Happily I’ve just retired and looking for an adventure.

We are moderately well travelled having back backed Sri Lanka, Thailand, Uzbekistan among others.

So I thought why not go overlanding. Personal target destinations are getting to Bishkek (and beyond) and doing south America.

But how?

Two extreme options, both with advantages and disadvantages are :

1. Just backpack like we we’ve done in the past, but never for more than 5 weeks before . Set off by train keep going

2. Acquire an Overlanding truck and live in that for a few years.

I really fancy option 2 but I’m not sure I’m brave enough. An awful lot to learn.

Option 1 does mean we can easily break out at any time.

Has anyone here done or dream of something similar?

I both have dreams and have done similar in the past.

Its all about the compromises you want to make.  Having a vehicle can be great in many ways – but you are tied to that vehicle and that can be limiting.  Ie breakdowns can really cost you, you have to watch out for it being stolen, ferries are expensive, you often need a carnet de passage and it can be isolating in that its harder to meet locals and it can cause issues crossing borders outside of europe. South america can be a particular issue with this

Using local public transport can be time consuming and tedious – but puts you in the same places as locals, is usually much cheaper and can give you experiences you wouldn’t have otherwise like the time I ended up on a bus in Bolivia taking locals to the city to sell produce – that was interesting and funny.  I spent 6 weeks in Chile and Bolivia using public transport mainly.  Loved it

IN the planning for me is a visit to Canada this winter to see a pal and to fulfill some bucket list things.  That will be mainly local transport but possibly involve a bit of a road trip as well – probably in my pals car.  also a trip to Australia – that will be a road trip – time for a v8 ute, a mullet and flipflops to fit in.  Then on to NZ which will be by bicycle and possibly to Fiji and a few more pacific islands.

Between those two I fancy another long european bicycle tour

(Tick)

I’m already doing option 2 vicariously via YouTube (!) but would love to do a big Argentina & Chile road trip. Ive got a dog so public transport is not a likely option.

I’m not retired yet but I should be in a position to do some within the next 18 months max. If the cost of vans wasn’t so expensive AND I had access to a large workshop (I don’t) AND I was a handy mechanic/cabinet maker (I’m not) then I’d be building up a suitable vehicle.

I also really fancy Iceland and Norway, so I’ll need a LOT of spare cash if that gets serious…

The Kombi Chronicles on YouTube is a couple taking an old VW camper down  through South America.

Overlanding in Western Australia is extremely popular judging by the number and variety of vehicles I saw there – roof tents and trailers on a Ute in particular.

My dad did a few big overland trips with his partner. Some by bike, some backpacking. The last trip was driving a 4×4 to Cape Town. They both thoroughly enjoyed every trip but lots of challenges along the way.

He did write up his last trip which might be of interest

All done on the cheap. The rental of their house covered costs. Their bike packing kit needed to be seen. Basically a couple of those big laundry bags from the market slung over a pannier rack 🙂

Option 3 is go on an organised trip, bunch of companies like dragoman that do multi month overland trips

There’s a few tricky borders now. I don’t think you can easily cross from Turkey east anymore so your pretty much limited to either Russia or the Caspian crossing from Azerbaijan to Kazakhstan. Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan wonderful places and relative straightforward ish.

When we backpacked the other way we ran into various groups with a kind of convoy visa to cross the Chinese border. They could all travel separately but had to all cross the border together and on a specific day which seems slightly stressful. I think in China you might need a ‘guide’ to accompany you and generally smooth passage.

Without a vehicle opens up more options – we did Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, China (with a few days in Hong Kong to reset our visa), Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Iran finishing up with a flight from Tehran to Istanbul. Mix of trains (the Chinese high speed network is amazing and Uzbekistan had great sleepers) car( we had a guide and driver in Turkmenistan) and a few tactical flights (the wife wanted to go to Astana which is in the middle of sodding nowhere so we flew from Urumqi).

I’m rebuilding a £500 Volvo Xc90 for a Scandic roadtrip (Norway, Sweden & Finland).

We’ve previously done N.Africa and Europe in our Defender.

You dont need a big truck. They swallow money building them, carnets need a huge deposit and fuel costs are high. Thereis also a backlash against them in Norway due to the Insta wannabes trashing the place.

Check out Otto the Gwagen for inspiration.

The World’s Greatest Traveler: A 1988 Mercedes That Has Been to 172 Countries

if Youve only done a few weeks before, id spend 6months-a year doing your bucketlist,backpacking, and see how it goes from there. you might decide to stop and stay somewhere for years, and get into something else bigtime, like dirtbikes or diving.
See how you like the expat scenes, but keep somewhere you can return to so if it goes titsup you got something to go back to

I do like a bit of the randomiser when traveling.  NO fixed plans so you can change on a whim or depending on weather or whatever.  Some  folk don’t like that tho.  On my big bike ride I would decide each morning where I was heading that day although I did have a vague overall plan.

rigid adherence to a schedule I find stressful.  I much prefer to be able to change on a whim

I did Australia on a motorbike offroad about 20 years ago. Lots of stuff went wrong, but it was all part of the trip. When I look back, lots of the best bits and funniest memories were when things went wrong – breakdowns in the middle of the outback, crashes on Cape York. I ended up on a freighter in the Coral Sea, bike craned onto the fore deck, getting drunk with locals pretty much everywhere. running out of petrol in the bush. It was all great stuff and you couldn’t plan for any of it, so there’s little point in worrying (too much!)

I was on my own, and key for me was having a definite plan – I knew exactly where I wanted to go – and that kept me focused. I wasn’t so bothered about how long it took, but it was good to have a plan when things went to rats. I absolutely know it wouldn’t have been the same if I was with someone else.

Someone once said ‘adversity is not your enemy’, and they were damn right. Overcoming adversity is life affirming.

Whatever you do, it’ll be great. But you have to do it – I realised no one was going to come along and invite me on a trip like that, so I had to do it all myself or never do it

Something I have realised now I am older is that I actually enjoy being around my home and doing gardening, DIY projects and the like. When I go away for a few weeks, there is a tendancy to almost feel homesick, which is something I never experienced when I was younger or thought I would ever feel. The thought of a massive long time away now is not the same as it was. Perhaps something to bear in mind before committing to a massive adventure

Personal target destinations are getting to Bishkek (and beyond)

I have heard you can’t really freeball it through China – which is more or less the only thing beyond Bishkek.

There’s a lot of 4×4 porn online. You could get a Transit van or Subaru that will go 90% of places for 20% of the cost.

Incidentally, one of the best trips I ever read about was some guys doing the pan american  on FZ50’s. Cheap as chips, not gonna look like a long way round wannabe and when it all blows up, just walk away! What a tale to tell

When I go away for a few weeks, there is a tendancy to almost feel homesick, which is something I never experienced when I was younger or thought I would ever feel. The thought of a massive long time away now is not the same as it was. Perhaps something to bear in mind before committing to a massive adventure

A good point.  My bike bike ride had 3 points planned in where I could be home in a day or two if needed as a possible escape if my head blew up.  That why I stayed in Europe even tho I really want to go to other places.  I needed to see how I coped on my own first.  Having coped I now feel able to go further afield for my next trip without that safety net of being able to just turn and go home.

I would personally do opinion 2 but not in a big lorry Vehicle. Keep it small in a normal 4×4 rather than a truck so still stay in local hotel etc and camp some times but not as big to move about fuel etc. Also if you fancy a rest / break easier to find somewhere to store a 4×4 than a massive lorry.

Rent your hour put to help finance

I think I need a beer with your dad @nickjb.

Both clearly have their merits but for most of the world I think I agree with you @tjagain public transport is great. The trains we got in Sri Lanka and Thailand were such great fun. All the whooping going through the tunnels and the food that people shared with us was lovely.

And doing that option is clearly a lot simpler. Perhaps small steps and see where we end up as I too have bike packing trips in mind as well

I think I need a beer with your dad nickjb

Too late now unfortunately. The cape town drive was very much the last trip. Although it does press the importance of getting on with this sort of thing rather than just thinking about doing it.

as I too have bike packing trips in mind as well

Surely the obvious answer is to take your bike with you in your car/Sprinter/Unimog and then do shorter side trips by bike…

Retired? Own some red trousers? Bright blazer? Definitely option 1. I’d go full Portillo and take some decent travel books and ride as far as I can. Fly home. Based on current issues, that might need to avoid Russia, but see where you get to.

You need 4wd extremely rarely, possibly in a couple of really cold locations, but probably not even that. I’ve driven an old Volvo across the Sahara – there are paths to take because the locals don’t have 4wd. Sure a lady may have got stuck a little less, but where’s the fun in that?

I’d look for what’s likely to be plentiful in the locations you’re targeting. Africa? Old mercs and Peugeots. Eastern bloc? Lada. Etc.

Why be so rigid on the “how” when you could use all modes of transport?

Eg: Hire a car for short stints, buy a car or motorcycle to use in one country and sell when you leave, bus, train, bicycle, hitch, walk…. Just buy / use what ever options are available locally in that country and sell on as you leave.

Just mix it up as you go, surely this is the more spontainious and adventurous option?

Buying and selling cars in most countries I’d a beaurocratic nightmare, trying do manage it in a foreign language is a no go

I met a interesting couple in a campsite from NL, retired. They were just finishing their summer bike tour, short one that year only 8weeks as it included their daughters wedding but that was a their standard schedule. Summer bike tour for 2-3 months, usually Europe. Winter was backpacking somewhere warm and cheap. S.e.asia south / Latin America. A little cross over time in-between but mainly swapping between the two.

Incidentally, one of the best trips I ever read about was some guys doing the pan american on FZ50’s. Cheap as chips, not gonna look like a long way round wannabe and when it all blows up, just walk away! What a tale to tell

Try watching C90 Adventures on YouTube, although Honda C90s have gone up massively in price since I passed my test on one.

I think I might be able to add a little bit of content to this discussion as I’m currently having a coffee in Tbilisi as I plan the next stage of my over-landing trip. Plus  I’ve spent the last few days assisting a couple of Dutch friends with planning & logistics as they head to Bishkek, the Pamir and beyond on their touring bikes…..

Firstly, there is no right or wrong way of over-landing, it’s very personal, just find out what works for you and talk to people that are actually doing it right now.  The more time you have the better the experience. Keep your plans as flexible as possible, things are always changing. Borders, natural events, politics and public health emergencies will make you constantly reassess your plans. We had an earthquake on Sunday morning, luckily no-one was hurt and there was little damage but it was a reminder….

A few thoughts;

– A big overland truck is very sexy but due to its size of the things it will restrict you a lot. I’ve spoken to a few over-landers in big rigs whilst on my travels and they all state their trucks will be sold and something smaller would be much better. Plenty of over-landers are using a small 4×4 with a roof top tent – check out GrizzlyNBear on the tube.

– Cycling is a great way to over-land.!! It’s probably the best way meet the locals (my Dutch friends get invited to stay in the houses of local folks around 30 to 40% of the time! It’s a bit brutal though (for me) and my Dutch friends really enjoyed their time in Tbilisi and the modern things like washing machines, toilets, bars, showers & restaurants that serve great food. Cycling does give you huge flexibility.

– Backpacking is not for me as I would find it too restrictive and too slow but that’s because I know how & where I want to travel. For some, backpacking would be perfect, just a few weeks ago I met a lovely Aussie couple in Theth, Albania that had just retired and were backpacking around the Balkans. They were enjoying backpacking but they did have to get tour companies involved to assist with getting to areas they wanted to visit, it seemed quite a faff to me. Backpacking, like cycling needs to be lightweight, the lighter the better and luxuries are the first thing to ditch, I like a few comforts and so do many others…

– small 4×4 is perfect (for me)! It gives me total independence and I can get everything I need in the car. I have a roof top tent and this frees up space inside the car, plus the RTT is super comfortable. The car is small enough to allow me to travel on everything from mountain roads to freeways to small city streets. I can easily get my car on a ferry due to its size when compared to a motorhome. I have a 4×4 primarily for the extra grip,  I don’t go off road as you can get into some very serious stuff very quickly and if you’re not an experienced off-roader you could end up in big trouble.

– Motorhomes offer a good comprise as they have all the little luxuries to make a trip comfortable but the size puts me off and they’re a bit fragile.

– Converted vans are great and probably the most popular choice I’ve seen. They work well.

A couple of travel friends from Golders Green/Harrow have been travelling the same route as me in a very old Corsa, with a lightweight tent, tiny stove and not much else, they’re having fun but it’s a bit basic for me.

Costs will vary wildly depending on errr…. absolutely everything! Don’t underestimate fuel costs if you travel with your own vehicle.  Don’t plan too much as things can & do change. Unfortunately the Azeris have just announced they are keeping their land borders shut to at least Jan 24 so I will need to head south next (to the north is Tbilisi’s big angry neighbour, so that’s off the itinerary) and avoid Artsakh (Nagorno-Karabakh). Strangely you can enter Azerbaijan by air! I don’t think the Baku ferry is an option right now either. That pretty much rules out anywhere east of Georgia for me. My Dutch friends caught a flight from Tbilisi, over Azerbaijan and are now cycling across Qazaqstan.

I would say do it, just find a way that works for you and go, the experience will be amazing and the people you meet will be amazing! You will have some challenges but you will overcome them and that will add to the experience.

You’ll learn and adapt as you go along and before long travelling will feel ‘normal’.  Talk to the locals and say yes when you’re invited to join them.  I’ve been invited to have dinner and spend time with a lovely Iranian couple & their 2 young kids, to share a natural thermal bath with a group of Russians, Ukrainians & Georgians, all happily chatting about the world we live in. I’ve ended up in a tiny Albanian village, high in the mountains where the hospitality from the locals was embarrassingly generous plus many many more adventures too. I have also learned a lot about myself.

Wherever you decide to go there will be a WhatsApp group or Facebook group for that area or region, the amount of up to date info these resources can offer is invaluable and extremely relevant.

So MadBillMcMad, get planning and please keep this thread updated. If you have any other questions, ask away.

Option 3 is go on an organised trip, bunch of companies like dragoman that do multi month overland trips

I did that, went with Dragoman. Travelled overland from Mexico City to Panama City zigzagging through all the countries. Had great fun, it was back in 2007 and I was in my late thirties then.

I used to run trips doing 5 weeks in Morocco and 3 months down into West Africa, and once did 7 months trans-Africa Portsmouth to Cape Town in an old Land Rover 101 Forward Control.

We had it as we could carry 8 people with it, but i wouldn’t recommend one for 99% of overlanding as –

– They are very juicy on fuel

– It puts a barrier between you and the locals, it is difficult to sometime expect them to be friendly when you arrive in a huge truck looking down on them, it makes you look “superior” even if for UK standards you’re travelling on a tight budget

– As above carnet, ferries etc all become very expensive

If you do get go that route, i’d recommend making sure if it had a military life, painting it a bright colour and removing any signs of military use, it’s one thing looking superior, it’s another looking like you’re going to invade…

Personally for me, if you want a vehicle, i think small 4×4 and roof tent or a van, always thought it would be good to take a couple of folding bikes too, so you can ride into town easy or have a nose about on them.

But, most places in South America i’ve been to and even most places in Africa/ Asia have a decent cheap public transport network, and trains that would put many of UK’s to shame for sticking to timetables etc, as people use them a lot more, plus it forces you to meet people and you’ll see things you miss driving.

Really enjoying reading people’s ideas and thoughts.

@piha, some really interesting stuff there. Interesting you say the Baku ferry is no option at the moment, so I guess that means flying to go further east from Georgia assuming Russia and Iran are off the list.

I do like the roof tent idea. I also like the pickup with cabin idea. We came across one of these in France. Really well designed and the best use of space I’ve come across. https://www.tripandfish.fr/ but where could you put any bike remotely securely.

I keep changing my mind but I think I am leaning towards the back packing option as I think that would be best for India, Laos, Vietnam areas.

The Great Railway Bazaar (1975), a travelogue about a trip he made by train from Great Britain through Western and Eastern Europe, the Middle East, through South Asia, then South-East Asia, up through East Asia, as far east as Japan, and then back across Russia to his point of origin

Personally I always fancied doing something like Paul Theroux. Get up, shave and have breakfast. Walk to the local station and off you go. Come back months later, put kettle on and have a cup of tea

I suppose you know how popular laos wis/was with (dutch/french etc) cycle tourers?
Especially in the south. Thai roads are deadly, and since all the chinese lorries came into north laos (2010?) the main roads there have become terrible, but i dont know if they got to south laos, or if theres still loads of european cyclists on the back roads there.
As an expat in thailand, the visa rules were always changing, so every 3months/month/2weeks Id have to leave there for a new visa, so took advantage of airasia sales to explore the region,from mandalay to sulawesi etc

How about a UAZ452 if heading to the Urals and beyond? Should have fewer problems finding mechanics and spares compared to a western vehicle.

The problem with UAZs is that they have a certain retro flair, but they were shit from the first day. Ford was banging out Mondeos, Transits and Focuses in Russia for 20 years. Ditto Nissan and Toyota and Mercedes. I really don’t think parts are the problem.

Personally I always fancied doing something like Paul Theroux. Get up, shave and have breakfast. Walk to the local station and off you go. Come back months later, put kettle on and have a cup of tea

His kids were not so enthusiastic about that, to be fair…

Ultimate combination: LWB nondescript Transit or Hiace with internal bed and poptop + e-Bromptons. Change my view…

@MadBillMcMad – South east Asia sounds awesome! Do it..!! I personally wouldn’t rule out Nepal & India if I was backpacking.

The pick up with roof box in your link looks really good and LHD too I guess? I’m in a RHD vehicle and it’s fine TBH, lots of ex-UK & Japanese RHD cars on my travels. I didn’t look at the cost though……

Yep, to get further east from Georgia I need to get a flight. Even if I could cross the land border into Azerbaijan there is not a timetable for the ferry, it sails when the captain decides to leave Alat, AZ.  My cycling Dutch friends are able to get a visa to enter Iran (the border isn’t far from here either) but I believe it’s impossible for a British passport holder to get one at the moment which is a shame. To the north there is a good road to Vladikavkas, plus some minor roads into Dagestan…. maybe I’ll give them a miss!

If you do come this way I highly recommend spending some time in Georgia and especially Tbilisi, the people, the food, the wine and the scenery are all amazing. It’s a remarkable place to visit and the people are so so welcoming & generous, just the other day I was out in the countryside talking to someone and a random local stopped, looked at us and ran into the small shop and bought us all ice creams! Tbilisi is worth a visit alone, I’m going to stay here for a little while and enjoy the city for a while.

I did the overlanding thing down to Morocco in 2006 in a Landrover discovery with a roof-tent. I agree with the comments above re- big trucks – they look awesome but restrict where you can go, cost a fortune to run and God only knows what you’d do if you broke down/got stuck.

For two people travelling i’d say a typical Landcruiser/Patrol/Discovery sized 4×4 with a rooftent is perfect. Also i think twin-cab pickups can be ideal with the right roof-rack arrangement. You can take everything you reasonably need, and have the space to stock up on food/fuel/water when you think you’re going to be a few days between towns/cities. Smaller vehicles are easier to stash away in hotel carparks and/or leave somewhere for a few days if needed. You can also carry bikes and SUPs/Canoe/whatever.

For reliability i’d be looking at slightly older diesels – avoid anything with Common-rail injection, and loads of electronic Engine management. The quality of fuel gets pretty variable as soon as you leave Europe and modern diesel Engines are a bit fussy.

Keep the car pretty low-key. Loud graphics and shiny stuff just attracts the wrong sort of attention – a plain white vehicle blends in a little better.

Having said that most Moroccans seemed to do pretty well in old transits, merc estates, etc.

The LHD vs RHD choice was touched on above – for months on the road pootling around continental europe (and perhaps further) would it though be worth going LHD? Thinking more about small bendy mountain roads rather than overtaking, tollbooths etc.

The guys at IFHT have answered this:

Not retired but sat waiting for Santander ferry in my van with two bikes in the back. Taken 3 months off to do it.

Longest trip was 18 months backpacking before I felt the need to return but would only do it with a vehicle or bike now.

Fancy bike touring South America but may learn to ride a motorbike and do it that way.

Get a vehicle you or the locals can bodge and fix!