Can I just check – those people who are suggesting he is a special case because he went to war (like most men his age), does that mean you’re not so bothered about a woman the same age in the same situation?

I have no idea if this guy was / is a hero or not, just becuase he was called up in WW2 does not mean he did anything “Heroic”. Its another of the modern media’s over-used and devalued terms. He may have done all sorts of brave and noble things, he may not, I have no idea.

I also have no idea what this guys care needs are. My nan was amazingly independant and was able to stay in her own home for a long time, but there came a point when it couldn’t carry on.

Why does everything have to be so clear cut? Life isn’t like that.

Can I just check – those people who are suggesting he is a special case because he went to war (like most men his age), does that mean you’re not so bothered about a woman the same age in the same situation?

Er, my Nan and her sister went to war (nurses on Gibraltar, one was decorated for her service).

Not sure what point you are making, that women didn’t contribute to WW2? Great things done at home by women (and men) in places like Bletchley too.

Your idea that the only people regarded as heroes from WW2 were combatants is not widely shared. I’m ex-army and even I don’t take that view.

It’s not my idea.

That was his point.

Apportioning care because somebody is labelled a war hero is a bad way of deciding if it is merited or not. Many people (especially of that generation) made many sacrifices and made great contributions, they should be cared for because they need care, not because of some symbolic label attached to their contribution.

The petition should be about increasing care provisions for all, his case could highlight the kind of people who we are failing, and the solution is to improve the system for everyone.

nickc – Member

sad situation for all concerned. But in all honesty “it would remind me of being a prisoner of war”…Is a bit daft.

Must have been a pretty unusual POW camp. Everyone spoke tagalog instead of german and they had tai chi after lunch.

Very sympathetic but pragmatically, is his home the best place? My grandma would have loved to stay in her house but she needed constant care and emergency support, it could have been provided at gigantic cost but that’s just not realistic. War veteran or not. The issue isn’t “he should be cared for”- nobody’s denying him care. It’s just a question of reasonableness.

It is wrong to force him to go to the care home if he does not want to.

DezB – Member
“Nobody remembers the heroes who didn’t pick up a gun.”

Like Winston Churchill you mean?

He was at the pointy end of some very nasty stuff in his military career.

“Apportioning care because somebody is labelled a war hero is a bad way of deciding if it is merited or not. “

Yeah but that’s the complete opposite of what is happening. He isn’t getting special treatment despite of his “hero” status. I would be in favour of giving him special treatment (After the family have exhausted their options).

It doesn’t mean I favour a two tiered system, which of course we have anyway with unlimited private healthcare for those who can afford it.

I don’t see the harm of every now and again giving someone a leg up in recognition of contribution or sacrifice. Most people don’t, except communists, totalitarians and some folks on the interwebz.

It doesn’t mean I favour a two tiered system, which of course we have anyway with unlimited private healthcare for those who can afford it.

Yes it does. You can’t simultaneously advocate giving some people preferential care and say that you’re not in favour of treating some people preferentially.

edit: well you can, it’s just incoherent.

It isn’t what is happening, it is what is being asked for.

It doesn’t mean I favour a two tiered system,

I don’t see the harm of every now and again giving someone a leg up in recognition of contribution or sacrifice

???

Which brings me back to

Who should decide this differential worthiness, the government, you, me or the Sun?

Would Alan Turing have been worthy? would Colin Parry? how exactly do we classify who is worthy and who isn’t. If we make special cases then we by definition are excluding others from the same care.

Most people don’t, except communists, totalitarians and some folks on the interwebz.

…and those capable of coherent rational thought.

Also quite arrogant of you to insult people who don’t agree with you.

I’d give the guy a break, you wouldn’t. I often give to charities too and have the temerity to decide which I think is most worthy, rather than dividing the donation equally between all charities.

I must be really arrogant / insane. I will seek help, thanks for pointing it out. God bless the internet.

I’d give the guy a break, you wouldn’t.

Nope, I’d treat him the same as everyone else, no better and no worse.

I often give to charities too and have the temerity to decide which I think is most worthy, rather than dividing the donation equally between all charities.

I must be really arrogant / insane. I will seek help, thanks for pointing it out. God bless the internet.

The arrogant comment was in reference to the way that you insulted people who didn’t agree with you by calling them “…communists, totalitarians…” unless of course you meant those terms as a compliment! I’d have expected anyone with a reasonble degree of intelligence to be able to tell the difference between a calling a single act arrogant and calling a person arrogant in general. Apparently I was wrong in that regard!

I would give the guy a break too, by supporting a system that provides the care needed according to the care needed, not by making making special cases for some, and denying it to others. If that that makes me a totalitarian communist, I will wear that label with pride.

Let me put it another way, should the attack on Alan Barnes have been treated as a lesser crime than if he had served in the forces. Should the police prioritise crimes against ex servicemen?

GF – your the poorest troll I’ve read today. You need to work on your pedantry. F-.

MSP – I know, I get it. You don’t agree with making any special cases for “emotional” reasons. I just don’t agree with you. I doubt my expressing this opinion will bring about the collapse of the NHS or civilization as we know it.

Newsflash – “Ex-squaddy thinks WW2 vet should be given a break with his care funding”. Wow. No way.

Hey you are the one that thinks people should be treated differently based on their background, not me. As for a troll, no just a different opinion to yours and a desire for equality for all.

MSP – I know, I get it. You don’t agree with making any special cases for “emotional” reasons. I just don’t agree with you. I doubt my expressing this opinion will bring about the collapse of the NHS or civilization as we know it.

Expressing you opinion will clearly break nothing, but implementing it would. Apportioning “care” for any arbitrary reason other than the need for care, and the financial ability to provide that care for everyone equally, would clearly break the core tenant of its existence.

Expressing you opinion will clearly break nothing, but implementing it would.

Personally I love the idea of some from the council apportioning my level of healthcare based on how worthy they consider me. I think that there is absolutely no way in which that could ever have any negative consequences.

I think your eyes are too close together, next case please 😉

Surprised that most think it’s the state that should provide for people in thier old age and that their family has no role to play financially or with care? It’s irelevent what thier background was.

Pawsy_Bear – Member

Surprised that most think it’s the state that should provide for people in thier old age

I think the state should. And that’s exactly what they’re offering to do. But the state shouldn’t be obliged to fork out for someone to get a much more expensive service due to their personal preference, especially when they could pay for it themselves.

I spent a wee while in hospital getting my leg unbroken. THe state paid the tab; seems reasonable. If I’d insisted on having the surgery in my garage, the state would have told me to bugger off, regardless of how many STW quote wars I’m a veteran of.

The only person who seems to arguing that is accusing people who don’t agree with him and think otherwise of being communists. Which is odd.

Surprised that most think it’s the state that should provide for people in thier old age and that their family has no role to play financially or with care? It’s irelevent what thier background was.

Well you would hope that family’s who can afford to look after their aged relatives would do so. But life isn’t always that simple. What if our aged war veteran had rich kids who couldn’t give a flying ****. I wouldn’t want to see him die on a cold winter street just because his kids are tossers.

Weird thread. I like the term ‘quote wars’ though.

Well you would hope that family’s who can afford to look after their aged relatives would do so

Experience tells me that this is the last thing that people want to do.

Weird thread

Innit.

I hope him and his family can come to some agreement with the local council.

regardless of how many STW quote wars I’m a veteran of.

WIN – nw, when your time comes you qualify for additional cash benefits to have 24 hour 5* care wherever you want

Ah, but are you a hero or a villain? History is written by the victors. You didn’t think it was unimportant whether or not you win on STW did you?

He wants to live in his own home, not in a profit making home for some greedy home owner, money is found every week to fund prisoners in prison for menial crimes to full blown evil murderers, jsut perhaps some of that cash should be swopped and some prisoners released on tag or community service.

Good idea. We could start with anybody who’s been unfairly locked up for killing a cyclist with a car.

There really are some morally bankrupt people on this site.

Apportioning “care” for any arbitrary reason other than the need for care, and the financial ability to provide that care for everyone equally, would clearly break the core tenant of its existence.

Yeah, although it makes a good straw man I wasn’t advocating scrapping the system of care where it’s needed. Just using discretion in cases where there is a strong compassionate case to do so. I dunno, I’m probably one of those blokes in china who doesn’t snitch on his neighbours wife when she’s looking a bit preggers. Rules are great and all but they all needed breaking sometimes.

Or, in other words, we wouldn’t have a welfare state or health system if the likes of him hadn’t won the war so it feels wrong to deprive him on it’s benefits.

Or, maybe I’m just a big softy and wish I was has hard nosed as y’all.

peakyblinder – Member

Or, in other words, we wouldn’t have a welfare state or health system if the likes of him hadn’t won the war so it feels wrong to deprive him on it’s benefits.

Nobody wants to deprive him of the benefits of the welfare state though. He’s been offered that, he just doesn’t want it.

You’re right, nobody is suggesting apportioning care for any reason other than the need for care.

Just using discretion in cases where there is a strong compassionate case to do so.

😆

Actually I can’t resist this one either:

What, all of them?

You’ve missed the early tedious exchanges NW. To round up, I am actually arguing his family should be forgoing their inheritance to pay for this anyway. I think the deal he has been offered is totally fair. I just happened to mention if the family had spent all the cash and there was no options left THEN I would not object to him getting a break.

It was at this point that STW smelled blood…

Haven’t missed that at all but you’re still saying things like “depriving him of his benefits” which just seems to be ignoring the point- the state is providing for him, he’s just rejecting what’s offered.

I assumed we were discussing the hypothetical point where the family have run out of resources – otherwise what beef? Up to that point I don’t see we disagree.

When it comes to care, here’s an interesting thought exercise…

‘Everybody’ (well, not everybody…) expects free care for the elderly even if they have the means to pay for it , but bar a few hours free care, we don’t expect the same for the very young (childminders, pre school etc).
If you’re below a financial threshold it’s state funded in either sense..
Is important to differentiate social care with medical needs too.

DrP