Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)
  • Overtraining – nutrition.
  • Premier Icon Kryton57
    Subscriber

    Yeah bollocks, I started feeling I’ll like I was bonking last two sets of intervals, and this week I’ve been waking up at 4am, head racing unable to sleep.   So it’s time to knock it back for sure, but this was a big prelude to an ftp test goal next weekend, and I do now have a taper week.

    I want to know does nutrition help overtraining recovery?  Ultimately I’m asking whether I should replace a couple of weekend beers with something more sensible to help recovery and sleep.  I don’t drink during the week fwiw.

    chevychase
    Member

    Keto.

    Bonk-free 15-hour fasted rides with nothing to eat, but no hunger as your body eats away at your belly fat nirvana! 🙂

    You ain’t gonna set any records though – as you lose about the top 15% of your power…

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Subscriber

    Pretty much anything other than alcohol would improve your recovery, though I am not a sports nutritionist

    Premier Icon MSP
    Subscriber

    Maybe try and have the two beers in a nice relaxing manner, sounds like you are overthinking it and getting yourself stressed, take some time to chill and mentally recuperate. Get a babysitter, take the misses out and have a nice evening, with or without beer, get the mind off work and training at least for a few hours.

    I’d have a whacking great bowl of cereal, a cool bath and a quick nap if I was in your position. Then get up and enjoy a beer in the cool of the evening.
    The work is done now, don’t cut back on the carbs just yet and mess it all up. There’ll be a lot of extra heat stress in this weather.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
    Subscriber

    Good advice MSP and RD, thanks.  I have a steadily increasing yet lower carb diet  than previous years, now having lost 8.5kg since last November.  This coming weeks diet will have the same overall calories but increasing amounts of carbs.

    I probably wasn’t clear but I guess I was really asking if kicking back tonight would do any real harm.  I have an mtb recovery ride to tomorrow morning, and have asked Jnr to come with me as an 11yo pace will keep me honest with that, before kicking back and nodding off during the gran prix.

    re heat stress, yes, my first fail was during Thursdays Zwift TTT in a 30 degree mancave which was my penultimate effort of a two month power plan. I have concerns over next weekend temperatures so will move my test to early morning, getting up earlier with a carb heavy Saturday, and Sunday breakfast.   The actual effort will be using Beta Fuel and Turbo+ as a mouthwash so as heavy as it gets for an hour.

    You’re the only guy who treats an ftp test as an A race. You are mad as a hatter!
    However seeing as none of us are getting any racing then maybe you’re having the last laugh.

    hugo
    Member

    I want to know does nutrition help overtraining recovery?

    Yes, of course.

    Ultimately I’m asking whether I should replace a couple of weekend beers with something more sensible to help recovery and sleep. I don’t drink during the week fwiw.

    A literal couple of beers? I’m not sure that will make any noticeable difference. Yes, diet helps recovery but adding 50ml of ethanol overall isn’t going to change much.

    I’d be looking more at the nutrition around your training as bonking indicates an issue here and avoiding this in the first place will be far kinder to the body.

    Good luck though, there are a hundred moving parts when it comes to training, recovery and nutrition. Hard to know for sure.

    Premier Icon robbo1234biking
    Subscriber

    Life stress makes a lot of difference. Your wife was made redundant this week wasn’t she? Things like that add up.

    I concur with rollindoughnut and FTP test shouldn’t be anywhere near as intense so wondering which one your doing & in August ? Also how are you monitoring your fitness & training how do you know if you’re over trained if you’re using power – WKO ?

    Premier Icon Kryton57
    Subscriber

    treats an ftp test as an A race. You are mad as a hatter!

    Ha Ha – well yes but I’m riding the crest of a training-plan-finally-coming-together wave and having something to aim for has enabled me to push myself more, albeit maybe a little too much, if failing in the very last 2 sessions of two months of a plan isn’t actually quite impressively accurate.

    A literal couple of beers?

    Yep, 2 x Moretti 330’s.

    …bonking…   … Hard to know for sure…  …how do you know if you’re over trained…

    Well maybe just a build up of fatigue as my TSB is currently shows at “1”, yet I felt sick, lightheaded, my HR was below where it should have been, I was struggling get the power out and didn’t have the will to continue.   I did have plenty of Carbs on board.   Those are obvious signs of fatigue, right?    This mornings was during a high Sweet spot 2 x 20 – I felt terrible in the last 5 mins of the first effort, glugged a high carb drink and a gel in the recovery interval, and then on the second effort another 5-6 mins and I was all over the place and took the sensible option to stop, and spin it out for 10 mins cool down.   I did this last week with no dramas.

    The TTT in the week was exactly the same symptoms after 35 minutes at 3.8wkg average, although then dropped I managed to finish solo for the remaining 20 mins at 3.6wkg average.

    Edit:

    Life stress makes a lot of difference. Your wife was made redundant this week wasn’t she? Things like that add up.

    Thats for pointing that out, yes and I’m also having a shit time at work despite having Friday and Monday off.  That won’t have helped I guess.

    Supposedly 3:1 carbs:protein in the form of say chocolate milkshake helps recovery if taken within an hour of a training session.

    But generally, just avoid thinks that are bad for you, or at worst take them in very conservative moderation.

    I’m an absolute lightweight these days, I’m not sure if I’ve had a swig of any booze since Feb, a glass or bottle of something would likely make absolutely trolleyed and in no fit state to do anything the next day! 😆

    r8jimbob88
    Member

    I used to treat FTP tests as if they were the difference between life and death. I made sure I was tapered and ready to smash an effort of a lifetime.

    All that really meant was that yes, the FTP score was good but the subsequent training was hard as nails. Too hard. I became over trained.

    Whilst I still smash the hell out a test I don’t beat myself up over 10 watts or so.

    I’ve done structured training for a fair few years. This year I’ve just ridden for fun and without any real structure (still includes big efforts now and then). I’m fitter and stronger than I’ve ever been.

    Without knowing the exact details of what you’re eating I’d be surprised if if you’re bonking on such short sessions I see somebody mentioned Ketogenic – are you Keto ?
    I’d look at two issues here first which has been mentioned is ‘life’ this is difficult to measure but its impact on training & performance can’t be underestimated. There are ways in which you can counter act act this though & the most important & critical to all recovery is sleep. How many hours are you getting of actual sleep as opposed to what time are you going to bed are you staring at iPads etc just before drinking caffeine/alcohol ?
    The other is FTP P/wpkg obsession & variation. Yes FTP is the base measure for power performance but it’s not the only metric to use to improve or train to. Like I said I’m not sure what software you’re using to gauge your TSB etc but I’d suggest staying away from the threshold workouts look at doing some short FRC or even Pmax sessions add some variation. Recovery rides too by these I mean rides where you enjoy the freedom & ability to ride a bike and have fun.
    The good thing is you’ve seen the best option to take when you’re fatigued & not hitting numbers is stop, carrying on just creates more fatigue. With WKO there are optimised intervals with specific rep numbers to aim for EG let’s say an FTP intensive aerobic session the reps will be 1-4 so an minimum of 1 & a max of 4. If by the end of a rep you’re really struggling don’t aim to do another finish the session. Don’t let you’re ego get in the way better to get good data from less reps than junk from more.

    trail_rat
    Member

    The keto thing has to have been a joke.

    whitestone
    Member

    Kryton, I believe you are on TR. Their podcast has had a piece on overtraining fairly recently – just checked – episode 223. There’s also o bit about bonking in episode 261. They also stress the importance of rest and particularly sleep.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
    Subscriber

    Carbonfiend and Whitestone thanks for the insights.    I’m using Todays plan, am coached by Torq, now in my 3rd year, so quite educated in everything you mention but it never hurts to have reminders and other peoples insights.

    I’m not Ketogenic no, I was from November to Feb during Base which helped me shift the majority of that 8KG, but move to a balanced Carb/Protien diet in March to support higher efforts, and am periodised high carb now to support very high efforts.

    Sleep and stress has been a big issue over the last few weeks, I am in a high stress job made all the more relentless by the current situation and have been getting no more than 11pm to 4am waking up with my mind racing – I know thats not enough.

    Anyway last night I didn’t want more than 1 beer so used the “spare” calories having some natural; muesli and a extra recovery drink before  bed and for the first night for 2 week got 7hrs sleep.   After a balanced breakfast (muesli, 2 pieces wholemeal toast with Peanut butter) I’ve just come back from 2hrs MTB Z2 by HR & RPE with good carb support and really enjoyed the ride, my legs felt loose and – back on my race bike for specificity before the Gorrick 8hr at the end of the month – I feel pretty swift and flighty today despite the Z2.

    Hopefully a couple of nights good sleep and I’ll be better.

    👍 May I also suggest looking into some techniques for your stress as well, there’s plenty out there so spend some time researching it’s a win win outcome & I personally find my way of coping not only benefits myself as a person on & off the bike but also those around me. Also talk to your coach, a coach works best when you give them feedback about how you’re feeling and responding to the input they are prescribing you.

    petedee
    Member

    No type of nutrition is going to make up for much needed rest, but a combination of, certainly will. If you find yourself taking longer to recover, maybe it’s time for a week out before you smash into the over-training category. After all, the changes happen during recovery and rest. If you aren’t giving your body that time to recover, then it’s going to just get worse. I’m sure you’re well aware anyhow.

    I know the feeling. Some times you just want to ride more and harder but I’ve found when my training is up and my life is stressy, it can take longer to recover. Enjoy the rest, your body will thank you, especially given that there is a lack of racing this year. Enjoy a few big meals and a beer or two as well without worrying about calories etc. Training can become addictive at times and it’s good to break the cycle when you feel stagnant. I felt similar a few weeks back. Decided to take a week off road and MTB. Concentrated on other things and felt amazing afterwards.

    Good luck. The bikes will be around when you have a rest 😊

Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.