but I reported him to GMP anyway, they said they wouldn’t do anything directly based on my word but added his number to the ANPR system so that if they come across him in future they’ll stop him and have a word.

    Seemed like a good compromise to me.

    JackHammer
    Member

    Saw a tweet to do about Cardiff’s Taff Trail and how people have been getting mugged on it. South Wales Police’s response was “find an alternative route”. Active travel wooop.

    Premier Icon kcal
    Subscriber

    I’ve reported a close pass at speed on open road, where I reckoned the pass was too close. No injury, contact but def. felt uncomfortable. Police took details and phoned the driver, who hadn’t appreciated that he was so close, and undertook to be more careful.

    PrinceJohn
    Member

    I’ve had someone who passed too close, trying to run me off the road, I banged their rear wing a couple times. They then stopped had a pop I explained they were forcing me off the road, they then pushed me over. I reported it to the police, they went to have a word. The person denied it so no further action was taken.

    corkblork
    Member

    Slightly off topic but I reported a road rage incident where two cars were brake checking and trying to shove each other off the M40 at speed. It was the worst thing I have ever encountered in my driving life. I submitted dash cam evidence which clearly showed the number plates.

    TVP basically said that because that both drivers were not from the Thames Valley area they would only get a letter telling them off. While taking no action didn’t come as a surprise, I though their reasoning was odd. Does that mean any driver committing offenses outside their home region gets off lighter?

    I’m in too minds about bothering to submit dash cam footage again whether on bike or in car. I suppose there’s a risk that I miss an appeal for footage if a serious incident did occur.

    Premier Icon ajaj
    Subscriber

    Thames Valley area

    Its very much a postcode lottery

    Doing some digging it appears that Thames Valley are particularly bad. The Welsh forces and West Midlands are particularly good.

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
    Subscriber

    The Welsh forces and West Midlands are particularly good.

    Wales and West Mids are two of very few forces that still have motorcycle police. They supply most of the motorbike outriders to the Women’s Tour, Tour of Britain and Tour de Yorkshire.

    As a result, they’re pretty hot on knowing “cycling” – both from a race perspective and in day-to-day policing. And obviously West Mids is the “home force” behind Operation Close Pass.

    Most forces have long since lost their Moto police and all the skills (and empathy) that goes with it. Motorcyclists are usually very aware of things like close passing and dangerous driving.

    Premier Icon ajaj
    Subscriber

    Without becoming too distasteful, Thames Valley has lost two on-duty officers in vehicle incidents in recent years. They should be aware.

    Basically, if you want to kill someone and get away with it, hit them with a car.

    kerley
    Member

    Basically, if you want to kill someone and get away with it, hit them with a car.

    Yep, and that has always been the case. You may have to have your story very straight if it becomes knowledge that you knew the person/disliked the person and so on though otherwise more than a bit coincidental that the person you hit whilst driving was someone you had a problem with.

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