Evening all,

Considering purchasing one of the bikes in title, I nipped in to see the Kaffenback today as I was in the area with work and really liked the look of the bike and paint on the blue one. I originally went to see the Carbon CX bike but there you go!

I’m also looking at the Escapade and just toiling as to whether or not the Cotic is “worth” the extra cash? I’m probably looking to buy the frame and build it up myself. I’d imagine the Cotic uses better quality steel? Anybody have any real world experiences with either or both? Any ideas of weights for frames?

Lastly… What is the difference between the Escapade and Roadrat?

Thanks.

I’ve got a Roadrat and I’m not entirely sure what the difference with the Escapade is. I’ve got mine in road bike configuration with drop bars, BB7 brakes and Tiagra. It rides great. I’m struggling to dial out some front brake judder/vibration, but apart from that it’s as nice a ride as my Defy Carbon. As fast too, well over my 10 mike commute at least.

I don’t think you can go far wrong with any of those three bikes. I’d suggest to go for the one you can get the best deal on and the one you simply prefer the aesthetics of. There is no wrong choice there.

I’ve got a road rat which has been a variety of things and it’s worked very well. I have heard that it’s a bit flexy for big / powerful lads but don’t know if that applies to you.

Edit – don’t know if it’s a deal breaker but the RR has masses more clearance than a Kaffenbach

Thanks for the input. Im a Cotic fan being the previous owner of a few Souls. Money talks but I WANT the Cotic and like the Kaffenback. I’ll go ogle the pics some more. Gloss Gunmetal is the colour of choice for the Cotic.

I’m no frame breaker, I’m just a wee lad, only 5ft 5 in my Cubans! I have read the Kaffenback is a bit nippy for clearance, I don’t intend to take it mud plugging mind u but would be nice to have the clearance if it got a bit boggy when nipping to Sainsburys.. ; )

I miss my Roadrat. It’s a lovely bike to ride.

I got rid of it because, with the horizontal dropouts it was hard to get proper mudguards on it for year-round commuting and with flat bars it was a bit of a bugger up steep hills.
The flex made it a really springy, comfy ride. The flex wasn’t noticeable when riding, but if you go out for a long road ride on a full carbon bike wearing full carbon-soled shoes and you get quickly changed into commuting gear and jump on your Roadrat, you might find yourself asking where all your power has gone 🙂

No carbon road bike here mate, I prefer to ponder things as I cycle as opposed to setting speed records. It’s more of a pass time these days than a way of life. I used to go out and push myself harder every ride and it became a chore to cycle which in turn led me to go right off it. I just want a nice bike I can take out for a spin on the good days.

Well I like pottering on my Kaff. I’m currently running 28mm Durano Plus tyres on it (although not in this photo taken last year when I just built it).

I have had 2 Kaffs, both the dog turd colour. Fine bikes. Had a Cotic x for 4 1/2 years. Also good but its a cluncker. As far as I can see all of the bikes sold with some fancy individual named steel are much the same. Gas pipe ! The x wasn’t worth twice the price of the Kaff. Buy the shape and clearance you want, the steel won’t be worth worrying about. My x weighs more than my 531 Raleigh I bought in 1983, steel forks and all.

The frame clearance on the RR is handy. I’ve got some Sammy Slicks on mine at the mo, so gone a bit Gnarmac with it. Plenty of clearance for those tyres and mudguards. The Horizontal dropouts are a pain, and mine is an early one with the mech hangar on the chain tug, so I dread the time I get a roadside rear puncture. Other than that it’s a lovely thing, though mine is Espresso brown (very close to shit Brown!) but I’m not bothered and makes it less desirable for potential thieves.

The flex isn’t an issue, sure if I get out the saddle, lay the bike on its side and give it some I can notice some lateral flex, but that’s not my riding style and it seems perfectly stiff vertically.

The flex is an issue if you ever want to load the bike with luggage, which the rr on paper is supposed to be able to do … but cant.

I’ve owned an rr and a pompetamine(same as kaffenback) and the pomp was better in every way. Im not big or powerful and i loved my cotic soul but not my roadrat as the latter was like riding a wet noodle.

I’d go PX; cheaper and the geo looks a bit more road friendly.

Thanks for the input people. Having slept on it the Planet X is a good bit cheaper and looks more useable for what I want. Cash is king and all that!

Followed this thread with interest as the Escapade and Kaffenback are two bikes of the ilk I quite fancy to replace my Curtis which I just don’t use.

The Kaffenback is on sale at the minute for £750 which seems excellent given the spec (similar’ish price to a singlespeed Escapade). Will be high on my list when I sell my Curtis…

Is the RR a full on touring bike? I didn’t think it was. I thought it was more of an urban/commute bike. So paniers for taking your work clothes and laptop to work with, but not necessarily for loading up with tents and all the heavy paraphanalia you’d need for a full on touring bike. If that is the case then clearly the RR will fall short. It’s a multipurpose lightweight ‘sporty’ urban machine. I don’t even think it would make a particularly good dedicated CX bike.

Haven’t they stiffened up the roadrat now anyway?

I’ve got a Roadrat and I’m not entirely sure what the difference with the Escapade is. I’ve got mine in road bike configuration with drop bars, BB7 brakes and Tiagra.

They don’t do the drop-bar version of the roadrat anymore.

“What is the difference between the Escapade and Roadrat?”

Top tube length! To adjust for flat bars (roadrat) or drop bars (Escapade) and not having to go to the exteme stem lengths to get reach.
Back in the day when it was just the Roadrat, it came in long or short TT lengths depending on what set up flat/drop bars you planning on running

I had a Kaff with the swop dropouts and recently changed it for an Escapade. The Escapade feels so much more compliant and is heaps more comfortable to ride. I like that its slightly higher on the front end than the Kaff which has made a huge difference to my lower back problems. I use it for general communting and longer fitness rides It does get loaded up fairly heavily when I have lots of stuff to take to work and I dont notice and substantial flex. I run 37mm Vittoria Voyager Hypers and it still has clearance for more.

My RR came in flat bar trim, but I put drop bars on but with a shortish stem, so the TT length thing explains it. Still rides great though.

Must be doing something wrong. Road rat with horizontal dropouts on and full length sks bluemels. Wheel slides out without removing mudguard…..

Its flexy when loaded worth 60lb of shopping- felt like it would snap in half.

The daily commute with my lunch/trews/shirt/shoes in is fine super comfy bike !

Had a Roadrat, enjoyed the springy feel till I tried touring on it. Bought a Kaff and have done more miles on it than any other inc ti, 853 and plastic.

what are the bars on that?

Haven’t they stiffened up the roadrat now anyway?

Larger diameter downtube, and an Ovalform toptube… linky

what are the bars on that?

Selcof KP50 Bull Horn

I have a Kaff and have a very love/hate relationship with it. It was bought as a winter road bike, fitted with guards and 28mm tyres and it worked perfectly in that function. But. But it is/was so dull to ride, no spring, no life in it, just plain uninspiring. I suspect this is down to the weight of the frame (not light) and more likely the wheels (mine are the standard On-One Reetard wheels), I should likely buy new wheels but I’m reluctant to spend money on I bike I don’t really like riding. It’s now got to the point where I prefer to ride my old summer bike (23mm tyres, no guards) all winter.

However, I recently took the guards off the Kaff, put on some 33mm CX tyres and starting riding it along tow paths and gravel roads and suddenly it makes sense, I like riding it again and I feel like I’ve found what it’s meant for.

So, to conclude, if you’re buying it as a all weather road bike, don’t, it’s dull, boring and not fun to ride. But if you’re buying it as a gnarmac/gravel bike then do so, this is where I’ve found mine come to life.