Viewing 23 posts - 1 through 23 (of 23 total)
  • over 25kmh on an ebike
  • Premier Icon MSP
    Subscriber

    After a few health problems over the past couple of years I have been thinking about getting an ebike, so that I can join back into group rides and try and regain some fitness. Mainly I need to boost for going uphills or maybe at the end of longer flat rides.

    I was looking at a gravel type bike, but the group I would be riding with would often be cruising at above 25kmh on flat sections, so it would concern me that rather than be a boost it would actually become a bit of an anchor at those speeds, and even below those speeds I would probably frequently like to ride unassisted on the flat.

    So what do modern ebikes ride like without power, is it really noticeable, is there any way to create a custom setting to just give a few % of assist to overcome the extra resistance caused by the motor? From what I have seen even eco mode seems to be too much assist for much of my flat riding.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Subscriber

    over 25 kph you have a heavy bike with a bit of extra drag. Many you can alter to make them illegal and to boost above 25kph.

    kerley
    Member

    Can you join a slow group when getting back into it and then move to a faster group if/when regained fitness?

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Subscriber

    gravel type bike

    I have been eyeing up an Orbea Gain for mrs_oab.

    It seems a great idea for a road/light gravel machine. Make it lighter through smaller battery and motor, at the cost of less ultimate boost and range. The LBS suggested that they’ve sold a few to folk who are doing 80+100km days in hills before running out of power.

    If you go faster as you suggested, you’d have a much lighter machine.

    Premier Icon threerock44
    Subscriber

    I wonder is the group really doing 25kph+ on totally flat sections, on knobbly-tired mountain bikes – that would be good riding. If those fast flat sections are really just a 1% downslope, then the ebike would probably barrel along fine. Definitely try to hire one for a day first.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    Are these road group rides and you’re just thinking a gravel bike would be more versatile?

    If so, I think you are right to be concerned.

    And given the price of these things, I think you’d be foolish to rely on illegal modification for your core usage of the bike.

    I’d want to get a demo myself before committing. My limited experience of riding with ebikes is that I could drop them on flat tarmac when riding a heavy enduro bike with soft tyres myself.

    And don’t start swooning, I’m only just above average fitness for a regular rider.

    I could drop them on flat tarmac when riding a heavy enduro bike with soft tyres myself.

    And don’t start swooning, I’m only just above average fitness for a regular rider.

    I don’t believe you.

    “My limited experience of riding with ebikes is that I could drop them on flat tarmac when riding a heavy enduro bike with soft tyres myself.”

    They’re not any slower than a normal bike on the flat – the motor drag is tiny so outweighed by small differences in tyre choices. And on the flat the weight is immaterial.

    But unless there’s an uphill gradient or a headwind any fit cyclist who’s in a pedalling mood will go faster than the cut-off. I commute the hilly way to minimise this.

    Premier Icon Jamze
    Subscriber

    So what do modern ebikes ride like without power, is it really noticeable, is there any way to create a custom setting to just give a few % of assist to overcome the extra resistance caused by the motor? From what I have seen even eco mode seems to be too much assist for much of my flat riding.

    To answer this bit, some bikes you can adjust the support (Shimano and Brose motors I think). But all have the 25kph cut-off for assistance.

    They ride like heavy bikes. Modern motors disengage, so very little motor drag to overcome, just the weight. My hardtail is 28lbs, the eMTB is over 50.

    Is your group a mix of MTB and gravel bikes? As people have said only way to tell for sure is demo or rent one for the day.

    Premier Icon OwenP
    Subscriber

    I’ve got a Fazua Evation motor in a mtb hardtail. It is customisable for power in each setting, straight power vs matching your effort, and cadence. You could tweak those, but above 25kph it’s all off, no opportunity to have a minor boost without a warranty-voiding mod.

    I went for the fazua as a lot of the terrain I ride on is “rolling” rather than winch/plummet. The subtle disconnect at the limiter was important to me, but above that you are on your own (in my case with extra weight and big sticky tyres!). I find it’s a hill assist around here, most of the fun and road stuff is at or over the limiter so the Fazua was my choice to minimise the cut off being obvious and any drag over that, as I don’t have enough local gravity to hide it.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    They’re not any slower than a normal bike on the flat

    My thinly disguised humblebrag was just to illustrate that 25kmh isn’t that fast, if I can out-strip un-modded ebikes on an enduro bike.

    Of course gravel ebikes will probably be easier to pedal beyond the limit than eMTBs, so perhaps it’s not that telling.

    I don’t believe you.

    I’m wounded.

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
    Subscriber

    I popped out onto a middling local climb the other day (on my road bike) right behind a guy on a full sus e-MTB. I kept up with him for about 2/3rds the climb, maybe 200m or so and then he just gradually pulled away. By keeping it at about 14mph, he was able to use the full whack of the motor but that was the limit that I could stay with him for, a comfortable rate on a road bike for that climb (and for me/my fitness) was maybe 12-13mph.

    Assuming that you’re using the power and gearing properly, e-bikes will destroy a non-powered bike on any reasonable climb. They’re less noticeable on very gradual gradients or insanely steep ones where the power is coming in fits and starts and the weight counts against it.

    On the flat, you’re up against the limit of the motor but 15mph is OK on a gravel bike. Less so on a road bike where you can frequently be cruising on a flat road at 18 or so and you get distracting moments where the motor comes in very briefly as the speed dips to 15 but then immediately cuts out again.

    kerley
    Member

    I wonder is the group really doing 25kph+ on totally flat sections, on knobbly-tired mountain bikes – that would be good riding.

    Yep, holding 16mph on flat off road is fairly good going, I assumed we were talking about road riding.

    If I am following an eBike on gravel I have to put quite bit of effort in to keep up with them and I would class it above ‘cruising along’

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    Is the real question how strong are the people the OP wants to ride with then?

    Premier Icon MSP
    Subscriber

    Can you join a slow group when getting back into it and then move to a faster group if/when regained fitness?

    Its just a group of friends who are all quite serious about cycling, not a club with different speed groups.

    I wonder is the group really doing 25kph+ on totally flat sections, on knobbly-tired mountain bikes – that would be good riding.

    Everybody would be on gravel/cyclocross bikes, this is in Germany, there is a lot of riding where you are mixing up good paved cycle paths, gravel paths, easy dirt paths with short bits of road, it is quite easy to exceed 25kph for a few km. 3/4 of these rides could be done on a road bikes, but gravel type bikes really improve the traffic free mileage you can do and is a far better tool than a full road bike.

    I am a big powerful bloke, riding on the flat has traditionally been a strength, a few years ago I would have gone to the front on the flater sections and dragged everyone along in my windshadow. That is probably not going to be happening anytime soon, but I still think it is when the paths head upwards where I really need the assistance, I could just do with not having any extra resistance on the faster flat sections.

    Premier Icon Jamze
    Subscriber

    From your description, my gut feel is you’d do better than you think. The motor will help get up to speed much quicker than the rest of the group. Negligible motor drag once it cuts out, and sounds like you could maintain a decent speed for a few km. Plus they’re mates, they won’t mind?

    Guy in the local road club uses an ebike, apparently it works pretty well in the steadier group rides. He did 60km on his birthday last week. He was 90!!!

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    Guy in the local road club uses an ebike, apparently it works pretty well in the steadier group rides. He did 60km on his birthday last week. He was 90!!!

    *likes*

    The regulations around eBikes seem like a missed opportunity to me.

    As a country we need to achieve a massive modal shift – principally to reduce congestion and improve air quality but also to improve health.

    A substantial modal shift could also have some significant economic benefits by reducing capex requirements for road maintenance and new road / rail /‘underground schemes.

    I’d like to see us really encouraging people to leave their cars at home – so I would:

    – allow a new class of non pedal eBikes that are limited to 15mph
    – allow a new speed pedelec class of eBike but require third party insurance
    – make both classes free of VAT.

    They ride pretty well with the motor off I think. We have a flat railway path I use to link stuff and on the ebike I switch the power off. I just find it a horrible feeling with the motor as it wants to accelerate you up to 25 then switch off. You get this jaggy power assist on flat as 25 is a fairly normal speed on the flat. It’s better to turn the power off and sit maybe a few kmph slower but smoother.

    I recently rode a bike with a different power profile that gave much less assistance but it was linked more closely to rider effort. It was chipped to 33kmph and that for me felt way more natural.

    towzer
    Member

    I ride with my motor off a lot (shimano 8000), e.g yesterday, 34 miles, didn’t use any battery bars (of 5), the shimano motor Reported as dragging but it’s got 2.8 Summer tyres so I don’t really notice the motor drag (my 2.5 mud tyres REALLY Add drag). You can adjust the power levels via an app, but I think other motor apps are more flexible.

    Have a look at fazua, reported as having no drag, smaller battery, less power than the ‘std bunch’ motors tho.

    I don’t believe you.

    I’m wounded.

    I’m just jealous. ,🥵
    I did 17.1mph average on my Anthem last month and was very pleased with myself. The idea of doing 15.5mph on my Enduro with big tyres is just ridiculous.

    Good going.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Subscriber

    There is a speedpedelec class in euro law – its just we never adopted it. IIRC 400W motors and 28mph limit. The provision is there in euro law and some countries have allowed them. Again IIRC you have to be over 18 not 14 an have to wear a helmet and carry insurance.

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