Please do not ride on footpaths.

  • This topic has 136 replies, 88 voices, and was last updated 7 years ago by  kevj.
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  • Please do not ride on footpaths.
  • As someone stated “the reaction I expected” but put to the back of my mind. To be in the “i’ll ride where I want” mindset, is very narrow minded. Is biking the only way to enjoy the outdoors? Seems you think so, I feel sorry for you. If you want the right to ride on FOOTpaths, write off to peak national park or whoever it is looks after your park and appeal. Until then you have no right to ride there, same as I have no right to break into your house.

    clubber
    Member

    That’s a very poor argument.

    To be in the “i’ll ride where I want” mindset, is very narrow minded

    If footpaths really were in existence because bikes and horses would otherwise trash them, there’d maybe be justification and many in this thread have stated that they wouldn’t ride where they’d do damage. As it is, bikes have never been proven to do more damage than feet. The designation of footpath/bridleway is often silly and largely based on what some bloke ages ago fancied/was paid/persuaded to mark them as. It’s a silly rule.

    Junkyard
    Member

    yes I have bridelways that ar eopen moorland and forptahs that are hard packed stone or man made. I would trash one legally but leave one undamaged illegally.
    There is not always a clear reason for why one path is a BW and one a footpath

    Premier Icon Mark
    Subscriber

    You have no legal right of way into my house – This is a civil distinction. If you break into my house you have committed a crime – This is a criminal distinction.

    You have no ‘right of way’ on a footpath as a cyclist – this is a civil matter.

    These are all legal distinctions that in no way affect the argument as to whether you ‘should’ be there or not.

    Premier Icon ir_bandito
    Subscriber

    Until then you have no right to ride there, same as I have no right to break into your house

    Have you read all the articles about access recently?

    If you break into my house, that’s burglary which is a criminal offence.

    If I ride my bike on a footpath, that’s trespass, which is a civil
    offence, except where local byelaws apply, and even then its only a fine to the appropriate body.

    devs
    Member

    It’s not a silly rule at all. Look at Scotland where the world has ended because all the paths are shared use.
    When I’m down south I ride where I want although this is mostly at trail centres. I’ll have some fun if anyone ever tries to stop me and give me a bollocking.

    Premier Icon ir_bandito
    Subscriber

    Question for you:

    Footpath or bridleway?

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Is biking the only way to enjoy the outdoors? Seems you think so, I feel sorry for you.

    Gee, fanks!

    If you want the right to ride on FOOTpaths, write off to peak national park or whoever it is looks after your park and appeal

    That’s some pretty revolutionary stuff you’re proposing there fella. I’m sure that would never have occurred to anyone before you mentioned it. I feel 100% certain that its never been done before

    Tell you what – I’ll rattle a letter off this afternoon. I shall then sit back and await ALL the footpaths in East Lancs to be reclassified as bridleway by tomorrow tea time.

    That’s how this whole democracy thing works, isn’t it? What could conceivably go wrong?

    And just for you – Here’s a clip I found on Youtube of my personal favourite footpath. In fact, I imagine its a lot of peoples favourite ….

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o54vcF5vrbs[/video]

    mtb2020
    Member

    Well Singletrack World could always take up bike access as a campaign and start galvanising ministers, MPs and National Park authorities, council officials etc, to do something about it. Start petitions, get lots of people on your side, and I’m sure they’ll listen – well eventually …. maybe …?!

    thomthumb
    Member

    To be in the “i’ll ride where I want” mindset, is very narrow minded.

    most people haven’t said i’ll ride where i want though. most people have commented on the strange and historic way we arrived at where we are.

    what harm am i doing riding across this bridge? which is designated a footpath.

    mtb2020
    Member

    Funny, that footpath looks like a road to me. And to be honest I’ve some some roads that would be better off as footpaths.

    klumpy
    Member

    This is obviously an evidence gathering thread for the Ramblers (note capital R).

    Once upon a time, they wanted to open up countryside access, now they campaign to restrict it; what a great bunch of folks they’ve become. As has already been pointed out, they’d not have any footpaths in the first place if people way back when had just followed the rules.

    I heartily support anyone who wants to pit themselves against the terrain (using anything from boots to land rovers, even though my own interest stops at anything bigger than motorbikes) who politely and civilly just goes out and does it – our laws are a hopeless kludge based on momentum and rhetoric instead of evidence.

    Premier Icon cardo
    Subscriber

    Lovin that vid Binners…. πŸ˜€

    richc
    Member

    As it is, bikes have never been proven to do more damage than feet.

    Come on who on here believes that a bike does less damage then a walker on soft muddy ground, bikes cut long vertical trenches compared to a squashed footprint.

    Premier Icon ir_bandito
    Subscriber

    bikes cut long vertical trenches compared to a squashed footprint.

    Vertical? You need a ladder…

    Anyway, bikes on the whole (if not ridden by jessies) are more likely to go through the middle of a boggy pathc, rather than than skirting further and further around it.

    Maybe we should all be riding fatbikes.

    mtb2020
    Member

    I like biking and walking, and I think they can both peacefully co-exist. It’s the fell-runners that are the problem – only kidding …..

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Heres another one cardo – with a big off in the middle of it πŸ™‚

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O56xs0OXi5U[/video]

    Can anyone really see any reason why that isn’t a bridleway? If the Ramblers, or whoever, made any serious attempt to stop us all riding down the San Marino, they’d have a war on their hands!

    Premier Icon wors
    Subscriber

    In all the time i’ve ridden down san marino I haven’t been stopped or moaned at once. Always a cheery hello if there are people walking up or down. And stop posting videos of it, it’s mine. πŸ‘Ώ

    geebus
    Member

    As someone stated “the reaction I expected” but put to the back of my mind. To be in the “i’ll ride where I want” mindset, is very narrow minded. Is biking the only way to enjoy the outdoors? Seems you think so, I feel sorry for you. If you want the right to ride on FOOTpaths, write off to peak national park or whoever it is looks after your park and appeal. Until then you have no right to ride there, same as I have no right to break into your house.

    So you never break any rules at all?
    Fair enough. People that don’t drive/ride motorbikes on the road often do find it pretty easy to do so.
    People that do use motorised vehicles on the road either do break the law pretty regularly, or kid themselves they don’t :).
    And yes, it is illegal and people have been done for being 1mph over the limit.

    rewski
    Member

    I’m glad I live in Scotland where we have sensible access regulations…

    I thought that one would be coming πŸ˜‰

    BTW: this post is both naive and annoyingly Daily Mail-eque, may I suggest you call in to Jeremy Vine, he might be slightly more interested with you banal rant.

    antigee
    Member

    klumpy

    This is obviously an evidence gathering thread for the Ramblers (note capital R).

    Once upon a time, they wanted to open up countryside access, now they campaign to restrict it

    i guess this is an internet forum and diverse opinions are ok but i’d be interested in knowing which Ramblers Association campaign involves any intent to restrict access to the countryside ?

    here is some help http://www.ramblers.org.uk/Campaigns+Policy/Campaigns

    if you mean that local groups that are members of the RA sometimes oppose “upgrading” footpaths to bridleway status because of a perception of conflict then i don’t see that as a campaign – just ignorance

    Edit just read last part of klumpy’s post – closet greenlaner

    geebus
    Member

    Not yet no, there’s still the <2% of rights of way that motorvehicles can use.
    But they need some ammunition to justify their fees for when they’ve got read of that group.

    /out-of-the-closet greenlaner (though I haven’t for several years as prefer proper enduro events etc)

    funny topic to read πŸ™„

    But like others have said there is no legal rules with footpaths as its at the discretion of the land owner.

    In our local wood there are quote” footpaths” and bridleways ect, but everyone whos a MTB rides the footpaths due to the bridleways being used by motobike riders and making 2 foot deep holes like a farmers field in them.

    The local farmer is a good friend of the MTBs and he even opens up land for us to ride in, which is good.

    He does this because most MTB riders maintain the land and “footpaths” ie putting logs down abd bridging gaps which normally couldnt be walked across, in turn people can walk into areas of the wood they couldnt before.

    so it works both ways, respect the woodland rather than asking for respect yourselfs.

    Premier Icon jameso
    Subscriber

    I’ve not read all this but I assume someone’s mentioned how walkers got their access rights in the first place? And obviously access rights in the UK predate MTBs?

    Common sense, respect for other users and the environment, plus some courtesy. All that overrules daft access rights in my mind. If it’s a public right of way I’ll ride it with due care and attention. I may avoid some of these ROWs when wet / busy etc – common sense + courtesy as per the above rule.

    Perhaps when someone starts paying attention to 4×4 use on local bridleways and horses on footpaths, then I’ll pay a bit more attention to those who criticise where I ride. In my local area I’m a long way from being the major cause of erosion and trail degradation. Many bridleways here are impassable in winter due to 4×4 and horse use. Even some footpaths are a state from the same users.

    OP, with respect, please don’t ask / tell me what to do or say I’m narrow minded for doing what I do. Rules with no sensible basis deserve to be ignored and you can’t solve a problem caused by a minority by dealing with the whole group.

    Premier Icon ir_bandito
    Subscriber

    I ought to say, about that pic up there ^
    Its an old miners track, used for years (centuries?) by pack-horses. Now used by farmers/shepherds on quad bikes, so clearly a sturdy track.
    In one of his books, Wainwright describes it as a bridleway.

    On the OS map, its a footpath.

    Its also a pleasant climb on the bike, and a cracking swoopy descent. πŸ™‚

    mrlebowski
    Member

    As someone stated “the reaction I expected” but put to the back of my mind. To be in the “i’ll ride where I want” mindset, is very narrow minded. Is biking the only way to enjoy the outdoors? Seems you think so, I feel sorry for you. If you want the right to ride on FOOTpaths, write off to peak national park or whoever it is looks after your park and appeal. Until then you have no right to ride there, same as I have no right to break into your house.

    TBH John you dont sound a lot like someone who ACTUALLY rides a bike..Youre far too confrontational to be a genuine MTBr. There have been threads on here before on this subject & I dont recall anyone taking such a pro attitude as yours..Difference of opinions yes, but never anyone advocating the retention of the status quo as strongly as you…

    Seriously I think youre a troll looking to garner some of evidence of trail abuse to further an as yet unknown agenda.

    Boys & Girls my advice is to stay away from this thread. It smacks of deception to me…The OP is not to be trusted I feel.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    Given that the OP posts on a few of the Bivi threads I’m assuming he’s bivi’d in various locations.

    Just wondering how many of those might be considered ‘cheeky’ rather than properly registered campsites?

    mrlebowski
    Member

    Given that the OP posts on a few of the Bivi threads I’m assuming he’s bivi’d in various locations.

    Just wondering how many of those might be considered ‘cheeky’ rather than properly registered campsites?

    Yep. Strange attitude for one who seems to love getting away from it all..perhaps he was having a bad day & needed to vent? Nonetheless his stance seems an odd one & quite contrary..

    Ecky-Thump
    Member

    Ah go on then, as its apparently not just a good trolling.

    Q.
    Is this matter being dealt with by the
    Footpath Liberation Front of Lancashire…
    or the
    Front for the Liberation of Lancashire Footpaths…
    or the
    Liberation Front for the Footpaths of Lancashire…
    etc….ad nauseam.

    In the mean time, until someone starts a credible and organised campaign of civil disobedience, I think I’ll just carry on being courteous to those that I meet whilst riding anywhere I fancy.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    If the ****ing Footpath Liberation Front of Lancashire come anywhere near my ****ing footpaths trails, I’ll take them to the ****ing cleaners!!!!!

    Footpath Liberation Front of Lancashire? SPLITTERS!!!

    Ecky-Thump
    Member

    you’ve got the idea Binners πŸ™‚

    Premier Icon schnor
    Member

    My 2p worth: –

    It, IMHO, boils down to bad timing in the 50’s when PRoWs were recorded. Parish surveyors, in fairness, didn’t really pay as much attention to recording the status of route as they should have done; in the surveyors mind it wouldn’t really matter if it was a BW or not, simply because horses weren’t really used as much as they were pre-WW2, and of course, MTB’s weren’t invented yet. Their task was predominantly to record the alignment of the path and to write a simple description.

    If the exercise were repeated today it’d envisage it being unless there is a reason not to, record it as a BW and allow walkers / horses / bikes. There would be though a new classification of recorded RoW for use by walkers and bikes only, like a cycle path.

    Of course there’s also the old chestnut of BW’s only having to be of a standard suitable for horses, not bikes. Magically changing every FP to a BW would be great, but there’d be more to do.

    It, again IMO, would be easier if riding on a FP *was* a criminal offence as it’d be easier to legalise / decriminalise it. At present, and its been mentioned above, as it’s a civil offence it can’t be easily be resolved by statute – i.e. how can you legalise something when its not illegal?

    Uhh, what was the question again? πŸ˜›

    geebus
    Member

    Well, we don’t “get away with it”, we just have a system that works better than the randomness and complexity of bridleways. Scotland on average is low population density, but if you ride somewhere like the Pentlands you’re 15 minute’s drive from the city, or 5 minutes ride from my house, not low population at all.

    Sorry, you ‘get away with it’ in the manner that you don’t have loads of people complaining about mountain bikers, etc.
    Ie, when out greenlaning on a motorbike you will still often see people having a go (even when you’ve seen them ahead, pulled over and stopped to let them walk past) despite doing everything absolutely legally.

    Premier Icon deadkenny
    Subscriber

    I get that on tow paths (the ones where they permit cycling). As per the instructions on my local one, all signposted, I’m courteous, slow down, stop, give way and always give people on foot priority. I’ll even get off and walk past if it’s a family with little kids or a dog that looks like it will run all over the place.

    Still, I get the dirty looks, shouts about not ringing my bell (for one I don’t use a bell, and second they hear me perfectly well and even turn round to look, turn back then shout about the bell situation), and the stubborn folk who see me and proceed to refuse to let me past despite holding back, waiting for them to make room, asking politely. Usually older folk who do it. Miserable gits. Get a life and just enjoy the outdoors with the rest of us.

    Actually on the bell situation, when I have used one, with plenty of notice, they pretend to jump out of their skin and proceed to shout at me also or at least a dirty look.

    Come on who on here believes that a bike does less damage then a walker on soft muddy ground, bikes cut long vertical trenches compared to a squashed footprint

    Making some sweeping assumptions: since a hiker and walker have equivalent power, trail-pressure relates to weight and “footprint”. Since me+bike is fractionally heavier than me, and my tyre-print is smaller than my boot-print, I expect biking has a bit more impact. But not significantly more.

    The erosion we can see indicates a very welcome increase in trail use by all user-groups. The issue is how to manage the impact of this new popularity. The “legal” crap is a total red-herring. IMO.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Member

    It, IMHO, boils down to bad timing in the 50’s when PRoWs were recorded.

    The problem is a rather more recent one than that – late ’60s IIRC when cyclists very nearly got the right to ride on footpaths in the one and only chance at sorting out the issue.

    TBH I’m really not sure I care that much about whether I’m trespassing riding on a FP. The law which really rankles is the one which says it’s illegal (as in the police can prosecute you for it) to race a bicycle on a BW when it’s perfectly legal to race on a FP (hence in some events the FPs are allowed, the BWs not), and also perfectly legal to race a motorbike on a BW. The idiot minister in charge of CROW really didn’t understand the point about that when it was raised as a motion a few years ago.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    geebus – Member

    Sorry, you ‘get away with it’ in the manner that you don’t have loads of people complaining about mountain bikers, etc.

    Actually, we do. There’s nothing magically different about people north of the border (well, apart from being paler and frequently more ginger)

    geebus
    Member

    Ah, that’s not the experience of the people I know that ride motorbikes off road in Scottish countryside – where it’s actually illegal, as opposed to in the UK where I often got hassle when I was being legal.

    Stoner
    Member

    Im waith aracer really.

    As long as its a civil issue, I couldnt acre a monkeys.

    The “offence” is to cause damage, we all know that we’re not causing any real quantifiable damage in most cases of riding on footpaths.

    What annoys me, like aracer, is when it’s no longer civil, such as bylaws.
    Its not that one’s any more likely to get banged up, just that the offence is no longer linked to damage, but simply by riding a bike in a specific place where a law declares you cant. The sanctions usually arnt that serious, but its usual that somewhere with such bylaws will have the machinery in place to make riding there awkward such as having rangers, patrols, anti-bike trail barriers etc.

    FWIW, ride on doods, the man cant touch you…mostly….

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