• This topic has 35 replies, 23 voices, and was last updated 1 month ago by irc.
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  • Petition for A82 Loch Lomond Upgrade
  • irc
    Full Member

    Transport Scotland are planning to upgrade the A82 along Loch Lomond south of Ardlui. They are choosing a lochside route. This petition us for a higher level alternate.
    Advantages being easier build without hundreds of road closures. Old road left as high quality cycle route. Tarbet and Ardlui bypassed by HGVs.

    https://petitions.parliament.scot/petitions/PE1967

    slowoldman
    Full Member

    Have any detailed proposals been put forward for a high level route?

    phil5556
    Full Member

    There’s some more detail here

    A82 Tarbet to Invernarnan upgrade project – alternative proposals

    thegeneralist
    Full Member

    This petition us for a higher level alternate.

    Weird idea. Traffic goes one way for a bit and then the other way?

    Will be like the old days of Pulpit Rock traffic lights 🙂

    Greybeard
    Full Member

    Traffic goes one way for a bit and then the other way?

    You joke, but they could end up building a new Northbound single carriageway up the hill, and keep the existing road as Southbound, a bit like was done at the side of Bassenthwaite.

    It looks worth considering seriously. First question is whether the high level route has been looked at by civil engineers? It will need substantially more width (20 – 25m?) than the railway, and the cross slope looks about 1:3, so that’s a 5-6m cutting and perhaps 2-3m built up on the downhill side, if the geology is suitable. Wil it be condemned as a scar on the hillside? The widening South of Tarbet was criticised for that, although now the trees have grown up it’s not too bad.

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    thegeneralist
    Full Member

    The rationale given for the high-level route is nothing short of bullshit.

    In one breath they say they don’t want a low level route as it will be visually and aurally intrusive.

    In the next breath they say that an elevated road will be an iconic drive experience which will give people t’ awsumms….. as they plough through/ above the gorgeous countryside giving people elsewhere a grandstand view and sound of the new elevated BFO Road.

    robertajobb
    Full Member

    British half arsed planning in action

    irc
    Full Member

    Hmmm. Apart from the Inversnaid hotel and the walkers on the west highland way there is nobody to be affected by the visual impact of a high level route.

    Given how long it took to do the Pulpit Rock section (25 years?) I think being able to build a new road without affecting the existing road is a major benefit.

    It would also mean the shore south of Ardlui could be enjoyed without constant traffic 20 yards away.

    Win win IMO.

    sajama55
    Free Member

    They should consult a Spanish company to sort out the A82 ,they have the expertise. I am sure that the bridges between loch tulla and Kingshouse were built in the thirties and it’s the best section of the 82.

    greatbeardedone
    Free Member

    I though that with the sheer density of traffic, that tunnelling is the way to go.

    OR, sounds a bit sci-fi: with the advances in graphene technology, would it be possible to suspend the road over Loch Lomond itself?
    A bunch of islands connected by prefabricated graphene sections.

    Realistically, Loch Lomond would not be unduly affected if some kind of railway (or cable-car) reached up to Balmaha.
    Something to put the village back in easy reach of the city-dwellers.
    No having to hang around for buses.

    Charity fears over loss of hotels in Loch Lomond and The Trossachs https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-63047718

    mattsccm
    Free Member

    You must be joking. Far better to fix the rail system. We should be hampering road development not enhancing it.

    FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    As above why are people actively encouraging road building ?

    All it does is increase traffic volume, pollution, visitors etc etc.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Im guessing those of you saying no to any redevelopment of the road don’t know this road.

    Im against new road building in general but however this is one of very few routes in the highlands and this section is both dangerous and a major bottleneck. It needs a new road done properly

    highlandman
    Free Member

    I think there’s something not quite right about this; the petition has been organised by a ‘local pressure group’, which isn’t always a good sign. Unfortunately there’s politics behind it, rather than a clear perspective on what’s the best solution for dealing with the multiple and sometimes conflicting problems.
    I don’t have the answers and certainly don’t know enough about geology, road building, tourism nor traffic management to be able to comment on the opposing plans.

    The-Beard
    Full Member

    Im against new road building in general but however this is one of very few routes in the highlands and this section is both dangerous and a major bottleneck. It needs a new road done properly

    100% this.  In the summer with the tourist traffic it can feel almost impassable at times.  Meeting a coach coming the other way can be an interesting experience!  I’ve also spent many an hour in long queues because someone has parked it into the wall and everyone gets caught up in the tailback.  I think going over the hill is a non-starter.  More than doubles the land take, impact and associated costs and that’s before you look at deer fencing it, SUDS and other bits and pieces.  If the native woodland is their main concern they should look at taking funds from the road project to protect and enhance the woodland and try to return it to a favourable condition, perhaps even look at where it could be expanded.

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    It needs a new road done properly

    Which pretty much guarantees it won’t be done properly at all, it’ll be yet another botched, half-arsed, lowest-possible-cost job which causes years of disruption followed by being little better than what is there now. 🙁

    sajama55
    Free Member

    Don’t think the road building industry is in favour of tunneling.The Rest is closed again , a tunnel or gallery would have fixed the weather related problems years ago but its been a gravy train for some.

    intheborders
    Free Member

    Im guessing those of you saying no to any redevelopment of the road don’t know this road.

    +1

    The ‘high-level’ route looks a decent approach to solving the issue.

    Anyone against sorting it ‘properly’ has obviously either never driven along it or doesn’t have a scooby of the road network around there. Anyone uncertain, try leaving Glasgow going north and don’t go along the A82 (Loch Lomond).

    Greybeard
    Full Member

    Apart from the Inversnaid hotel and the walkers on the west highland way there is nobody to be affected by the visual impact of a high level route.

    apart from people sailing, paddling or taking tourist boats on the loch

    The Rest is closed again , a tunnel or gallery would have fixed the weather related problems years ago

    Tunnelling through unstable rock is not easy

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    Wot TJ said.

    pistola
    Free Member

    TJ is spot on.

    I frequently drive the road and it’s a disgrace that this section of main western arterial route north from Glasgow is still in its current condition. The amount of times I’ve been diverted because of accidents (often fatal) on the Tarbet to Inverarnan section is depressing.

    As far as new route corridors go, there has been a full detailed study undertaken over several years by experts to come up with the preferred new route choice:

    https://www.transport.gov.scot/projects/a82-tarbet-to-inverarnan/project-details/#52885

    mashr
    Full Member

    apart from people sailing, paddling or taking tourist boats on the loch

    Arguably still better than having the road right at the Loch as it is now, and I would also think that the noise pollution making it onto the water would be far less

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    Plus obvious liquid pollution.

    phil5556
    Full Member

    On the face of it the high road route would be a good solution, looks like it’s already been ruled out though.

    I assume what we’re going to get is months (years!) of disruption whilst they build a few Pulpit rock type sections at the narrowest parts and leave the rest as it is?

    downshep
    Full Member

    I used to patrol this road and dealt with a disproportionate number of incidents there. The section between Tarbet and Ardlui is a Trunk Road in name only and more closely resembles a quiet B road, despite the volume of traffic. Generally it’s LGVs, coaches and campervans getting jammed up on the twisties but it also catches tourists out (including those driving LHD foreign vehicles) as they’ve just driven on decent roads for hours / days and don’t expect such tight bends or the narrow bridges at Ardvorlich. Locals and bikers go for overtakes that just aren’t on, or if they are on, the tourists don’t expect to be overtaken. Drink driving is commonplace at night as there’s a perception of no taxis or polis. Drivers are caught out by standing floodwater and loose gravel washed onto bends after downpours. Plenty have crashed, some fatally, because of one or more of the above factors. Every time we had to close the road, the ensuing diversions via the A83 or A85 caused major disruption and delay, a total ballache.

    Upgrading might design out many of these problems but it’s difficult to resolve as the slopes above are solid rock at the tightest spots and the loch shore drops steeply away. Its 600ft deep in places, which is why Pulpit Rock took 40 years, buckets of cash and clever engineering to sort out. Blasting / tunneling a high route puts the West Highland railway line at risk. If they can’t find the money to properly sort the A83 at the RABT, then fixing this bit of the A82 will be a long way off. A safer and less disruptive alternative would be a new road through Glen Loin to Inveruglas, or even from Butterbridge to Glen Falloch but the financial and environmental cost would be significant.

    J-R
    Full Member

    “this section is both dangerous and a major bottleneck. It needs a new road and done properly” @tjagain whilst I sympathise with your comments here, they are just as valid for the long awaited and much needed A303 improvements near Stonehenge, which you opposed.

    mashr
    Full Member

    The issues with the A82 are in no way compatible with the A303 (imo of course). As mentioned above, the section in question is little more than a B road, but with traffic using it as a trunk road. Not saying the A303 doesn’t have issues, they are just very different to those discussed here

    greatbeardedone
    Free Member

    I’d wager that very little of that traffic would need to skirt past Loch Lomond if there was a road tunnel under the campsies.

    Glasgow to Stirling in 20 mins, with the option to swing north, via Callander.

    duckman
    Full Member

    That road is terrifying, I used to have to use it to visit my folks and it was an absolute misery. Anything that makes it safer for locals is a win imo.

    dovebiker
    Full Member

    Traffic problems on the A82 and A83 have implications right across the west – out here on the Isles it’s a major problem with those trying to get to Glasgow and back in a day for medical appointments etc – road closures are ‘local’ news. Any solution needs to be holistic and provide resilience – a high/low route at least means a total blockage is less likely.

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    they are just as valid for the long awaited and much needed A303 improvements near Stonehenge

    No, they’re really not. The A82 is just wide enough for two lorries to pass along that section, the residential road outside my house is wider.

    As far as I know it’s also not an area hoaching with neolithic archaeological sites.

    intheborders
    Free Member

    they are just as valid for the long awaited and much needed A303 improvements near Stonehenge

    I go back to my previous comment:

    “Anyone against sorting it ‘properly’ has obviously either never driven along it or doesn’t have a scooby of the road network around there.”

    irc
    Full Member

    The A82 is wide enough for two HGVs to pass as long as they slow to walking speed in many sections.Often the lane width is less than an HGV counting mirrors.

    The major trunk road between Glasgow and the West Highlands in the 21st century.

    And the A303 near Stonehenge. Obvious traffic volume problems but an aedquate single carriageway road in my non civil engineer opinion.

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    I’d wager that very little of that traffic would need to skirt past Loch Lomond if there was a road tunnel under the campsies.

    Glasgow to Stirling in 20 mins, with the option to swing north, via Callander.

    Road tunnel through unstable rock would be billions of ££ which, while not the end of the world in itself, doesn’t represent good VfM which means that the (flawed) means of measuring road schemes is not going to prefer that option.

    In the next breath they say that an elevated road will be an iconic drive experience which will give people t’ awsumms….. as they plough through/ above the gorgeous countryside giving people elsewhere a grandstand view and sound of the new elevated BFO Road.

    You can make that argument about almost any road – it’s always going to have a negative visual and audible effect so the least you can do is make it look good and there are several cases of “scenic” roads that actually fit quite well into the environment – or at least, as best they can.

    This for example:

    Norway has some nice examples too.

    downshep
    Full Member

    I’d wager that very little of that traffic would need to skirt past Loch Lomond if there was a road tunnel under the campsies.

    Glasgow to Stirling in 20 mins, with the option to swing north, via Callander.

    Not sure if joking?

    A81 or M80 & A84 well placed for Glasgow – (Stirling) – Callander?

    The vast majority of Loch Lomond A82 traffic doesn’t go anywhere near Stirling. Rather, it is a vital artery for west coast communities from Campbeltown up to Skye.

    irc
    Full Member

    Glasgow to Stirling in 20 mins, with the option to swing north, via Callander.

    You can already drive from Glasgow to Stirling in 26 minutes. But it would only be an alternate route north if there was a huge upgrade programme on the roads between Stirling and Crianlarich.

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