We are dealing with mainly refugee’s here, they are escaping a war torn country. There are undoubtedly some economic migrants and some migrant workers too.

This.
And (partly thanks to the scumbag media in this country) the general public can’t differentiate between them.
I personally think we should be a doing a bit more to keep economic migrants out of the UK at the moment – if for no other reason but to allow us to help ‘genuine’ refugees.

That’s what you get when you vote Tory….

If only Tony Blair were still in charge eh..

I personally think we should be a doing a bit more to keep economic migrants out of the UK at the moment – if for no other reason but to allow us to help ‘genuine’ refugees.

I agree with you entirely but politically that’s seriously brave. An economic migrant and a migrant worker who want to build themselves a better life, likely by working and “contributing to the economy” are exactly what the press embrace. Refugees who come here with no view to work, merely to be safe and not get killed are seen as spongers. It’s a terrible state of affairs, with me easy solution. It’s also not a Tory/Labour problem, they’re both as inept at fixing it as each other.

Free agent – I must have missed Blair saying he doesn’t want to take in more this week. Can you show me where he said that?

Free agent – I must have missed Blair saying he doesn’t want to take in more this week. Can you show me where he said that?

He didn’t, but he did go to war in Iraq and helped light this tinderbox.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/iceland/11835537/10000-Icelanders-offer-to-house-Syrian-refugees-after-authors-call.html

“I’m a single mother with a 6-year-old son… We can take a child in need. I’m a teacher and would teach the child to speak, read and write Icelandic and adjust to Icelandic society. We have clothes, a bed, toys and everything a child needs. I would of course pay for the airplane ticket,” wrote Hekla Stefansdottir in a post.

-that made me feel like a coward for not doing more

I agree with you entirely but politically that’s seriously brave. An economic migrant and a migrant worker who want to build themselves a better life, likely by working and “contributing to the economy” are exactly what the press embrace.

Yep, probably political suicide, however Australia appears to manage it reasonably well.

I heard a quite interesting feature on R4 a few weeks back where they were interviewing ‘migrants’ in the camps near Calais.
Every single one of them said they wanted to get to the UK for the same reason, and that was so they could work in the ‘black economy’ which is apparently easier here due to us not having national ID cards.
The idea that they all turn up in Dover and immediately claim £25k a year in benefits is complete fiction (although a bit of this may have gone on a few years ago)

This is such a terrible situation, however I do feel that we (we Tony Blair and George Bush) played a reasonable part in causing it.

Any suggestion that the 5th richest country in the world* can’t afford to provide basic food and shelter for all its citizens and many more besides is so far beyond ridiculous I don’t know what to say.

Quite. It’s not that we can’t, it’s that we won’t. We’d rather blame people with a tan coming over and stealing our jobs whilst quietly sticking our moat-cleaning bills on expenses. So instead we appease our guilt by occasionally looking at pictures on the Internet and feeling a bit sad about it. It’s a masterclass in misdirection.

Sadly, other than the Guy Fawkes Imperative and arming the IPSO with weapons of mass destruction I’m not sure what the answer is.

Freeagent – I must have missed Blair saying he doesn’t want to take in more this week. Can you show me where he said that?

He didn’t, but he did go to war in Iraq and helped light this tinderbox.

This is exactly what I was getting at..

I think you’ve missed the point I was making with my response to Freeagent (not your fault).I’m very aware of what Blair and has done in the world…he’s a **** too.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/iceland/11835537/10000-Icelanders-offer-to-house-Syrian-refugees-after-authors-call.html

“I’m a single mother with a 6-year-old son… We can take a child in need. I’m a teacher and would teach the child to speak, read and write Icelandic and adjust to Icelandic society. We have clothes, a bed, toys and everything a child needs. I would of course pay for the airplane ticket,” wrote Hekla Stefansdottir in a post.

-that made me feel like a coward for not doing more

I think we could (and probably should) offer to do the same..
2 spare rooms, two young kids who would make great older sisters, etc.
Not sure exactly how you’d go about it though.

edenvalleyboy – Member

I think you’ve missed the point I was making with my response to Freeagent (not your fault).I’m very aware of what Blair and has done in the world…he’s a **** too.

I’m well aware Cameron is a ****, but I’m not convinced any UK political leader (in a position of power) would say much different at the moment (Labour can say what they like – people have another 4 1/2 years to forget it)

as others have pointed out, there appears to be a lot of cross talk and confusion between refugee’s, economic migrants and migrant workers.

what we are talking about here is refugees fleeing from oppressive regimes with horrendous human rights records and where the alternative is religious fundamentalists that torture and kill the population – no much of a choice is it and no wonder they will willingly take their life in their hands to leave, what choice do they have.

if you want to help, sacrifice spending the next £xx on the shiny YY part you “need” for you bike and donate the money to a reputable charity appeal such as the below (not the only one in town)

it won’t solve the problem, but it will make a difference and rleive suffering – stop making excuses

https://donate.oxfam.org.uk/emergency/syria

There are more politiancs and parties than just Labour and Conservative (who are essentially all subscribing to the neo-liberalist agenda). We do have choices to change the thinking of this country (and potentially be more accepting of issues like the people crisis going on now)- but hegemony makes it difficult.

To differentiate between refugees from conflict and those who want to move for economic reasons is near nigh impossible . Where do you draw the line?
(probably around the Turkish border and across the med?)
I would bet that many in this country have an element of sympathy for refugees but not economic migrants. If we were not under pressure from the latter there might be more sympathy for the former.

To those who feel strongly about this or any other issue I say go ahead and do something. I am sure that your efforts will be appreciated. However what is so very wrong is to try to pretend that to do so is the wish of everyone. It isn’t. To try to pretend that anyone who doesn’t want to help is bad is also wrong.
It is terrible that anyone should suffer in this way but no one has the right to suggest that others should have the same sympathy as themself. It would be polite at the least to prefix many of the above comments with “in my opinion” and not try to impose selfish/self indulgent views on others. Bit like the helmet debate really.

Whilst I am moaning would people stop trying to slap their left wing moaning onto rather more important topics.
Ever noticed that its the so called goody two shoes, social minded, kind hearted socialists who preach consideration for all, who are the least considerate of other peoples views?
If you want to have a go at UK politicians start your own topic.

When I suggested that individuals do something I was on the lines of spend your won money first.

Mattsccm, in the spirit of this thread I would happily devote say an hour a week to help you with your English comprehension, reasoning skills, and perhaps a primer on human rights.

bencooper – Member
There are homeless and starving in this country and we don’t have the resources to look after them.
Sure we do, many times over.

We just spunk it on buying new nuclear submarines and other rubbish instead.

Any suggestion that the 5th richest country in the world* can’t afford to provide basic food and shelter for all its citizens and many more besides is so far beyond ridiculous I don’t know what to say.

*or is it 6th now? Whatever.

I’ll cut and paste this as it says exactly what I wanted to.

Mattscm – I’m proud to be the person in your second from last paragraph. The opposite would be a heartless, mean spirited do-badder…

To try to pretend that anyone who doesn’t want to help is bad is also wrong.

**** that, if you see the body of a child washed up on the beach knowing that thousands of others face the same perils fleeing their homeland and don’t want to do something to prevent that happening then you’re a bad person.

You may feel powerless, you may feel frightened, you not know what you can do, you may just be so apathetic or desensitised that the moment washes past you but if you don’t want to help that child in that split second then you’re lacking in basic human compassion.

I would bet that many in this country have an element of sympathy for refugees but not economic migrants. If we were not under pressure from the latter there might be more sympathy for the former.

I’d bet that many in this country would have more sympathy for the former if we stopped bundling them all together as “immigrants” and demonising the lot of them.

I think we need to start with an empathy transplant for folk who can see that and then prioritise our “first world ” suffering

So many of the internet users fail the Turing Test as they lack basic human decency

I would gladly open up my home to a family fleeing war to offer them shelter and security. They could have a roof over their heads, warmth and food whilst figuring out what needs to be done to sort out their future (claiming asylum, visas etc). I suspect it is not as simple as that though and there would be much red tape to go through if indeed this is currently even legal. I would be interested in knowing how to go about this if anyone knew where I could find out the details.

This is an international crisis in which the wealthy of the world have played the largest hand in creating. It is time for the UN to declare a worldwide state of emergency and get this shit sorted out. If the wealthy of the world need to cough up some of our cash to do so then so be it.

Why can’t a secure zone be established and run by the UN nearer where these people are running from. I’ve seen hotels and student accommodation being built up in a few days from converted shipping containers. God knows there are enough of them about and plenty of ships to transport them also. If these people had a centralised place of safety to go to, they could then apply to the country that they wanted to resettle in.

Collectively the people of this world who are sitting comfortably in their war free homes sucking up the worlds diminishing resources have some tough decisions to make, this current problem is only going to get worse until we get into a state of world war. By then it will be too late to sort out.

Those pictures are just about the most heartbreaking thing I’ve ever seen. We caused that and we’re doing nothing about it. I’ve got a family and a comfortable life which I don’t deserve any more than that little boy or his family did. I got lucky and was born here, that’s it.

Politics usually gets me angry, but this just makes me feel hopeless and ashamed.

Write to your MP engage with them and make them aware that “THIS SHALL NOT STAND”. The more of us that do this the better the chance of a change in approach.
When the sea-change happens in parliament happens and Murdoch et al start laying into the MPs in the press they can point to the correspondence as to why we have a new policy.
Please write, especially if your MP is Conservative.

The lack of humanity shown by Cameron and some of his cronies in TV interviews really reinforces their image as the nasty party. People are fleeing for their lives from an evil regime and the world needs to show compassion and provide real help not platitudes.

We are in Germany and is a little different as shown on the BBC…

Apartments are being built in our village, full on construction not temporary…..

We have just signed up as volunteers to help as has a lot of the village. Early days but let’s see…

Ever noticed that its the so called goody two shoes, social minded, kind hearted socialists who preach consideration for all, who are the least considerate of other peoples views?

Yes, because caring about someone’s feelings is exactly the same as caring about whether they live or die. We’re talking about consideration of human lives here, and you’re worried that some people’s views are being disrespected?

Dont know if these petitions help but..

https://www.change.org/p/rt-hon-theresa-may-mp-no-more-drownings-immediate-sanctury-for-those-fleeing-from-war?recruiter=22238713&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=des-lg-share_petition-no_msg&fb_ref=Default

and some ideas about what you can do to help..
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/5-practical-ways-you-can-help-refugees-trying-to-find-safety-in-europe-10482902.html

as others have mentioned in this thread i have the ability to house at least some of those in need.
i like many in this country lead a decadent life – i rent a 3 bed house that is empty other than me!
ffs that is embarrassing while looking at these pictures.

there is an asylum office down the road from me, (there is one in most cities i guess) im going to ring them tomorrow to see if i can help. im sure there will be a load of red tape hassle but there are children crossing the med on leaky boats and i can’t watch that unfolding without trying to help

imagine the horror they are fleeing that makes them load their children into those boats 😥

Looking into ways we could take in refugees here – looks like there will be some local organisation to help facilitate this hopefully.

There are homeless and starving in this country and we don’t have the resources to look after them.

Amazing that people have swallowed this utter nonsense. We all sit here posting about our expensive mountain bikes probably on iPads and iPhones that none of us really need and claim that we ‘can’t afford’ basic human decency. Hmm….

Amazing that people have swallowed this utter nonsense. We all sit here posting about our expensive mountain bikes probably on iPads and iPhones that none of us really need and claim that we ‘can’t afford’ basic human decency. Hmm….

we lack the will not the money

UK always seems the furthest to get to for some of the refugees, passing through others who could accept them, but don’t. Do they do this because the likes of UK are comparitively easy to “get in to” and slip under the radar?

Our lovely Australia was in the news recently as it seems the navy were paying boat owners to turn around and take people back.

Greed causes inequality and when you have inequality occasionally the have nots will pop up and trouble our consciences, they’ll go away after a while though and you can buy a new Audi which will make it alright again.

The only solution is long term and starts at elections, the results of which suggest we don’t actualy care that much.

I had to walk out of a conversation at work yesterday because of the vial comments people were making. The ignorance of some people is staggereing, I’m known as a massively laid back person but this is really getting to me, glad some posts have been put up for what ‘the little man’ like me can do, but I worry that it’s gone to far. The planet is broken and it’s all our fault.

IdleJon – Member
bencooper – Member
There are homeless and starving in this country and we don’t have the resources to look after them.
Sure we do, many times over.
We just spunk it on buying new nuclear submarines and other rubbish instead.

Any suggestion that the 5th richest country in the world* can’t afford to provide basic food and shelter for all its citizens and many more besides is so far beyond ridiculous I don’t know what to say.

*or is it 6th now? Whatever.

I’ll cut and paste this as it says exactly what I wanted to.

Me too.

Let the bleeding heart landlords on here open their doors to homing some of the people in that case?
spare room? Take one in.

make no mistake, when these people have got their feet under the table they will want to turn this country into a replica of the place they fled.

The problem needs to be stopped at source.
its a stealth IS invasion.
how do you think they feel? They will be clapping their hands.
Let migrants settle, give them benefits, voting etc, then send the radical preachers in.

as others say, this country needs to look after itself first.
Where is your outrage for our homeless in this country?

Think I’ve heard those comments before, around 1939, bloke with a ‘tash talking about the Jewish invading Europe.

Let the bleeding heart landlords on here open their doors to homing some of the people in that case?
spare room? Take one in.

Yup, happy to – we’ve got a room that could be converted to take a couple of people or a young family, if they can get here.

make no mistake, when these people have got their feet under the table they will want to turn this country into a replica of the place they fled.

This was the Lonely Planet entry for Homs in 2008:

This is Homs now:

Which version are they going to turn the UK into?

You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.

its a stealth IS invasion.

On that basis the Jews fleeing Hitler were Nazis.

In answer to the OP’s question:

Get out on the streets and persuade your government that the 4 million allotted to improving security in Calais would be better spent on welcoming refugees.

Which version are they going to turn the UK into?

Ive not been to Homs but have visited Damascus. It is official state policy to blame ze jews for all their problems, and the average Syrian retains these views (although the Christian Syrians do not for the most part share these views).

It I were a UK Jew I’d be concerned over continued mass immigration from Muslim countries. Although I understand from what I’ve read by others on here about Israel that they’d think that a good thing.