Anybody got one or been out with someone who has? I fancy one but the internet is light on reviews. I’m concerned the two zips are potential leak points, but I think offer great venting options.

Smock

If you’re thinking of it for biking, you’d probably be fine – I’m not a huge fan of Paramo for general use, but do have a Velez Adventure light that I wear on the bike at this time of year; even when it’s raining heavily, the zips aren’t a particular ingress point.
You might already be aware, but the fabric isn’t waterproof, so relies on the owner maintaining the DWR using Nikwax to function as the manufacturer intended.

Primarily for use on foot in the hills but would see occasional bike use. I’m wondering also with a rucsack over the top the zips would chaff your skin?

Paramo zips have flaps on the inside to stop water ingress, so abrasion shouldn’t be a problem

I have a Velez smock in the light fabric

The big consideration with Paramo (apart from the fact it’s quite warm and heavy) is, as ditch_jockey says, you have to maintain it. If a Goretex-type membrane ‘fails’ it stops breathing but stays waterproof. When Paramo fails it leaks like a sieve. I got badly caught out in the lakes a few years ago. My fault for not Nikwaxing it regularly enough but still a very grim day.

They are however, very very comfortable for all day use and breathe extremely well- much better than any membrane (inc eVent) I’ve ever used.

When Paramo fails it leaks like a sieve. I got badly caught out in the lakes a few years ago. My fault for not Nikwaxing it regularly enough but still a very grim day.

+1 I may have also managed this.

I’ve got a smock and a bike one thou because they are very good if a little warm and as everyone else says they do breathe really well.

You won’t be on a ‘wrong un’ if you buy at the right price in a sale and keep up on the Nike wax tbh.

Have you used Paramo before? If not I’d see if you could borrow one to try it. It’s not for everyone or every application. If it works for you, great, if not it’s a costly mistake.

The other issue with Paramo is rucksack straps……. It’s a great concept for walking, but you need to be aware that if you put a rucksack on which presses the fabric against your body, water will eventually get in through the pressure areas. A proper walking jacket from Paramo has two light foam inserts from the shoulders to your waist which keeps the pack from pushing water through the fabric, and reinforced shoulders to help. I’ve got an Alta and a Halcon, both of which have these inserts, and the Alta has double layer shoulders.

Keeping it proofed isn’t a nightmare. A 30 degree wash in pure soap, then dried in the airing cupboard is all it takes.. Every three washes I’ll use the wash-in direct to keep up to the DWR.

Customer service is good too. I have a Halcon jacket used more or less every day. Bought in late 2014 it has never let water through, but had been torn on thorns and wire in a couple of places, and was showing signs of wear on some panels. The zip eventually broke, so I sent it off to Paramo. They replaced the zip, replaced the entire back-panel, patched over the wear on the chest and sleeve, then laundered and reproofed it. All for 95 quid. Not the fastest turn around, but these things seriously live forever if you keep up to them.

I use paramo for hill walking all year round. Velez in Summer, endura in summer.
They are warm but well ventilated, regular care needed as stated above.
I love it as more breathable than membranes and softer, less wrinkly.
If you do get wet then Paramo actively dries you out after the rain stops. In membrane jackets you stay wet.

Have you used Paramo before? If not I’d see if you could borrow one to try it. It’s not for everyone or every application. If it works for you, great, if not it’s a costly mistake.

This.

I “caved in” a few years ago on the back of a Go Outdoors bargain. Nope. Just doesn’t work for me at all. From the overheating to the apparent dampness and the baggy cut, it was just all wrong. I dig mine out once a year, convinced it must “just be me”. My opinion hasn’t changed.

@Scapegoat. Do you find yourself damp in the Alta with a rucsac on?

@Scapegoat. Do you find yourself damp in the Alta with a rucsac on?

To be fair I haven’t worn it with a pack, it’s a daily dog-walking coat. The Halcon is used for hill stalking with a slung rifle, or carrying a shotgun in a slip in the worst weather and that hasn’t let me down.

I do know a couple of gamekeepers who have bought velez/venture smocks but then worn a waistcoat over the top. That’s caused the thing to fail.

Where are you based @lotto?

I’ve got a few Paramo and would be happy to lend you one if you want to see how it works out for you? I’m based in Tonbridge

Thanks ibnchris, but I’m a few hundred miles from Kent.  I’m familiar with Paramo, just attracted to the twin zip for venting. In my current Paramo I often feel damp, but I open up to check and I’m dry. Thought the extra venting would allow extra air circulation.

Ah, ok. In that case I’d give one a go if I were you! Thinking about getting one myself for winter adventures but it hasn’t got cold enough yet…

It’s funny how Paramos are such a marmite thing. I have a Velez light and a Velez normal weight smock. I prefer the light.

This is the only thing that keeps me dry. I have tried at least 20 gore text coats and I always get wet and sweaty. And when I’m wet I stay wet. With my Velez I dry out fast when I get out of the rain and it doubles as a wind proof or general top when not raining… When a goretex would be too sweaty. It can be a bit warm in the summer but as it breaths well and you can vent it it keeps me drier in summer rain than a sweaty or leaky membrane coat. I take it off when not raining in the summer. I keep it on in cold dry conditions.

Also My velez is covered in patches and it still works so has lasted years as you can keep repairing it. I commute about 100 miles plus per week and this winter that means about 80 miles in rain and drizzle. I haven’t got wet through all over once. But you do need to use the right base layer. I now use the Paramo grid things.

I looked at that new smock but can’t work out if the double zip thing is genius or bonkers.

In general though I think the normal Velez Smock is hard to beat… For me. So I hope they don’t retire it in favor of this new one.

Have you ever worn the Velez smock with a rucsack? If so how did it fair?

Only with a day sack for walking. It has been ok but I do wonder how it would fair for all day walking with a heavy backpacking pack.

Not familiar with Paramo, so just had a quick search – they look rather like a tarted up version of the Buffalo Special 6 with a permanent hood fitted, or am I mistaken?
I bought a Super 6 last October, mainly for work because the kit supplied is a tee shirt, sweat shirt, fleece and PU nylon high-viz jacket, which I find just gets sweaty and is bulky.
The Special 6 has been worn every day, with only a Helly Lifa underneath, on really wet days I put a cheap Peter Storm nylon jacket over the top just to keep the worst of the rain off, and I’ve been so much more comfortable in it than with the supplied kit.
I do wear a high-viz vest over the top regardless, H&S demands it, but that’s nothing to do with weather or comfort.

Nothing like a Buffalo really. Buffalo is Pile and Pertex where as the Paramo is designed to operate like animal fur. I’ve wore Buffalo for years on the hill now, but I’ve been volunteering for local hill events lately, and it is really unsuitable for my role. I carry lots of kit in, so really sweating/working hard then tend to stand about. The two situations where Buffalo are not great. I’ve been wearing an Alta 3 with a Torres over the top when I stop. Generally I feel damp though and I think it is from chilling when stopped. I thought the hybrid venting options would allow me to remain cool on the move and fortress up when stopped. Most other guys wear hardshells and traditional layering. I’m personally not a fan of hardshells at all. The kit is all borrowed at the minute just to see what suits me, I’m on the Paramo road but I need to refine it to fully trust it. Also never been out in truly horrendous weather where people are saying it quickly becomes overwhelmed due to the wind acting like you leaning against a wall. Those days hardshell is the only option, but for me at the minute it will do 75% of the time.

I carry lots of kit in, so really sweating/working hard then tend to stand about. The two situations where Buffalo are not great.

Buffalo is perfect for the standing about bit just not the high exertion bit.

I too am a Paramo fan. All our staff uniform at the outdoor centres was Paramo – cosy, effective at keeping us dry up Munro’s, down rivers and standing around on archery (again).

However.

Even thier new cutting patterns are just odd. Short, dumpy, huge shoulders and wide sleeves. The old cut was laughable.

They also regularly mess up minor details of zip placement or pocket angle, which smacks of not quite enough testing.

They also seem to employ a primary school child to choose each seasons colours.

I’d like a velez light at the moment though.

I’ve never found my Special 6 Buffalo great when immobile. It is windproof but not a great insulator. After the warm air you have trapped cools, then without moving there is no way to get that warmth back. I know I’m seeking the Holy Grail. Comfortable when moving, warm when stopped in a British climate. There is obviously compromises. I run cold so can cope with the walk in being warm. After a few hours at a checkpoint I’m rather stiff from the cold.

I have a Quito and it gets damp around the shoulders with a day sack weighing about 4kg. It’s supposed to be a slim cut but it’s quite baggy. Those are the only negatives, I like the soft quiet material, probably a better fast walking jacket than fast cycling jacket.

It is the soft quiet material I like too. I’m thinking maybe of wearing the Paramo and having one of those Jackets in a Pack type things on stand by to keep the worst of it off me if the heavens really open and the wind begins to howl.

lotto
I’ve never found my Special 6 Buffalo great when immobile….After a few hours at a checkpoint I’m rather stiff from the cold.

That’s what the Buffalo belay jacket is for. Chuck it on top when immobile.

But no amount of insulation will keep you warm if your body is not producing heat.

Comfortable when moving, warm when stopped in a British climate. There is obviously compromises

That is what an extra layer or two is for.

And that is my bind. I don’t have the room or could carry an extra layer or two weight wise with the equipment we carry into the hill.

Surely you have space for puffy jacket?
What are you carrying so large?

Marking sticks, tape, tools, food and water. Something like a Patagonia Nano Air maybe for when stopped. Was really looking for something that would do from valley to summit, hence Paramo. Hate exchanging layers.

Anyway, is this the same as the Gravel version?