Having no kids allows me sufficient disposable income to buy expensive bicycles! 😉

convert – Member
It was sitting right there on the surface – just couldn’t miss it!

You’d almost swear it was intentional wouldn’t you?

No more callous than denying your partner something she (you) really wants, weeninja. If you’re the one responsible for contraception, stop. If he is and won’t stop then hop into bed with any male that you think will produce a healthy offspring and take it from there.

I’m 30, and I don’t want kids. Partner doesn’t either.

Do I like “me time”? Yes.
Am I selfish? No, I don’t think I am. I volunteer. I am kind to my partner, friends and family. I have a rescue dog who is very well looked after. I like to do things for others. So I really don’t think selfishness comes into the decision, contrary to the knee-jerk reaction you get from some people thinking if you don’t have kids, you must be selfish.

I have other considerations such as Crohns disease which might make pregnancy, birth and breastfeeding difficult (medications, and the mechanics of it all) and a genetic tendency could be passed on to my children.

I have no doubt that parenting can be wonderful and fulfilling, but I also know some people with kids who are darn miserable with it. Especially mothers, who tend to be expected to work full time and contribute to the household income, but then also take care of the kids and housework. Men around my age don’t appear in general to want the pressure of being sole breadwinners, but they don’t really want to share the child rearing and clear up the mess either when their partner is also in work. I’m sure there are a few gooduns on here at STW who aren’t like that though 🙂

@grum: thought experiment, if your partner told you tomorrow she was pregnant how would you feel about that? Think about it and process it for a while. (No need to answer)!

(or is this what’s already happened?)! doh me.

I reckon I’d go ‘oh shit’ – be pretty nervous but also quite excited and just get on with it and it would be fine.

Of course, we could forget that the converse is true i.e. question folks’ reasons not to, and some ridicous bollocks gets spouted. I’d probably take a look back through some of your own posts earlier for some ridiculous generalisations. Quite surprising from you.

As for the suitability of posting this thread this week (of all weeks), well, I dunno, it’s the kind of thoughtless thing a self-obsessed, me-time loving, childless person would do.

Goodness knows why we have to justify everything we do on here by insulting the choices of others (of course not everybody has done that). It shows little other than an insecurity about the validity of one’s own decisions.

Oooh someone’s got their knickers in a twist haven’t they. Or are you being ironic, or double-ironic or something? :). I’m interested to know which you think are ridiculous generalisations (other than the ones with smilies attached?

I’m genuinely sorry if this thread has upset anyone – though I doubt there would ever be a good time to post it in relation to ‘the other thread’.

Perhaps not, but you didn’t actually think I was being serious in suggesting all childless couples should kill themselves. Did you?

I thought you were making the usual kind of ‘reductio ad absurdum’ arguments people do on here – maybe cos of the missing smiley.

I reckon I’d go ‘oh shit’ – be pretty nervous but also quite excited and just get on with it and it would be fine.

Which is pretty much how I acted when we found out the missus was expecting our first child…………Acted the same for the second one as well………& the third……………….

Maybe, although just by not having kids they are already doing more for the planet than an eco-conscious family with a couple of kids. See the ‘humans are a plague’ comments from Attenborough etc

Except that’s complete nonsense. For example, we now travel far less and buy far less new stuff than before we had a kid.

Except that’s complete nonsense. For example, we now travel far less and buy far less new stuff than before we had a kid.

Well that’s not really the point. If you have no kids, you are contributing to a reduction in population. If you have one, you are contributing to it but less, if you have to you are only just contributing to it. If you have three, you are contributing to population increase.

It’s not your actual lifestyle right now, it’s you and your kids, and their kids and so on. If you have two kids and neither of them have kids, then at minimum you are extending your footprint on the earth from 80 years to say 120 years.

Except that’s complete nonsense. For example, we now travel far less and buy far less new stuff than before we had a kid.

You really think that counteracts everything your kid will contribute to emissions etc throughout his life? I’m pretty sure there is strong evidence to the contrary. Again, why so defensive/aggressive?

And as molgrips alludes to, isn’t the number one problem facing the environment overpopulation? Oh I forgot I’m not allowed to talk about that unless I put on a hair shirt and live in an eco-commune and/or throw myself in front of a train. 🙂

I think there will be some on here hoping some others will throw themselves in front of trains pretty soon…

And as molgrips alludes to, isn’t the number one problem facing the environment overpopulation?

That’s one of the top problems yes. Another is dangling prepositions.

How could not having kids, or indeed having kids, be considered selfish? Also, if one person in a partnership wants kids and the other doesnt, it wont be a partnership for long unless that disagreement is resolved.

I get woken at 05:00 most mornings with a flurry of activity from the next door bedroom, lights on, bottles dropped, doors swung open western stylee, with my daughter saying “Can i watch nee naw please” i grumble quietly to myself muttering things such as “f—ing kids, f– off back to bed, the tv is going out the windown” – of course i cannot say these things and accept that my life is slowly being stripped apart by the love of my life!!

there’s now a second which although will sleep for an eternity, is slowly destroying the house more than i thought was possible with a child.

bloody kids..

Is it fair to deprive your partner of a child because there’s a population explosion in Asia and latin america, Grum? I think not, go on, give her one.

Doing what’s reasonable to make the planet a pleasant place for future generations includes producing the next generation.

grum – Member
Thanks again folks. Pretty much confirming my thinking.

Case in point: I absolutely love snowboarding – in fresh powder it’s probably my favourite thing in the world to do, I have a cheesily almost spiritual love for being in the high mountains. I get to do it pretty damn rarely as it is – the chances of affording regular ski holidays for the whole family (if we had kids) are very minimal.

Does caring about that make me selfish? I dunno, it sounds bad when I write it down.

It just makes you a bad economist.

I am 40 with an above average number of kids. They have never once stopped us from travelling the way we like. Of course, we have to budget, but instead of staying in hotels, we have either camped or stayed in other places.

As for getting to our destination, the VW T4 we own, coupled with the fact that we don’t drive it for almost anything other than long distance trips, means we are able to get everyone there, and not contribute to the planetary crisis in the meantime.

Glad you got the irony grum. Other than that, no knickers in a twist here. Just failing to understand some of the attitudes of either side.

Remember: If you don’t breed, they will….

😯

interesting how wanting to continue with hobbies is regarded as selfish, i often get accused of this, however as i can no longer afford to snowboard and bu88ger off for a few weeks a year on the bike it’s partly irrelevant.

me what do i think – it’s not selfish, your hobbiess are what make you who you are, you stop them, you are going to change and that’s not good for anyone.

SR how i would love to go boaridng at least once a year with family – budgeting doesn’t even come close.

You really think that counteracts everything your kid will contribute to emissions etc throughout his life? I’m pretty sure there is strong evidence to the contrary. Again, why so defensive/aggressive?

And as molgrips alludes to, isn’t the number one problem facing the environment overpopulation? Oh I forgot I’m not allowed to talk about that unless I put on a hair shirt and live in an eco-commune and/or throw myself in front of a train

Aggressive? No, just bored of poorly-constructed arguments from people who don’t act in accordance with their stated belief.

Population is a problem, yes, but just as important is how that population lives. I can think of plenty of childless friends who lead a higher impact lifestyle than me.

They have never once stopped us from travelling the way we like.

You have to admit though that you are in a fortunate position. Some families can’t afford to travel places even if they do budget.

It just makes you a bad economist.

Or maybe we just don’t earn that much (incidentally because we both chose to do jobs that don’t pay very much but benefit society in other ways, does that score me any ‘allowed to be self-righteous about the environment’ points? 🙂 )

Is it fair to deprive your partner of a child because there’s a population explosion in Asia and latin america, Grum? I think not, go on, give her one.

Fnarrr. Why do you assume she wants a child and I don’t? We are able to have perfectly honest discussions about this and she feels very similarly to how I do.

I can think of plenty of childless friends who lead a higher impact lifestyle than me.

I’m really not sure that’s right – especially if you take a longer term view. As molgrips says, the calculation isn’t your emissions vs theirs, it’s yours and your kids and their kid’s and their kid’s kids etc vs theirs. I really don’t see why that’s a bad argument. 😕

Well with 4 i think i have definitely helped the population explosion and bought doom to the planet (albeit in a small part) – however living in one of the less pleasant parts of Sheffield i am surrounded but a growing population of chavs that seem happy to litter, dont recycle anything, drive anywhere whenever possible and have the heating on full blast at all time – how they afford it all on benefits is beyond me.

Whereas we recyle as much as possible try and live generally with a conscience and even though we own a car cycle everywhere as much as possible. Even in this weather!

So I may have increased the population but hopefully have produced some very considerate people to the masses – which to be fair if everyone did abstain from having children due to a fear of overpopulation the resulting population might not look out of place on jeremy kyle or belong to communities who still have large families – good to try and get some balance i think.

Remember: If you don’t breed, they will….

Swedish-style eugenics? They are all sexy, wealthy and liberal, what’s not to like?

I’m really not sure that’s right – especially if you take a longer term view. As molgrips says, the calculation isn’t your emissions vs theirs, it’s yours and your kids and their kid’s and their kid’s kids etc vs theirs. I really don’t see why that’s a bad argument

It’s a bad argument because what they will do with their lives is unknowable.

You of course do need some new children, if only to pay for your pension and work in sweatshops to make your clothes…

Anyone who worries about the what impact them having a child might have on the planet are exactly the peope who should be having children!

Why? Because these people are clearly not stupid and the world needs more offspring from intelligent people.

Around the world, we have far too many uneducated, poverty stricken masses replicating at the same rate as rabbits. Many of these offspring die in hideous circumstances, but this is not something new. People have many children, fully aware of the mortality rate. It’s a like throwing mud at a wall – you hope some of it will eventually stick..a bit like the rest of the entire natural world!

Even parts of the UK has a problem with women busily pressing out babies safe in the knowledge that they haven’t a cat in Hell’s chance of bringing them up without substantial government handouts, knowing they can demand a free home and food. Often the mother has multiple partners and doesn’t even know who the father is. What a miserable state of affairs and a wholly wrong environment in which to to bring another human into this world!

In the developed world, we have far too many people requiring free stuff and that there are not enough people paying for it, but hey, that’s socialism for you!

On the subject of having an unwanted pregnancy, i’d suggest that the OP made his bed and so should now lie in it!

It won’t be the freedom sapping experience that he perceives. Children, whilst a massive responsibility, provide a great deal of joy, especially in the early years.

I feel a bit sorry for those who have the means, but have made a conscious choice to go without children, purely so they can continue to do as they please. Their lives will never be as full as those with an extended family, especially in later life.