“doing bu99er all except getting fatter” 😆

As one of the child free contingent, does that include …

An interesting and stimulating career, aimed at contributing to the public good?
Volunteering my time to help others in several clubs?
Riding my bike, hiking in the mountains, climbing etc?
Travelling the world seeing amazing places and meeting great people?
Having time for my wider family and friends?

Oh, and at 45kg I don’t think I fall within the ‘fatter’ category either 😉

Less stereotypes please!

although, one trend I’ve noticed is that folk who dress up their unwillingness to procreate with fancy pseudo morality, are, by and large, quite self important..

Wha… you jumped up little squirt!!! Don’t you know who I am?

My god but there’s some misanthropic buggers on here… 😉

It is a personal choice at the end of the day (call it a lifestyle choice if you wish)… and obviously not for everyone. There is no way that I would dream of telling anyone that they’ll regret not having kids as it really is so subjective.

FWIW I generally found other people’s kids a complete bore but always thought that I’d like to have them at some point. Despite this I married my wife knowing that she was ambivalent to it at best and we both accepted the situation. We travelled, lived abroad had good careers and generally lived it up through our 30s but people do change over time and 8 years down the line at the respective ages of 37 and 40 we started to try for for a family. We now have a beautiful, lively little boy of 3 who really is the centre of the world. We made a conscious decision early on that we would continue to do the things we love, and by and large we have… we continue to go biking and walking as a family and do a lot of camping and our boy has become a real lover of the outdoors as a result. Loveliest thing is seeing him getting enjoyment out of the simple stuff – poking around in rockpools, paddling and throwing sticks in streams and climbing stuff. It’s a life-changer certainly but I don’t regret it for a moment.

I’m pretty sure I would not have been bothered about not having a kid. More time, money, less compromises (especially in the first few years) etc. However I did and now I am pretty glad.

If he had turned into a little s++t it would be a different matter though 😐

The childless couples I know fall into several categories:

Both don’t want kids and are now too old: happy

Both do want kids but can’t: unhappy, I predict divorce with him running off with a fertile lady

He wants kids, she doesn’t: so far so good, but… .

She wanted kids, he didn’t: they’re parents now.

Nah. A single child will consume vast resources, own and drive its own car and then spawn more children.

It’s interesting that one of the reasons people cite for not wanting kids is the desire to do/ buy things that consume lots of resources…

Have you given up your car?

Well I’ve still got it, selling it on now it’s been manufactured would be fairly pointless. I rarely use it though. I’ve got a bike, see.

Of course, if I had no car I wouldn’t be able to drive my son everywhere he wants to go.

Of course, if I had no car I wouldn’t be able to drive my son everywhere he wants to go.

What’s wrong with a bike?

I’d say before the freak genetic mutation called homo sapiens came along this planet was natural perfection.

Not really. It has severely ****ed things up entirely on its own several times in is history, without any human interaction. Snowball earth, the great dying etc etc. We are just another extinction event. What you have to remember is that we are just another phenomenon like the carboniferous period or the ice ages. The only difference is that we are sentient and we assign value to the status quo. If glaciers were intelligent I expect they’d have had the same conversations about icing over the northern hemisphere. This idea of the word being some kind of perfect harmony type scenario forever is bogus, I think.

However there are two other issues – we do need to look after it, not because the earth itself actually cares but because WE care about that which we would lose, and also because OUR livelihoods depend on it. It’s human issue not a geological one.

Anyway, here’s another more relvant point. Any of our kids could be the one that invents clean cheap renewable power, or brings world peace. If we didn’t have them, that might never happen.

What’s wrong with a bike?

What’s that Samuri junior? You want to go to the zoo? Ok, set your alarm for 6am we’ve got eight hours of riding ahead of us. Better bring some food and something to do whilst you sit in the trailer.

Obviously the people worried about the environmental impact of children are sitting in a drafty teepee they made themselves, pedalling a generator to power the home built computer they’re using to write their posts.

Yeah?

What’s wrong with a bike?

You’ve not got a teenage son have you? Hair is the major issue. As are ridiculous trousers that are a) deadly when trying to ride a bike, and b)must be pristine to allow him to attract girls, spread his flawed genetic material, spawn children, destroy the planet etc etc.

Horses for courses innit,never thought about having kids in my 20’s but things change
im 48 now and we have three (13,9 & 4) yep they turn your world upside down but you just adapt
we still have a social life we still ride bikes we have friends who have no kids I dont feel there lives are
way more exciting than ours and vice versa …its personnel choice

I used to be on the yoghurt knitting, conscientious meat objector “world’s going to hell in handcart, save yourselves by reducing your procreation” side of the fence but recently I’ve switched.

Here’s the thing – those of us without kids have less invested in the planet’s survivability in the future. Those of you with kids presumably want your offspring and your offspring’s offspring to inherit a world in good fettle. Me, I’ve realised that as long as it’s got 40 good years left in it I couldn’t give a toss. If you “responsible” childrearing types aren’t too fussed why should I be? It’s quite liberating!

Here’s the thing – those of us without kids have less invested in the planet’s survivability in the future.

Funny I find it quite intriguing that now I have a child, then maybe, just maybe, I’ll have descendents alive in hundreds, thousands or even millions of years. Just like my ancestors do. The story continues.

If I was childless, the story stops with me, whatever trials and tribulation my ancestors went through, the story stops here.

Childless people, don’t go off on one about this, everyone should do what’s right for them of course. I’m just saying I find this idea fun think about.

It’s interesting that one of the reasons people cite for not wanting kids is the desire to do/ buy things that consume lots of resources…

Have you given up your car?

Obviously the people worried about the environmental impact of children are sitting in a drafty teepee they made themselves, pedalling a generator to power the home built computer they’re using to write their posts.
Yeah?

Hmmm, this kind of argument gets trotted out a lot on here and it’s a pretty poor one IMO. You don’t have to be 100% ethically pure to be allowed to care about stuff at all.

It’s amazing how being even vaguely critical of anything relating to being a parent seems to be such a no-no generally. We are seemingly fine with constantly judging and questioning everything, but the minute you question anyone’s parenting choices, even slightly……

Funny I find it quite intriguing that now I have a child, then maybe, just maybe, I’ll have descendents alive in hundreds, thousands or even millions of years. Just like my ancestors do. The story continues.
If I was childless, the story stops with me, whatever trials and tribulation my ancestors went through, the story stops here.

Isn’t that a little arrogant/self-obsessed though? The desire to ‘leave your mark’?

I’ve got a teenage son, I cut his hair to the style he wants so it’s not an issue other than that he won’t wear a helmet as it messes up the style. He’s got three bikes, one of which is for personal transport. He’s got a couple of velcro bands to keep his trousers safe and I insist on lights/fluo jacket even if the helmet is optional. We’ve taken the bus skiing for the last three weeks rather than use the car.

Edit: we don’t live in a teepee but cooking on the wood burner last night means the place will be warm enough till we cook tonight. The solar panels are currently producing much more than this computer is using.

mattjg – Member

If I was childless, the story stops with me, whatever trials and tribulation my ancestors went through, the story stops here.

genes are a bit like building blocks, they are not unique. The combination of genes that helped create you will never be seen again. the individual building blocks are found all over the place, in other people, in other primates, in other animals, even in plants.

the only unique information you can ‘pass on’ is your own mutations – isn’t that a fun idea!

Well done Edukator would you like a biscuit?

No ta, Molgrips. I’m sure you’ve gathered from all the diet threads that I don’t eat biscuits unless I’m on the bike.

Hmmm, this kind of argument gets trotted out a lot on here and it’s a pretty poor one IMO. You don’t have to be 100% ethically pure to be allowed to care about stuff at all.

If people who cite environmental concerns for not having kids really believed what they say, they would be making some effort to live their lives accordingly.

Edukator – Member

Edit: we don’t live in a teepee but cooking on the wood burner last night means the place will be warm enough till we cook tonight. The solar panels are currently producing much more than this computer is using.

now, i hope you’re not getting a little smug or preachy, your life sounds great! i will even confess to a little jealousy, but i can’t afford a life/house like yours.

(you’re probably ‘allowed’ to be a little smug and preachy)

Dont want to put a damper on his, but before posting the more emotive stuff perhaps we should spare a thought for those on here and elsewhere who have recently lost their children. No harm is a sensible discussions on a good topic, but perhaps not the most appropriate time for glibness. (apologies if that sounds as if it is coming from a high horse or personal, neither are intended.)

^^^ It’s been tried already, the thread rolls on

If people who cite environmental concerns for not having kids really believed what they say, they would be making some effort to live their lives accordingly.

Maybe, although just by not having kids they are already doing more for the planet than an eco-conscious family with a couple of kids. See the ‘humans are a plague’ comments from Attenborough etc

That seems to makes you feel guilty/judgemental about people who make a different choice but it’s true isn’t it?

I can’t say environmental concerns are a major factor for me in decisions about having kids, but it is something I’ve thought about.

Isn’t that a little arrogant/self-obsessed though? The desire to ‘leave your mark’?

No it’s nothing to do with that, it’s because I like the idea of an open ended story stretching into the future vs a closed one that stops here.

It’s just a fun idea is all.

Feel free to think I’m smug and preachy, awhiles, I’m just relating what I’m done. I’ve been convinced by the alternative technology and sustainable arguments since the 70s. A few years ago I realised I had the money, time and motivation to adopt a more sustainable lifestyle without compromising the things I enjoy in life. I’ve been pleasantly surprised by how easy, cheap and enjoyable it’s been.

If people who cite environmental concerns for not having kids really believed what they say, they would be making some effort to live their lives accordingly.

Like jumping infront of a train to stop being a drain on resources since they are not going to add to the future of the human race anyway. They are the human equivalent of leaving your car outside your house with the engine running – it just wastes fuel and doesn’t get you anywhere.

Like jumping infront of a train to stop being a drain on resources since they are not going to add to the future of the human race anyway.

Yes let’s take everything to its most ludicrously extreme extent, that’s a good way to make an argument. 🙄

They are the human equivalent of leaving your car outside your house with the engine running – it just wastes fuel and doesn’t get you anywhere.

Eh?

They are the human equivalent of leaving your car outside your house with the engine running – it just wastes fuel and doesn’t get you anywhere.

😆

Like jumping infront of a train to stop being a drain on resources since they are not going to add to the future of the human race anyway. They are the human equivalent of leaving your car outside your house with the engine running – it just wastes fuel and doesn’t get you anywhere.

I’ll do it, as long as you’ll hold my hand whilst I do. At least my last act will be doing some good to the gene pool. You do sound like a bit of a twunt!

@grum: thought experiment, if your partner told you tomorrow she was pregnant how would you feel about that? Think about it and process it for a while. (No need to answer)!

(or is this what’s already happened?)! doh me.

You started the thread asking for thoughts, Grum, not well-argued justifications.

My own thoughts went soemthing like:

Healthy male, healthy female, no horrible family histories, I’ll take the chance on getting a healthy sane one.

One more well-educated, wanted, priviledged kid won’t do much more harm to the planet and might do some good.

A kid will add to our lives and won’t stop us doing much (selfish). We bought a Bobyjogger, tandem with kiddy seat, kiddiback tandem, skis at 22 months, rode to Berlin when he was seven.

OK so he can be a complete teenage pain in the arse sometimes – he’s human, like me.

I you want advice I can only say talk, really talk with Ms Grum. Talk about the detail, pregnacy, responsibilities, what your lives will be like, environmental issues and then ignore all that because there’s only really one issue. Would you two be happy being mum and dad?

You do sound like a bit of a twunt!

You sound like you haven’t got a sense of humour!

Well this thread has got me thinking. Getting to the age where it might not be able to happen for too much longer.

OH has declared he doens’t want any, too old he says (42), i think i might, no idea if i can or can’t. Wouldn’t want kids unmarried (personal preference) no sign of that either.

If i leave him, theres a chance I could meet someone else, at least its a chance. Slightly callous thinking? If i stay life will always be like this. Not planning for a future is a somewhat unsatisfying prospect at the moment.

You sound like you haven’t got a sense of humour!

Oh, I like a laugh at humourous stuff but you sir, ain’t all that.

Perhaps not, but you didn’t actually think I was being serious in suggesting all childless couples should kill themselves. Did you?

If you didn’t think I was being serious, why would you think I was being a ‘twunk’ rather than just making a ham-fisted attempt at humour?

We are seemingly fine with constantly judging and questioning everything, but the minute you question anyone’s parenting choices, even slightly……

Of course, we could forget that the converse is true i.e. question folks’ reasons not to, and some ridicous bollocks gets spouted. I’d probably take a look back through some of your own posts earlier for some ridiculous generalisations. Quite surprising from you.

As for the suitability of posting this thread this week (of all weeks), well, I dunno, it’s the kind of thoughtless thing a self-obsessed, me-time loving, childless person would do.

Goodness knows why we have to justify everything we do on here by insulting the choices of others (of course not everybody has done that). It shows little other than an insecurity about the validity of one’s own decisions.

it’s the kind of thoughtless thing a self-obsessed, me-time loving, childless person would do.

Goodness knows why we have to justify everything we do on here by insulting the choices of others (of course not everybody has done that). It shows little other than an insecurity about the validity of one’s own decisions.

You were of course going for the irony angle here weren’t you 😉

Someone’s proud of his metal detecting today. 🙂

EDIT: unless of course, you’re implying that saying somebody’s insecure about his or her decisions is an insult. I’d beg to differ.

It was sitting right there on the surface – just couldn’t miss it!

edit to your edit – no, just commenting on your fairly nasty dismissal of a group of people with a sweeping generalisation followed one sentence later with a lambasting of people who do the same.