You could but that would go against how people want their children educated. Why should you determine how people are educated?

People are free to top up the education with religious crap on the weekends.

The other reasons around indoctrination of minors is the big one though.

But that still doesn’t answer the question, why should you determine the policy? A fairly large proportion of the population disagree with you.

Strangely most parents have a hidden agenda for their kids, they train,bribe,indoctrinate,brain wash them into things they believe in, just like,schools,the religious lot,the boy scouts, girl guides etc, all have teachings they want the kids to obey.

To try and convert those teaching etc to be relevant in 2019 onwards is going to be difficult, remember, the evil woman who was called thatcher who introduced clause 28, the police forces who would raid gay pubs and clubs, the gay men and women who committed suicide or where killed in hate crimes.

Thats why we need education and training of the young people, no matter of which book their parents read, or which newspaper promotes their way of thinking.

Got the stats for that??

There are a massive collection of church and religious schools kicking around the place that end up hoovering up kids. Doesn’t mean everyone wants their kids to get the special extra lessons

Why should you be the one to determine how people educate their children?

Because he’s paying?

anagallis_arvensis

Member
Why should you be the one to determine how people educate their children?

Because he’s paying?

Does no-one else pay tax?

Still interested to see the stats though 😉

Part of this still w raps up in the campaign to get people to be more honest in the religion box on the census,.

The Church of England is facing a catastrophic fall in the proportion of young adults who describe themselves as Anglican as data shows an acceleration towards a secular society.

For the first time, more than half the population say they have no religion, and the generation gap on religious affiliation is widening, according to the British Social Attitudes survey.

Only 3% of adults under 24 describe themselves as Anglican – fewer than the 5% who identify as Catholic. Almost three out of four 18- to 24-year-olds say they have no religion, a rise of nine percentage points since 2015.

Among the next age group, 25-34, only 5% identify as Anglicans and 9% say they are Catholic. The presence in the UK of young European workers may be a factor in the relatively high proportion of young Catholics.

Among all adults in Britain, only 15% consider themselves to be Anglican, compared with almost one in three at the turn of the century, according to BSA data. Nine percent overall identify as Catholics, 17% as “other Christian” and 6% say they belong to non-Christian religions.

More generally, 53% of all adults describe themselves as having no religious affiliation, up from 48% in 2015. The latest figure is the highest since the BSA survey began tracking religious affiliation in 1983, when 31% said they had no religion.

“How can it be right that 97% of young people today are not Anglicans, but some 20% of the state schools to which their children will go belong to the C of E? More generally, how can the Church of England remain in any meaningful sense the national legally established church, when it caters for such a small portion of the population?” said Andrew Copson, Humanists UK’s chief executive.

Terry Sanderson, president of the National Secular Society, said: “These statistics indicate that the time has come for this country to have a serious debate about the place of religion in our society.”

The BSA data called into question the existence of faith schools and reserved seats for bishops in the House of Lords, he added.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/04/half-uk-population-has-no-religion-british-social-attitudes-survey

mikewsmith

Subscriber
Still interested to see the stats though 😉

What stats? People still send their children to faith schools, that’s the only stats that matter.

Can I just ask.

Why is there is a discussion going on about getting religion out of schools because it is brainwashing kids?

This thread is about religious parents not wanting schools teaching their “home brainwashed” kids how to be tolerant and inclusive.

It’s the kafflick schools fault for some reason! 😆

And that’s a great thing in West Coast Scotland, really drives home the “us and them” mentality when the proddies are in one school and the tims are in another.

My daughter has no idea why she shares a playground with children she went to nursery with but now attend a “different” school (in actuality nothing more than a partition internally divides the two primaries). It’s stupid and quite honest causes more problems than it solves. I’m guessing you’ve never had the classic “whit school did ye go tae?” question.

I’m guessing you’ve never had the classic “whit school did ye go tae?” question.

Who?

The discussion moved on to faith schools in general, something I disagree with on the general principle that children should not be segregated based on adult choices.

Sorry Neal, I was addressing Seosamh with that question

Why is there is a discussion going on about getting religion out of schools because it is brainwashing kids?

This thread is about religious parents not wanting schools teaching their “home brainwashed” kids how to be tolerant and inclusive.

Because if you allow parents to promote a religious based curriculum where they can pick and choose the bits you like it becomes another religious school. It’s why it’s key to keep a level playing field with these things, want one out keep them all out.

You over play the religious aspect. Like most that never went to one.

The question is simple if people don’t want religious schools they’ll stop sending their children to them, and they disappear naturally. There’s no need to campaign against them.

squirrelking

Member
Sorry Neal, I was addressing Seosamh with that question

Me personally, no. My brother did though, But that was the arse end of it in the 90s. Not really sure what point you are making though, the question “what school did you go to”, traditionally was a tool used to discriminate against catholics.

Seems like a break down in logic and completely nonsensical to then turn that round to say it’s the Catholic schools fault. Aye if there were no Catholic schools, we’d definitely not be bigoted! 😆 Complete sense!

Like most that never went to one.

How do you know they didnt? Someone educated in England is fairly likely to have done so (thanks to some 18th century parliamentary plotting once the attempts to avoid universal education failed).

and they disappear naturally.

Not that easy in many areas and, of course, even in those areas where it is more of an option some are useful for a bit of covert selection keeping out the riffraff whose parents are willing to give up a year or so of Sundays to pretend to believe.

FWIW btw, I’m completely non-religious..I just don’t see the problems that people have with them.

The question is simple if people don’t want religious schools they’ll stop sending their children to them, and they disappear naturally. There’s no need to campaign against them.

I know of a few where the parents would have no choice, it would cost them to go to another school further away especially in rural areas, in urban areas if you are int eh catchment that can be it.
As the link said 20% of the state schools in the UK are CofE despite their being not enough CofE kids to fill them!!

How do you know they didnt?

Largely cause their descriptions of them don’t really tally up with my experience.

Not that easy in many areas and, of course, even in those areas where it is more of an option some are useful for a bit of covert selection keeping out the riffraff whose parents are willing to give up a year or so of Sundays to pretend to believe.

I know of a few where the parents would have no choice,

But the rural areas are outliers. Not really the majority, if people didn’t want to send their children to these schools en mass, you would see schools in cities emptying, in the case of faith schools.

In that sense it’ll happen naturally, so I just don’t see the need for a campaign against them.

For me it’s up to the parents to make the decision.

if people didn’t want to send their children to these schools en mass, you would see schools in cities emptying, in the case of faith schools.

In isolation if all schools were equal that would be the case but if the faith and church schools can do their bit of selection and picking and maintain higher results or “posher” kids then they will be seen as the schools to go to. How about we make education better for all.

How am I saying its the fault of Catholics? I’m saying it’s a way of reinforcing the us and them mentality. Surely teaching about religion is what Sunday school is for? Reinforcing division at such an early age cannot be healthy, maybe if we didn’t have a sectarian problem I’d change my mind but that’s a long way away yet.

FWIW it was one of the first questions I was asked when I joined my work and that was only 10 years ago.

mikewsmith

in isolation if all schools were equal that would be the case but if the faith and church schools can do their bit of selection and picking and maintain higher results or “posher” kids then they will be seen as the schools to go to. How about we make education better for all.

You obviously never went to my schools! 😆

The selection and picking of schools happens all over the shop with people moving to catchment areas etc.

squirrelking

Member
How am I saying its the fault of Catholics?

Well you seem to want to close down catholic schools on the basis of that question? It’s mental logic, given the history of it.

Largely cause their descriptions of them don’t really tally up with my experience.

Not sure where to start with this aside from pointing out the minor flaw of expanding your experience to cover over 7k schools (that many in England alone which are state funded. I am too lazy to find the figures for the rest of the UK) and also across, lets say, 50 years?
As a casual example the school I went to got a new headmaster in the final year. The religion factor shot up dramatically.

You obviously never went to my schools!

and I guess you didn’t see much south of the border either….

the numbers above have it though there is a complete over supply of school places for those who want it, it would be really healthy for kids to have a space free from it growing up, for those with religious parents somewhere to get a break from it too. For those who are not to be spared the extra hours of crap they just want to ignore.

In the example that started this the kids were been given the chance to hear views and information their parents were actively hiding from them.

dissonance

Subscriber
Largely cause their descriptions of them don’t really tally up with my experience.

Not sure where to start with this aside from pointing out the minor flaw of expanding your experience to cover over 7k schools (that many in England alone which are state funded. I am too lazy to find the figures for the rest of the UK) and also across, lets say, 50 years?
As a casual example the school I went to got a new headmaster in the final year. The religion factor shot up dramatically.

And if people disagree with it they can send their children elsewhere.(in most cases there will be a choice, I’ll concede there are outliers, but I wouldn’t be one for basing nationwide policy on those.)

mikewsmith

Subscriber
You obviously never went to my schools!

and I guess you didn’t see much south of the border either….

the numbers above have it though there is a complete over supply of school places for those who want it, it would be really healthy for kids to have a space free from it growing up, for those with religious parents somewhere to get a break from it too. For those who are not to be spared the extra hours of crap they just want to ignore.

In the example that started this the kids were been given the chance to hear views and information their parents were actively hiding from them.

I suspect we’ll never agree tbh.

And if people disagree with it they can send their children elsewhere.(in most cases there will be a choice, I’ll concede there are outliers, but I wouldn’t be one for basing nationwide policy on those.)

If the number of school placed exceeds the number of kids significantly then that might be the case.

I suspect we’ll never agree tbh.

Very true I don’t really follow your logic of supply and demand when there is a constrained demand and other factors at play,I do suspect it’s quite different in many parts of Scotland with a lot more sectarian lines and 2 flavours of religion to choose from possibly catering for an over supply of places or just more separated areas.

Maybe coming back to the original point here but…

Being from Birmingham where there have been significant protests from parents of Muslim faith, I think this is a problem. I have encountered people on social media and through my employment, who are active in trying to stop the awareness programme. The angles several have taken with me are that: –
– It should be the parents choice when they make their children aware
– It’s all to do with promoting values counter to Islam to erode Islam
– It’s explicit in nature

All of the above is bullshit. I’m glad to say none who have expressed this are my friends – many who are Muslims. For those protesting, the choice of when would be never, it’s not looking to convert anyone nor is it explicit.

Well you seem to want to close down catholic schools on the basis of that question? It’s mental logic, given the history of it.

Well I’m hardly going to recommend changing the non dom schools to Catholic now am I? You seem to be ignoring my overall point though so I’m just going to leave at this point.

I’m not ignoring it, I’m treating it with contempt.

It’s saying, lets close Catholic schools cause we’ve been discriminating against them for over a 100 years. Sectarianism is all their fault.

It’s utter nonsense reasoning.

My wife has reviewed those materials, and went to a seminar about the program with the author (Andrew Moffat). It was a careful, considered approach to introducing the concept of relationships at an early age, attempting to normalise all types early. Laudable.

I liked the irony of the parents saying they didn’t want their children being indoctrinated.

That does make me chuckle!

It’s sad that people think like that.
at our son’s nursery there are 2 little ones who have 2 dad’s (partners rather than step etc), our son thinks absolutely nothing of it and the little ones asked my wife if our son had 2 daddies and looked a little sad for him when she said ‘no just the one daddy’.
personally I think it is awesome that our son has the knowledge about these things as kids just don’t care, it’s parents that cause the issue.

Why should you be the one to determine how people educate their children?

Because he’s paying?

Does no-one else pay tax?

No lots of other people pay tax.

The question is simple if people don’t want religious schools they’ll stop sending their children to them, and they disappear naturally. There’s no need to campaign against them.

Not when the schools have less working class kids they wont.

Religious primary schools overall were more likely to have a wealthier student population, with over one in four (27 per cent) having significantly fewer disadvantaged pupils than other nearby schools, compared with 17 per cent of non-faith primaries.

The difference was especially pronounced in Roman Catholic schools.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/faith-schools-segregated-ethnic-social-most-uk-grammar-education-charity-schooldash-challenge-icoco-a7643621.html

At the risk of swerving violently back on-topic,

https://inews.co.uk/news/education/lgbt-sex-relationship-education-mps-support