Planning experts?

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  • Planning experts?
  • trail_rat
    Member

    ultimately what that means is itll be bleeding cold in your extension – a giant heatsink and what you really want to do instead of going into the attic is bring the 4th bed up to building regs.

    clubber
    Member

    Well, yes possibly. I should add that the single skin is insulated (eg not just block) as is the attic.

    creamegg
    Member

    IMO you would need to apply for planning for any new extensions as the original house has already been extended. Permittable development only applies when the original house has not been extended.

    Various options available to make the existing extension meet b regs.

    edit.. I can’t see why planning won’t be granted for future extensions / attic conversions as long as it’s designed properly.

    clubber
    Member

    Thanks for that.

    So, what can you do to get b reg approval for a single skin wall? Is it a case of meeting the insulation requirements or…?

    creamegg
    Member

    whats the wall construction and thickness?

    clubber
    Member

    According to the docs supplied for the certificate:

    Nominal 25mm render, 125mm concrete block, 25x50mm battens with 25mm polystyrene boards between, 15mm plasterboard and skim.

    clubber
    Member

    This will be easier.

    Just noticed that the study external wall has a cavity of sorts.

    trail_rat
    Member

    irrespective of your insulation that extension will be a major heatsink on your house.

    whole thing is seriously poorly insulated – footflaps shed has a better u value.

    25mm and a 25mm render with minimal airgaps.

    id also be looking at the quality of the electrics and such like after my experiances with a seemingly all qualified and signed off job. If they have cut corners building the fabric – where else did they do it .

    clubber
    Member

    I’m looking at buying a house that had an extension done some time ago (before the current owners – some time between 1985 and 2001 as far as I can work out) which wasn’t done to regs or approved since it wasn’t mean to include a habitable room, only garage and stores and as such, the house should not have been sold to the current owners as a 4 bed, but rather as 3 bed.

    The extension is a dining room, study and garage on the ground floor and an attic room on the first floor.

    The current owners found this out around 2007 and have now correctly marketed it as a 3 bed, with loft room.

    They have also successfully gained a “Certificate of lawful development” from the council, which as I understand it, means that there will never be a demand from the council to take down the unapproved rooms/extension.

    Obviously I’ll be going through this all with solicitors but at this stage, I just want a broad understanding of what this means. Googling has largely just added confusion…

    I’ve been told by the estate agent that because the ground floor extension was build single skin, it doesn’t meet building regs and therefore they couldn’t get approval to offically count the 4th bedroom as such. I’m not overly concerned with that as such, but for example, if at a later date, I wanted to add a conservatory or attic conversion (to the original roof) within permitted development, would that be possible or would I need planning as if so, would it be likely to be approved?

    This in in England (since I expect the rules are different across the UK)

    Sorry for the ramble… thanks in advance for any help.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    25mm polystyrene boards

    Is next to nothing…

    footflaps shed has a better u value.

    Yep, 150mm Celotex on the walls!

    ebygomm
    Member

    Don’t forget to consider the insulation to the floor as well

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    Don’t forget to consider the insulation to the floor as well

    Given heat rises, I’d sorry about the roof more than the floor. If it’s only got 25mm polystyrene, it will be as warm as a Gazebo…

    trail_rat
    Member

    only caveat to that is – warm to touch on the feet makes the room feel warmer – i have 2 room floors in my downstairs that are insulated and the rest arnt – and you feel the difference when you step from one to the other.

    clubber
    Member

    Thanks guys. So, does anyone know roughly what u figure that the existing design would provide and how far off what would be deemed ‘acceptable’ that is?

    Premier Icon stimpy
    Subscriber

    I might be able to help.

    Or a local planning consultant can.

    core
    Member

    Current ‘U’ Value for an external wall is 0.28 W/m²K

    Your construction isn’t that bad in terms of weather tightness, the render is providing waterproofing (but you should keep on top of the paint), and hopefully there’s a DPC.

    If you were to remove the plasterboard & polystyrene, you could then pack the battens out (or replace them) fill the batten space with Kingspan (or similar PUR insulation board) (50-75mm), then 25mm over the face & plasterboard, you’d at least be coming at a decent ‘U’ Value.

    Agree with the comment re: electrics, have a periodic inspection caried out as a minimum.

    DenDennis
    Member

    isnt it the case that if something has been built and used for 5 years+ it gets deemed to have been consented anyway?

    Unless the LA had put an enforcement order on, couldnt the previous owners have kept schtum..?
    that doesnt help I know..

    and a cold floor would be a nightmare IMO- I had one in a house i rented as the conservatory had been ‘brought in’ to the kitchen and it made the whole area freezing.

    clubber
    Member

    Thanks core – so basically a complete strip of plasterboard along the external walls and then redo but with more insulation but nothing too drastic – eg not structural.

    So, if I was doing the external wall along the breakfast room (would the end one that’s “drylined to square off” need doing?) and the study one and then maybe the garage (just with kingspan inside it, could anyone provide a very rom figure for that? nearest thousand ish would be close enough.

    clubber
    Member

    Den – yes, that was the basis for the certificate being agreed – I think it’s 4 years though. They could have kept quiet I guess.

    Regarding the floor, I should be able to get an idea on that as there’s cellar underneath it so I should be able to see if there’s any insulation under.

    pjm84
    Member

    It wouldn’t be to current standards it would be an retrospective application. Pre 85 the u value was 1.0 post 85 it dropped to 0.6 and has been dropping every since. Spec will depends on block but I suspect it’s around the 1 mark or slightly better.

    ebygomm
    Member

    isnt it the case that if something has been built and used for 5 years+ it gets deemed to have been consented anyway?

    Unless the LA had put an enforcement order on, couldnt the previous owners have kept schtum..?
    that doesnt help I know..

    The planning isn’t an issue as a certificate of lawfulness has been obtained. The lack of building regs is an issue, not in terms of the council taking any action as it’s out of time for that, but in terms of the quality of the work.

    clubber
    Member

    The documentation says that planning permission (but not for what was actually built) was granted after 1985 so I’d be shooting for .6 by the sounds of it unless it changed before 2001.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    If you were to remove the plasterboard & polystyrene, you could then pack the battens out (or replace them) fill the batten space with Kingspan (or similar PUR insulation board) (50-75mm), then 25mm over the face & plasterboard, you’d at least be coming at a decent ‘U’ Value.

    Or just install PB backed Celotex (or kingspan) to the battens, or direct to the wall. Then skim over it.

    clubber
    Member

    Right, ok, but same effect. Thanks.

    trail_rat
    Member

    although less thermal bridging with footflaps method – continual insulation. not a fan of dotting and dabbing to the wall- would stick your 50mm board onto 25mm battons my self.

    fair bit of work involved tbh i wouldnt even like to hazzard a guess at the time involved in redoing an existing room – rememeber all the electric cables to sockets and switches will likely be too short now by the time you pull the facing out another 50mm + and extendcing frames round doors and windows as your windows and doors will now be recessed. all your skirtings and finishings will need recut.

    as i said before though it is worth doing if you intend to use it as otherwise itll just be a heatsink on your house.

    wrecker
    Member

    It has to meet the regs of the time of construction, not current regs.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    It has to meet the regs of the time of construction, not current regs.

    Not that anyone enforces it as shown by the fact it exists in it’s current state.

    If it was my house, I’d insulate as well as I could just to save on heating bills rather than worry about what the regs were at the time. No one is going to come and inspect it (unless you pay them to).

    trail_rat
    Member

    “If it was my house, I’d insulate as well as I could just to save on heating bills rather than worry about what the regs were at the time. No one is going to come and inspect it (unless you pay them to). “

    this.

    if your planning to try and get retrospective permission on the building to sell it on with an extra bedroom – be prepared to raze the extension to the floor and restart. I fairly certain once you start digging youll find horrors.

    clubber
    Member

    I’m not fussed about getting the extra bedroom/building regs approval – the price we’re paying would reflect the lack thereof so unless it was something simple (which it clearly isn’t) then we wouldn’t be worried about eventually selling as a 3 bed.

    The actual experience of living there is what I really care about and it sounds like we might be wanting to do some work to improve that.

    You haven’t said what the rest of the house is like – that extension is better insulated than most of the housing stock in the UK. By all accounts the first 25mm of insulation makes the biggest difference to the heat loss.

    Upgrading the attic insulation will make the greatest difference. If you reinsulate the walls you’ll need to redo the electrics BUT if it all runs behind the plasterboard anyway and you take that down it won’t be a terrible job.

    Personally, I reckon it will be fine to live in but start saving it up to get it done properly. My main worry, in common with others, is where else they’ve cut corners.

    clubber
    Member

    It’s a 40s/50s house so it probably isn’t brilliantly insulated as you say.

    I’m told that the current owners added insulation but I don’t know if that is what the drawing represents or not. I’m waiting to get that info.

    Premier Icon stimpy
    Subscriber

    You are confusing planning issues with building regulations.

    They are different things.

    Just because you have one, doesn’t mean you have the other.

    And previous extensions will limit your ability to extend/enlarge in the future.

    Try my clicky linky (which I posted in my reply above for you). I know what I’m talking about.

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