Viewing 27 posts - 1 through 27 (of 27 total)
  • Planning permission for raising chimney
  • Premier Icon RichPenny
    Free Member

    So I’ve just moved into a thatched cottage which has a pretty low chimney stack and a log burner. Was hoping that chimney alterations would fall under permitted development. But after discussion with the planning officer and checking the portal, it seems raising to more than 1M above the ridge requires planning permission. Building ridge for thatch states 1.8M is required and I have a quote for 1.2M plus 600mm chimney pot to meet regs. So basically removing current pots, few more courses of brick and re-cap.

    Any advice on a planning application for what seems to be a simple alteration? Something should approach myself, or best to get a surveyor in? Only ever owned a flat before so this is definitely new territory for me!

    Premier Icon twinw4ll
    Free Member

    Have you considered an extension with twinwall insulated flue system?
    Might not be right for this situation, but I would investigate this option.
    Poujoulat is your friend.

    Premier Icon sharkbait
    Free Member

    TBH, seeing as you’re doing work that makes the chimney comply with building regs, I’d just do it.

    Have you considered an extension with twinwall insulated flue system?

    Thatched chip shop!

    Premier Icon intheborders
    Free Member

    TBH, seeing as you’re doing work that makes the chimney comply with building regs, I’d just do it.

    +1 and wouldn’t have let them know…

    Premier Icon Rockhopper
    Free Member

    Easy DIY job to submit that for planning, they would probably accept simple sketches and maybe even a photograph that you’ve drawn on with some dimensions added. Is it in a conservation area or is the building listed?

    Premier Icon jam-bo
    Full Member

    TBH, seeing as you’re doing work that makes the chimney comply with building regs, I’d just do it.

    there is no requirement to keep your property in line with current building regs so I’m not sure that would trump any planning requirements.

    Premier Icon sharkbait
    Free Member

    there is no requirement to keep your property in line with current building regs

    True, but it would be hard for them to deny it – especially as house insurance might be compromised by a lower then regs chimney (seeing as it’s thatched).
    Anyway, I’d still just do it.

    To the OP: why do you want to do this anyway – has you’re insurance company said anything?
    If it worked before it will still work now!

    Premier Icon Greybeard
    Full Member

    It’s correct that Building Regs are not generally retrospective, but if it’s for fire safety there may be other legal requirements. I can’t actually find anything in Building Regs (AD B for England & Wales) about thatch and chimneys. Unless it’s a listed building or in a conservation area I can’t see why there would be an objection, just a nuisance that you have to apply.

    Premier Icon andykirk
    Free Member

    If it’s anything fire related I would definitely make sure it complies with Planning and Building Regs. As far as Building Regs are concerned you don’t dick around with stuff like that – especially as it is thatched!

    Premier Icon dangeourbrain
    Full Member

    Unless it’s a listed building or in a conservation area I can’t see why there would be an objection, just a nuisance that you have to apply.

    Given its thatched I’d be double and triple checking that bit, it’s unlikely to be an 70s council estate build. It’s also likely to be a “pretty” property so I’d absolutely expect complaints and objections, usually from the very people who will scream murder when your property isn’t tip-top pretty and needs significant remedy as they objected to all the planning applications you submitted for preventative works.

    This might not be the STW answer but the better approach is probably* to remove the log burner rather than getting planning and carrying out the work.

    *I fully accept the available alternatives may be worse or non existent but an awful lot of log burners (mine included) are in houses with much better methods of heating them.
    FWIW unless I’ve been told to fix it, I’d be leaving it as is.

    Premier Icon RichPenny
    Free Member

    To answer some of the questions:

    Something definitely needs doing – current burner install is about 20 years old and conforms to no regs whatsoever. Flue ends about 2M up the chimney and there’s no liner at all. Previous owner has been happily burning coal on it. But either wasn’t insured or it was invalid. Will definitely have twin wall insulated flue.

    I guess my view is I want to be compliant with both planning rules and building regs. I definitively need the liner and a bit of extra height for my insurance to work. Obviously at the moment I’m not using the log burner.

    I am in a AONB (Cranborne Chase), so I can have a look to see if anything similar has come up before. There’s clearly a few in the village with a similar mod. House isn’t listed so at least that’s one thing.

    I love the idea of drawing it up myself, but I think a montage of “Stickman pointing at Chimney”, “Stickman holding arms 1M apart”, “Stickman holding arms “1.8M apart” might not do the trick. Any surveyors on the forum willing to give it a go?

    Premier Icon mattyfez
    Free Member

    Sounds like a problem that must have arsien for simmilar property owners, have a look round your local area and see if you can see what others have done, as you said.

    Is there a singlethatchworld forum for enthusiasts of thatch cotages?

    Premier Icon joshvegas
    Free Member

    You could just lower the house and not tell anyone.

    Premier Icon twistedpencil
    Full Member

    Sounds daft, but stick a photo of your roof line on here and I’m sure someone would be able to knock a reasonable sketch for you to copy.   Possibly even involving exploding penguins.

    Premier Icon Vader
    Free Member

    If you haven’t read this already, it’s useful

    https://www.thatchadvicecentre.co.uk/thatch-fire-prevention/specific-advice/chimneys

    Making an application is not difficult, with a scale rule you can draw a clear and simple scale drawing which will suffice. Spend the money on a decent stonemason instead

    Premier Icon slowpuncheur
    Full Member

    OP. Don’t conflate Building Regs and Planning. The two overlap to some degree but consent of one doesn’t confer any sort of approval for the other. You do need planning permission so you have a choice 1. Apply. Councils (without exception that I know) won’t validate an application without full measured drawings (plans and elevations). As it’s a chimney they might use some discretion to allow to avoid drawing up full elevations of the whole house. If you could use something like Google sketchup and ensure the drawings are PDF’d at scale, you could do it yourself. Alternatively, get a plan drawer (not an architect -over qualified) who can do what’s required. Check on your Council’s website to see who the usual suspects are for similar householder applications (described as ‘agent’ on the Council’s planning search facility). Option 2: Just do it. It’s unlikely (but not impossible) LA Buildings Regs would tip off the planning dept or you could use a private Building Regs company who wouldn’t. Once a ‘development’ has been in place for four years it is immune from Enforcement Action (unless it relates to a Listed Building). If the Council did get wind of it they have to decide whether it’s ‘expedient’ to take an action against you but they would almost certainly ask you to apply for planning permission retrospectively. Depending on location, your neighbours and potential impact, I’d be tempted to do .2

    Premier Icon canna
    Free Member

    We have a thatched house which is grade two listed are chimney was below the required height of building regs we just did it as the listing lady’s is a total bitch but that’s another story , it now meets are insurance companies requirements and building regs at the end of the day I don’t think you will get turned down . Make sure you match the bricks well .

    Premier Icon Yak
    Full Member

    There’s clearly a few in the village with a similar mod

    Pop round and have a chat. Find out who the recommended local architects, builders, stonemasons etc are. Maybe you need further works done sometime later? You could include it all in one planning application.

    Premier Icon RichPenny
    Free Member

    Cheers all. Planning Officer seems really prompt, is suggesting a pre application advice service with the council. Might seem overkill but could save money by steering me in the best direction. For me, Option 2 isn’t that appealing – I’m new to the village and it’s a special little place. Not that I foresee objections, but I would have thought it best to engage with the process correctly. As said upthread, it’s a pretty inconsequential change so I guess the mindset was it’ll be permitted development.

    Premier Icon Vader
    Free Member

    RichP for info I have also used a pre-application advice service, think it was £100. It was for work I was convinced required permission but the response was it didn’t, and the money was refunded.

    Premier Icon twinw4ll
    Free Member

    Sharkbait, that’s why you go on the Poujoulat web site and learn about how they supply materials that disguise it, otherwise great observation.

    Premier Icon hamishthecat
    Full Member

    Must admit I’d probably just do it too although now the planning officer is aware he’ll probably look up the next time he’s driving past. Even so he probably wouldn’t say anything anyone unless someone objected. After 4 years of no council action it would be immune from enforcement. (Unlike similar work to a listed building, where there is no limit period to enforcement).

    Ref BR I think the requirement for chimney height above a thatched ridge is 1.83m. Out of interest do you mind if I ask who your insurer is OP? NFU? Always looking for an alternative…

    If the house has ever had planning applications made on it before it’s worth checking the LPA planning website as you can download any plans and trace them if there are elevations…

    By the way, you lose certain PD rights in an AONB and I suspect strictly speaking you need express PP.

    Premier Icon Poopscoop
    Full Member

    I love the idea of drawing it up myself, but I think a montage of “Stickman pointing at Chimney”, “Stickman holding arms 1M apart”, “Stickman holding arms “1.8M apart” might not do the trick. Any surveyors on the forum willing to give it a go?

    You’re welcome.

    Premier Icon mattyfez
    Free Member

    Do it

    https://api.time.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/evil-kermit-the-frog-meme-dark-side.jpg

    Premier Icon RichPenny
    Free Member

    Job jobbed.

    Richpenny,

    It seems I’m relatively local to you, and as a building surveyor I could probably either help with some drawings, or at least guide you through the planning portal (1000 questions asking about what you’re not planning to do, and a couple of sections relevant to what you do need to do)…

    In my day job I’m usually dealing with the aftermath of people in thatched cottages using failed & inadequate chimneys 😉

    Send me a PM & I’ll try and help.

    Premier Icon RichPenny
    Free Member

    Cheers Marin, much appreciated, will PM you tomorrow 👍

    I definitively do not want to be in the aftermath of a failed chimney! Just glad the sweep had a look behind the plate really, otherwise I could be using it now.

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