Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 47 total)
  • PAIS Christian movement running a club in local school
  • Premier Icon Kip
    Full Member

    OK, so we get am email telling us that PAIS is doing a Friday lunchtime MAD club. They’ve done an assembly already with the kids to tell them about Making-a-Difference club where they’ll get to learn about community values and do stuff to help the community.

    My initial reaction is, who are these people? so I do some research. I find this: https://paismovement.com (I’m on my phone and don’t know how to make a proper link sorry).

    The email attachment says they are a Christian group linked to a local Baptist Church.

    I find out that amongst other things they believe in Creationism and, I quote, “missionaries making missionaries”. (I’ve already made the smutty joke about that so you don’t need to).

    Further investigation found, well, very little else actually, at least nothing negative and no forums posts anywhere like this one. My friend was up in arms and really started digging and has found they have links to strongly evangelical churches with American money.

    We have raised concerns with the school etc etc, but basically I’d like to know if anyone here knows anything about them? Are they doing stuff in your kid’s school, do you kniw anything about them. Will they shut this post down as it may get negative?

    Anything appreciated, cheers.

    (sits back and waits for the Simpsons pitchforks and flaming torches mob meme).

    Premier Icon schmiken
    Full Member

    They’re likely to be just normal people trying to create more of a community through young people. I’m a member of the local Baptist church and help run a youth group so kids have somewhere to go on a Friday night. We’re not all brainwashing types!

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Full Member

    My initial reaction is, who are these people?

    Ask the school. Presumably they will have a fuller idea of who is being let loose on the kids. Will also guide you on the content of the club, and how pushy the club will be in terms of ‘Christian’ content.

    Most evangelical churches and movements in the UK have strong links with their US equivalents – pretty much the whole movement in the UK has its roots and inspiration in the US equivalent.

    It may be no more than showing the children an example of someone living a generous life in the community rather than showing powerpoints with subliminal messages about going to hell in them.

    While nothing I can see about them would cause me to ring social services, given the missionary focus of the group, it’s hard to see past the idea that among the ‘community values’ content will be some messages designed to get bums on pews at some point.

    Premier Icon P-Jay
    Free Member

    A few of my mates are baptists and my Son is a member of a baptist youth club.

    TBH they’re a mixed bunch like any other, make no mistake whilst they do a lot of good work in he community they’re also looking to recruit people to their flock – they do this to grow the church and they do believe it’s in everyone’s interest to do so, but just because they’re doing something nice it doesn’t mean it’s some hidden recruitment policy – they run very good, very cheap youth clubs to give kids somewhere to go, God no doubt comes up in convo, though. Most of my Son’s class goes, but only 2 are church goers.

    But they don’t push, it’s not a cult and they don’t hold secret meetings to work out how to drag you and your family to church – in 5 years of working with an otherwise 100% baptist company I’ve never once been asked to join the flock, I’ve been invited to a few social events, but never gone, not because I think they’ll try to brainwash me, they just don’t appeal. (Christian Rock, no thanks).

    My baptist mates are completely tolerant to gay people and other religions, more than happy to discuss anything you fancy without being offended and never assume they know anything because it’s in a book or their pastor tells them so.

    If you’re looking for a smoking gun…

    About 3 years ago one of my mates said “if dinosaurs existed, where’s the proof?” Although he wasn’t talking to me I sort of laughed and left the room, he’s the only one who doesn’t believe in dinosaurs. That’s about the only think I thought was weird ha ha

    Premier Icon Kip
    Full Member

    I really didn’t want to say this as it sounds so twee but, some of our best friends are Baptists. They’re lovely and if aliens landed and said what are Christians then? I’d point them in their direction because they empitimise everything I think Christianity should be. If I had an epiphany I’d join their Church it’s that much fun (been to many of their events and if you didn’t know you were in a Church you’d think it was just a fun community group!) but they also don’t believe in Creationism or take the bible literally, or go into schools to work with the kids directly, or have a leader who’s written a book called “How to disciple anyone in anything.”

    I have no problem with Christianity or Christians, what I don’t like is the way it was put to the kids before the parents, oh and that if we don’t want our kids to attend, we have to let the office know. Why? I’ll just tell my kid not to attend. They don’t need to know.

    Anyway, I’m ranting. I’m not saying any groups out there are cults or that “your” Baptist group is trying to convert our pagan souls. I’m asking if anyone knows anything about PAIS in particular, because we can’t seem to find any first person, non-PAIS information.

    Premier Icon Kip
    Full Member

    Oh, and we did ask the school and the head admitted he didn’t realise they were quite that Christian, or what the content of the club would be.

    Premier Icon P-Jay
    Free Member

    Seems almost silly to say then, but assume you’ve asked the baptists in your squad about PAIS?

    Premier Icon deviant
    Free Member

    I’d sooner have Katie Hopkins talking in my school than these religious types, at least KH is responsible for less wars than religion.

    I’d pull my children from this nonsense, they could do something more useful like paint school fences or count blades of grass on the playing field.

    Premier Icon Kip
    Full Member

    P-Jay: actually no, but only because I’ve not had the chance as they’re away.

    Premier Icon badnewz
    Free Member

    The baptist strategy is to get to the kids first, knowing the parents follow. It happened to my local united reformed church, which lost many members to the baptists as the parents tend to go because the kids have made friends with the baptist kids and they do a lot of youth groups.
    As above they are very clever / manipulative and heavily informed by what works in the usa.
    Id be weary and chat to the school, otherwise you will be a baptist in 2 years time, mark these words

    Premier Icon P-Jay
    Free Member

    Well apart from the fact that in 5 years I’m yet to step foot in their church?

    Premier Icon enfht
    Free Member

    Do they slaughter their meat in a medieval stylee?

    Premier Icon gobuchul
    Free Member

    The baptist strategy is to get to the kids first, knowing the parents follow. It happened to my local united reformed church, which lost many members to the baptists as the parents tend to go because the kids have made friends with the baptist kids and they do a lot of youth groups.
    As above they are very clever / manipulative and heavily informed by what works in the usa.
    Id be weary and chat to the school, otherwise you will be a baptist in 2 years time, mark these words

    That’s one of the funniest posts ever! 😆

    Premier Icon badnewz
    Free Member

    😉

    Premier Icon shifter
    Free Member

    What does PAIS stand for?

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Full Member

    Partial Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome.

    Intersex for Jesus.

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Full Member

    Or a Greek word which has been claimed variously to mean both ‘boys’ and ‘gay lover’ in Biblical extracts.

    Premier Icon badnewz
    Free Member

    Im not joining your baptist church lyn, you always get people when theyre down.

    Just had a look at their website. Seems fairly standard us influenced evangelical movement material, smartly branded.

    Hillsong has raised the game what with Beiber.

    Premier Icon leffeboy
    Full Member

    Do you trust your kids to make their own mind up on this stuff? If so then let them go if they want. From your point of view the only thing you might want to ask them if if they have a child safeguarding policy which they really should have to make sure known dodgy characters don’t get to run the groups and that they have thought that stuff through. Otherwise have at it

    Premier Icon aracer
    Free Member

    deviant wrote:

    I’d sooner have Katie Hopkins talking in my school than these religious types, at least KH is responsible for less wars than religion.

    She must be very disappointed by that. But then she’s not exactly Helen.

    Premier Icon leffeboy
    Full Member

    Actually, reading through the PAIS stuff it’s going to depend a bit on the actual people involved (big surprise there). It looks like they place volunteers in communities to do this sort of thing. I’ve seen some quite incredible people do this kind of work before who are real role models. You also sometimes see people who are a bit lost themselves. In either case your kids will work it out

    Premier Icon Junkyard
    Free Member

    From your point of view the only thing you might want to ask them if if they have a child safeguarding policy

    Pretty sure i would want to know if their values and view of the world matched mine
    If the EDL did youth clubs the fact they had a good child protection policy and the facts I trusted my kids to make their own minds up would not lead to their attendance

    Christians never do community stuff just for the community they do it to save their souls and to gain others for their flock

    Premier Icon wilburt
    Free Member

    I’m not comfortable with religious groups being given access to children. Most kids know better but some will succumb.

    Premier Icon gobuchul
    Free Member

    Christians never do community stuff just for the community they do it to save their souls and to gain others for their flock

    Not true.

    Premier Icon oldmanmtb
    Free Member

    Religion and education needs a very clear dividing line… or in IT terms a firewall.

    Nothing good comes from the “Good” book.

    Premier Icon davidtaylforth
    Free Member

    Yep, it’s frightening that in this day and age this sorts of community groups are allowed to exist.

    Premier Icon johnnystorm
    Full Member

    The comment that the head teacher didn’t know their agenda that well is the shocker from all this. Evangelists gonna do their thing but if the head is allowing them in he should know exactly who/what they are.

    Premier Icon oldmanmtb
    Free Member

    I’m with Junkyard, statistical analysis of religious organisations ability to do inapproprate stuff indicates –
    Influencing the vulnerable, recruitment and telling lies (mormons, creationists etc) is the common activity. just coz you believe in stuff don’t make it true.

    Premier Icon Junkyard
    Free Member

    Not true.

    Yes it is

    Pfft who needs evidence when we can do this

    the head teacher didn’t know their agenda

    Not true as you know they are always open and honest about their agenda ask gobby for a two word answer.

    Premier Icon leffeboy
    Full Member

    Nope, there are plenty of Christians who do things just for the sake of their community in the same way there are also plenty of other groups that do things just for the sake of the community. The idea that it is just to increase the size of the ‘flock’ is up their with the idea of some global conspiracy to rule the world. Most people have ideals and vision way below that

    Premier Icon Junkyard
    Free Member

    The idea that it is just to increase the size of the ‘flock’ is up their with the idea of some global conspiracy to rule the world

    You do know what Evangelist means dont you?

    Premier Icon gobuchul
    Free Member

    Not true as you know they are always open and honest about their agenda ask gobby for a two word answer.

    So ALL Christian’s only do things for their own benefit and to spread their “agenda”?

    What is “their agenda”?

    Pretty sure i would want to know if their values and view of the world matched mine

    To what extent? I pretty sure most reasonable, right minded people share similar values. Why do you these people would be different?

    What is it about Christians that frightens you so much?

    Premier Icon Junkyard
    Free Member

    What is “their agenda”?

    Not sure the bible is so unclear as to what the wages of sins are and how to avoid this

    Look its obvious all religions try [ to various degrees] to convert folk to their belief system to save their souls. Only on STW do you need to debate this like its controversial

    Why do you these people would be different?

    They are religious and I am not- its almost as if we both have a different value system and moral code and outlook on life. You are asking questions you know the answer to.

    What is it about Christians that frightens you so much?

    Frightens 😯 🙄
    I think you mean appals me Views on homosexuality, salvation, God existing , that they might cover up sexual abuse to protect their church. Do you want more.

    Do you think Christians respect my heathen ways? Apparently they think i burn in hell for my choices even then I dont think i frighten them with my lifestyle.

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    Despite having grandparents who were active Methodists, I’m not religious. My kids have been through CofE aided schools and Guide and Scout groups linked to churches and do you know what? They aren’t religious either.

    The only thing that worries me is the level of paranoia people display whenever a religious group is mentioned. The instant suspicion, hatred and – frankly – hypocritical bigotry spouted at religious groups at local level is astounding.

    Let the kids try it, get a feel for what is actually being offered/pushed, and then hit the panic button if necessary.

    Premier Icon gobuchul
    Free Member

    I think you mean appals me Views on homosexuality, salvation, God existing , that they might cover up sexual abuse to protect their church. Do you want more.
    Do you think Christians respect my heathen ways? Apparently they think i burn in hell for my choices even then I dont think i frighten them with my lifestyle.

    Do you think all Christians want to convert you?

    Do you think all Christians would cover up sexual abuse? By the very act of doing so, would not be at all Christian behaviour.

    Do you think all Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin?

    Do you honestly believe that a local Church, for example, that runs a food bank and gives soup to the homeless, is doing it to for purely selfish reasons?

    If something appals you so much why do you tolerate it in our society?

    Premier Icon schmiken
    Full Member

    Christians never do community stuff just for the community they do it to save their souls and to gain others for their flock

    Bollocks. I do loads of community work – I do cycling coaching, run a bike group at school and run a couple of youth groups. It’s cos it helps create a community which benefits everyone and cos it’s a nice thing to do.

    Premier Icon Junkyard
    Free Member

    For balance and get ready for the retraction/back pedal moment- depending on how charitable you wish to be i either overstated the case, expressed it poorly or was talking bollocks

    It would have been wiser to say christian organisations that are evangelical do what they do for the reasons I stated.
    I accept that on an individual level an individual [ of faith or not] may do things for a myriad of reasons but the organised church do it for the reasons i sated and often, as in this case, they are less than open about their reasons.
    I overstated it expressed it poorly
    Apologies.

    Premier Icon Kip
    Full Member

    Wow, well that all kicked off while I was out on my bike!

    First up, I never used the word agenda, I said the head wasn’t aware of how Christian the group was. By that I mean the group PAIS and their mission statement of “missionaries making missionaries”

    Next, I have no issue with the majority of people be they Christian or otherwise as long as they’re not trying to convince my 7 and a half year old child of things we don’t believe in without us being there. This group is run by church goers who state that they believe in the virgin birth, creationism and the bible as literal fact.

    Kip Jr’s a bright spark and doesn’t want to go to the group but I’ve worked with kids that age before and it doesn’t take much for them to start to hero worship but again that isn’t the big issue.

    The issue is that we were not told about the group before the kids were and that our head seems a little unaware of what they might be doing.

    They might just be doing loads of great stuff about community awareness and being kind to people but we don’t know as there is no information about what will take place in the sessions.

    What I am looking for is actual first hand experience of people having this group in their Primary School (which seems to be non-existent on the internet) so at least we have experiential information about it, not just their words.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Full Member

    Do you think all Christians want to convert you?

    Do you think all Christians would cover up sexual abuse? By the very act of doing so, would not be at all Christian behaviour.

    Do you think all Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin?

    Do you honestly believe that a local Church, for example, that runs a food bank and gives soup to the homeless, is doing it to for purely selfish reasons?

    All? No.

    The majority even? Probably not.

    But some? Absolutely. The vulnerable (children, the homeless) are low-hanging fruit for recruitment / conversion by those with an agenda. I’m not even going to pass comment on the other two points because I can’t seriously believe you’re implying that has never happened.

    Which, I believe, was what the OP was asking. Is this particular group all cuddly Christians who just want to do good in the community, or a splinter group of Westboro who are using underhand tactics to get ’em early? Odds are that it’s the former but it’s a valid question that no-one’s really answered yet.

    If something appals you so much why do you tolerate it in our society?

    Demonstrably quite a few folk don’t.

    Premier Icon Kip
    Full Member

    Thank you Cougar, that is exactly what I wanted to know…this particular group….

    If no-one knows that’s fine but I hoped someone would.

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