As STW as helped with input on many and varied decisions in the past (where to live, what car, VW T5 or not, how to remove stuck bolts etc etc)

Which would you choose? XL Pole Evolink or Cotic RocketMax (frames only – I have all the other bits)

I’ve seen the recent threads on LLS/hard-hitting 29ers, read the STW review of these 2 plus the Geometron and other reviews – how would you choose between them?

For me it seems to boil down to pretty much the following as the only differences that seem to matter:
Positive for Pole – Slightly steeper seat angle
Positive for Cotic – seems a well run company with great customer service and exceeding expectation (really not something that can be said for Pole!)

Critically, both are available. Complicating factor: I thought the Pole was and I ordered it weeks and weeks ago, but they have been utterly unable to actually ship it to me. Hopeless. I’ve been told its on the way this week, just as they have said many times, but that is patently not true so I’m really thinking of cancel and refund.

Background – I need a XL longer travel bike for big days and proper trails inc alps trips and some Enduro events (fingers crossed for this year!) . I am a huge fat knacker, currently ride a chi ti LLS 29+ 140mm hardtail that will stay, my previous full sus (2015 stumpy 29 Evo which I really hated) now being ridden by my son.

Thanks for any opinions!

Don’t be too hard on Pole, shipping has been a mess since November.

Your experience so far with Pole would answer that for me straight away.

Just check with Cotic what they think about your weight for the frame, if you were worried that might be an issue.

Can’t comment on the bikes specifically as I have no experience of either, but from what I can see from online chatter, Cotic seem to be provide very good customer service while Pole leave a lot to be desired in that department (they’ve even admitted it themselves). Pole bikes seem to ride very well (if you like long / stable bikes) but they appear to be a shower of sh1t in dealing with problems. Which they’ve had a lot of with the machined bikes apparently (don’t know about the evolink ones).

Also, the owner seems to come across like a bit of a a*** on forums whereas Cy comes across very well from what I can see. That alone means I personally wouldn’t touch Pole with a barge, erm, pole!😉. Given your spending a lot of money on a frame, I’d want some confidence that the company would be good to deal with if thee were any issues (which can happen to any bike).

Putting everything else aside and just comparing bikes, I’d take the Evolink. Unfortunately its not that simple though. I was on the verge of ordering a Stamina last year and joined the owners group on Facebook, which is full of tales of massive delays in shipping and unresolved warranty claims. I wanted to get the Pole, I really did. My wife is Finnish and I got to know one if the guys from Huck Norris quite well a couple of years ago. Unfortunately the FB group was enough to put me off. I ended up with a Geometron and couldn’t be happier.

Both bikes look great to me but if it was a straight choice ie no strong preference then it’d have to be Cotic. I’ve had unbelievable customer service from them in the past- I always say the same thing, they gave me the best warranty support I’ve ever had, even though I didn’t even have a warranty- my bike was an ex demo, bought used on ebay. And by the time I had any issues it was well out of the warranty it would have had, if I’d had one. And when I did have an issue it was because I broke at at Fort William on the world cup dh (and the second time, literally straight after racing the endurance downhill race there). So all of that would have been out of the warranty I didn’t have, even if I’d had it AND even if it’d still been within the warranty period.

But if you already ordered a Pole then that does suggest it’s your preference?

The big advantage they have, which you haven’t mentioned, is the innuendo that comes free with riding a massive long Pole.

Based on their more recent issues, there’s no way I’d buy a Pole. This article is not very reassuring:

https://m.pinkbike.com/news/pole-bicycles-ceo-resigns-company-founder-leo-kokkonen-to-take-leading-role.html

Regarding the actual bikes, the Cotic has a lower BB, more anti-squat (better pedalling), more seat tube insertion (longer dropper post possible), slacker head angle but shorter reach and chainstays. The Cotic suspension also looks far more bad weather friendly.

I’ve only had one Cotic but all my experience of pre and post sales interaction has been brilliant. I don’t think a direct sales company can do customer service better – and very few shops will be able to match it.

As above, I’d love a Pole but wouldn’t go near them after what I’ve read recently. So for that reason it would be Cotic or Bird for me but I am not sure about birds stock levels.

Cotic are great to deal with. Pole are by all accounts a disgrace when ut comes to dealing with customers. If its between those two, then Cotic all day long.

This thread is illuminating:

https://www.rotorburn.com/forums/index.php?threads/a-long-pole.317764/

When we are allowed out, get a test ride on a Geometron, I came off a 161 which had its issues (think they might have fixed them) and the shock tune was off.

Geometron are there to make sure the bike is properly setup and if you want to improve or change the way the bike does something, you can. Build quality is second to none, properly sealed bearings and well thought out, plus the nicolai welding.

You are potentially spending a lot of money, there shouldn’t be the issues that Pole has, the other two manufacturers would be where my money would be going.

Don’t really know anything much about those two specific bikes but I tried to get a test ride on a Pole when I lived in Finland. I tried and I failed. They were quite a new company then and I thought the bike might suit but never got a reply to emails or my calls answered.

A few years before that, I bought a Cotic Soul second hand. Called Cotic, had a chat with Paul who answered all my questions and seemed a very nice chap. And, along with everyone else who has ever owned one, I loved that bike.

You can probably guess where this is going… I’d go for the Cotic all day long!

I wouldn’t buy a cotic whilst they have their silly ‘put another shock on and you’ll void your warranty’ nonsense going on, so pole for me. Bikes like this deserve the option of a coil shock

Another voice to add to the Pole pile on.

To deal with, they are shockingly bad. The front man, Leo, is a total fud.
Endless excuses for terrible service on the FB groups. There’s always plenty time and energy for marketing though…

I had an evolink. It rode nicely enough, and a few years ago the options for that geo were very limited.
However, the horribly skinny lower link bearing was a total pain in the ass. Rough from new and constantly squeaky before seizing. The fundamental issue was the housing being machined out of spec. Unusual bearing, so expensive to replace.
That, and the (special tune RS) shock having issues, meant lots of downtime and frustration.
I’ve had a Starling murmur for 2.5 years now and the contrast is stark.
It’s a better bike, that’s the main thing, and the small issue I had with it was acknowledged and sorted out painlessly.

I’d recommend the Cotic, or a Starling.

Another Cotic fanboy here. I’ve had a 26er Simple (the final run of single-speed Souls), a 26er Rocket, and now a FlareMax. I even forgave them release the Jeht about a month after I got a FlareMax.

That saved you a lot of money though Ross!

Cotic customer service is great. I bought a BFe from them and had an issue with one of the cable guide bolts. Only a small thing but sorted it right away no questions asked.

When we were fortunate to be able to go to them in Calver I gave them a visit and irritated them with lost of questions about frame size and ended up getting a first generation RocketMAX from them. Cy ended up dropping it off in person as he drives past my front door on his way home. Not many companies have their owner founder hand delivering bikes I suspect.

If you wanted the whole long, low and slack experience I would recommend a nicolai (had mine g16 mk1 for 3 years now and will probably only replace it with a newer g16). I’m on the fb geomatron page and there are plenty of people that have owned a pole and switched to nicolai’s due to the customer service, breakages and suspension not as good.

If you can’t justify the cost (and it’s a high cost though I can’t think of another frame that you can set it up in what ever wheel size you want, travel options and even geometry settings to suit you) a cotic would be my pick between the two

I’ve had a Flaremax for 2.5 years now, and when/if I need to buy another FS it’ll be another Cotic.

First bike that’s really fitted me properly and I feel 100% safe on, even on the steepest Tweed Valley trails.

How long did the bearings last riding the tweed valley?

I am tempted to pull the trigger on a rocket frame.

I hate to be “that guy”, but I highly doubt Pole will still be in business two years or so in the future (at least as we know it).
Reliability has been shady since the beginning and only got worse with the Staminas, management PR is atrocious, they lost much of the geometry exclusively lately and are probably with an hefty debt after all the new manufacturing assets.

What’s even their value proposition right now? Made in Europe from a deceitfully wasteful manufacturing process?

Would go straight to Nicolai/Geometron budget allowing, if not then Bird or Cotic

Just Googled the Pole.
That is one fugly bike!

This is mine XL Evo 158, it’s a great bike very very quick and just seems to float through stuff, takes a bit of getting used to with the geo but does corner like it’s on rails. I’m in Cumbria if it wasn’t for the ‘Rona you could have had a look if you e not seen one in the flesh.

I’d be more concerned with a stamina than the Evo link, but their CS is bad and Leo isn’t much help hence the two Pole groups on FB. Depends on what important really Cotic isn’t as radical on the geo, but you know their going to look after you!

I’m thinking of going the other way I fancy a hard tail I’ve gone all bike packy! I think it’s all the working from home LoL.

zezaskar

What’s even their value proposition right now? Made in Europe from a deceitfully wasteful manufacturing process?

The EvoLink is a different beast, to be fair – it’s not milled and glued, and costs “only” €1950 for the frame, compared to the Stamina which is a whopping €5,150 frame only.

Same customer service/warranty for both though.

Well, **** and bollocks, I really did shoot the boot in plumping for the Pole, didn’t I.

However, this is not the first time I’ve approached the purchase of a Cotic for myself. Third time’s the charm! Will check on weight, but for size I think the frame will be big enough.

I’ve ‘bought’ a solaris, Solaris Max and Flare Max for friends in the last few years, time to feel the love myself.

Blue or Army Green? I think Army Green.

You may not want the confusion of another option, but I really would give Geometron a call.

How long did the bearings last riding the tweed valley?

I am tempted to pull the trigger on a rocket frame.

All original except for the drop-link bearings.

Those I replaced as when the X-Fusion dropper failed I bought a Brand-X one and (school boy error) just pulled out the outer/inner cable and them couldn’t get the new one in due to the pivot. Easiest way I could see was just to take the droplinks & pivot apart and loads of space – so I put new ones’ in anyway.

It’s done 3300 miles & 450,000 feet so far – can’t fault it.

Unless you’ve a hatered of 29’s, take a look at the RocketMax. I demo’d one just before the original lockdown – unreal ability on off-piste/steep trails.

@chakaping : That was sound advice re. checking weight for Cotic – at 115kg Cotic have informed me that the shock/suspension design won’t work that weight. Oh poop.

I do know that the lovely folks at bird have said the AM9 will work superbly for me.

However, I still have this Evolink on the way that is apparently still stuck in a post office in Helsinki.

So, with a rather flat outcome for this thread, I’ll just hang fire until the Evolink arrives and looks like I’ll be giving that a whirl. If that proves a disaster, it’ll be back to the drawing board (but likely with Bird at the top). Bedmaker doesn’t fill me with hope, but I will say their CS does seem to be going through a radical, for the better, transformation at the moment.

Wish me luck!

@big_scot_nanny – have you spoken to Geometron? Bikes for big fellas is something of a speciality of theirs, I’d say. The G1 comes in an XL and XXL size. I’m about 10kg lighter than you, but I’m only on a 500lb spring, so there’s plenty of scope to accommodate heavier riders, and the suspension is by far the best I’ve ever used.

@honourablegeorge no, I haven’t. Mostly as its, oooyah!, double what I am paying for the Evolink, and it doesn’t have a bottle mount I don’t think (I know thats pathetic, but I f’ing hate riding with a pack, haven’t done it for about 4 yrs now)

but, I suppose I really should give them a call given the number of recommendations!

Can always mount a fidlock bottle and mount to solve the Geometron or any frame that doesnt come with bottle mounts

Pole evolink is one of the ugliest frames of the modern lls era or even this century, just awful, no offence.

double what I am paying for the Evolink,

Post Brexit, is this still the same calculation?

Shame you’re too heavy for a Cotic – tbh I hadn’t even considered a weight limit, you’re a big unit.

They look alright to me.

On reflection though, I’d have investigated Privateer further if I were you OP.

Their frames appear to be overbuilt but still pedal well and they offer decent value with great CS.

I’d give Pole a deadline, whilst talking to the folks about Geometron. I once waited 10 months for a Cotic that never appeared, shit can happen to good companies.

Best of Luck BSN, hopefully get a ride with you in 21 to see whatever you end up with!.