OT: Apple Mac user – BSOD often?

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  • OT: Apple Mac user – BSOD often?
  • zokes
    Member

    But I still need anti-malware etc …

    MBAM is free, as is MSE

    as I fear that they might have conflict with each other.

    Assuming all else is well (drivers etc), they won’t. They both play nicely on my creaking x64 Vista box, and that’s allegedly the worst OS MS made since Millennium!

    chewkw
    Member

    zokes – Member

    MBAM is free, as is MSE

    Yes, my friend’s Vista has both and they play nicely where as mine is Win 7 64bits … they hate each other.

    Lazgoat
    Member

    Have you ruled out a hardware fault? It’s been very hot recently, a poorly cooled machine will likely overheat and could BSOD. Check all fans are spinning up and working fine.

    I’ve got both Macs and a Win7 machine, both solid and sound for the last few years in terms of BSOD and Kernel panics.

    A faulty memory module could cause intermittent BSOD and is really quick to fix, but frustrating as you’ll mess around with software for weeks first.

    zokes
    Member

    Win 7 64bits … they hate each other.

    Well, they don’t on the copy of W7 x64 I have running on my mac

    chewkw
    Member

    Lazgoat – Member

    Have you ruled out a hardware fault? It’s been very hot recently, a poorly cooled machine will likely overheat and could BSOD. Check all fans are spinning up and working fine.

    Hardware seem fine with temp not exceeding 50C at anytime. Normal is 33-38C. Yes, all fan working and Corsair h50 watercool is fine too.

    A faulty memory module could cause intermittent BSOD and is really quick to fix, but frustrating as you’ll mess around with software for weeks first.

    No problem with memory module too. 🙁

    zokes – Member

    Well, they don’t on the copy of W7 x64 I have running on my mac

    Yes, looks like I am the only one getting problem … 😕

    Let’s if the virtual memory adjustment cures it … arrghhh … 😐

    retro83
    Member

    It does sound like a hardware fault.

    What does the BSOD say specifically? (The codes sometimes help track down the cause…) My guess would be a hardware fault, e.g. memory, overheating graphics card, duff power supply etc or buggy driver.

    As for Macs never ‘bluescreening’, it is cowpoo. You can also get the ‘spinning rainbow of shite’ where the cursor spins forever and you can’t click anything. If you have never seen those occur, you either are lucky, or just don’t use the computer that much.

    If you don’t believe me, search for ‘panic’ on any Mac discussion site:
    link

    That’s not to say Macs are bad, they’re not, but equally they’re not some marvellous wonderful world where everything ‘just works’.

    I’d consider replacing your RAM before you bin it. I’m no expert but a crash that regular sounds very much like a faulty RAM module (or a chipset failure on the motherboard).

    Given how easily and cheaply you could bash some fresh RAM in though, I’d try that first.

    W7 for 50 hours a week running all sorts here for four years on this box, never had a BSOD yet…

    retro83
    Member

    iamtheresurrection – Member
    I’d consider replacing your RAM before you bin it. I’m no expert but a crash that regular sounds very much like a faulty RAM module (or a chipset failure on the motherboard).

    Given how easily and cheaply you could bash some fresh RAM in though, I’d try that first.

    W7 for 50 hours a week running all sorts here for four years on this box, never had a BSOD yet…

    Just download and burn memtest86+ and leave it running over night.

    samuri
    Member

    I’m a very big fan of W7, great OS but IME it’s the third party drivers tyhat cause issues. I installed a piece of software that allowed me to print to a network shared printer which made it BSOD once a day, no obvious solution other than uninstalling and connecting the printer directly to the PC which made me a bit sad, I wanted the printer shared to everyone.

    Anyway, MBP, not had a kernel panic in over a year although if I put it to sleep while it’s playing a video from netflix or lovefilm it struggles to wake back up again. Quite often it’ll eventually shut itself down. Pausing the film first seems to fix that issue.

    Just download and burn memtest86+ and leave it running over night.

    Even cheaper 😉

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    Chewkw, I’ve received your md. I’ll take it to bits at work later and see what I can find.

    Corsair h50 watercool is fine too.

    You’re watercooling? So presumably you’re overclocking? Have you tried not doing that?

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    Ok, I’ve analysed the dump.

    The faulting process (in this case) is the Malwarebytes service, and the error is a memory management issue.

    Has it crashed since you reset the virtual memory setting? Because that could absolutely cause this issue, so you may have already fixed it.

    Failing that, if MBAM is failing with a memory issue, logically either MBAM is faulty or your RAM is. It would be interesting to compare other dumps to see if it’s always MBAM which falls over; could just be that it happened to be the process unfortunate enough to break the camel’s back this time.

    I’d run memtest+ as others have suggested to try and isolate / rule out down a faulty DIMM. Probably worth disabling the ‘pro’ realtime scan features of MBAM too, or even uninstalling it completely.

    chewkw
    Member

    Cougar – Moderator

    Ok, I’ve analysed the dump.

    The faulting process (in this case) is the Malwarebytes service, and the error is a memory management issue.

    Has it crashed since you reset the virtual memory setting? Because that could absolutely cause this issue, so you may have already fixed it.

    Hi Cougar,

    Thank you for your help. Highly appreciated.

    No, no overclocking at all. Standard. I bought Corsair H50 thinking to learn to overclock my system but that was prevented due to BSOD.

    So far so good after I have set the virtual memory to “System Manage” for all partition. That should be more than enough.

    Failing that, if MBAM is failing with a memory issue, logically either MBAM is faulty or your RAM is. It would be interesting to compare other dumps to see if it’s always MBAM which falls over; could just be that it happened to be the process unfortunate enough to break the camel’s back this time.

    Yes, it either MBAM or MSE when it fails every time or most of the time. At the moment I have MBAM on Real-time(trial) and MSE on Real-time. I have paid license for MBAM too so if it works, after adjusting virtual memory, then I will use my paid version again.

    MBAM(Trial with Real-time) and MSE(Real-time) are both playing nicely at the moment.

    I’d run memtest+ as others have suggested to try and isolate / rule out down a faulty DIMM. Probably worth disabling the ‘pro’ realtime scan features of MBAM too, or even uninstalling it completely.

    Yes, will try memtest+ this evening.

    I want to keep MBAM if I can with realtime since I paid for it and the internet is full of nasties …

    🙂

    p8ddy
    Member

    chewkw…

    It might be the disk controller on your ASUS motherboard that’s the issue. ASUS were using a recently retired SATA controller that’s notorious for causing issues. I’ve had long standing issues with my ASUS mobo’d i7 system. THe only way I’ve been able to resolve is is move all devices off the onboard SATA 6gb/raid controller.

    I’ve been a mac and PC user for many many years, but I’m now switching solely to OSX. The reason? Too many drivers required for Windows. When they work it’s great, and MS had a great idea in trying to move from kernel mode drivers, but third party drivers (and frequently ones from ATI) can be awful.

    Moving to mac means you’ll get less say ultimately in the hardware you get, but it’ll be good quality and the limited driver set means you’ll have far less device i/o issues.

    In all my time owning macs, I’ve had one kernel panic, and that was on my old ‘Leaf Blower’ g4 (about 8 years ago, maybe longer). I’ve had several Macs since and no kernel panics FFIW.

    chewkw
    Member

    p8ddy – Member

    chewkw…

    It might be the disk controller on your ASUS motherboard that’s the issue. ASUS were using a recently retired SATA controller that’s notorious for causing issues. I’ve had long standing issues with my ASUS mobo’d i7 system. THe only way I’ve been able to resolve is is move all devices off the onboard SATA 6gb/raid controller.

    I am not setting it up as RAID system but checking the’Event Viewer’ I do have a “The driver detected a controller error on \Device\Harddisk2\DR2” I think I am not using the raid controller … can’t remember now. (p/s: I think one of them is plug into the Raid Controller … argghhh)

    I’ve been a mac and PC user for many many years, but I’m now switching solely to OSX. The reason? Too many drivers required for Windows. When they work it’s great, and MS had a great idea in trying to move from kernel mode drivers, but third party drivers (and frequently ones from ATI) can be awful.

    Yes, that’s what I am thinking … drivers etc don’t really want to play nicely with each other at times.

    Moving to mac means you’ll get less say ultimately in the hardware you get, but it’ll be good quality and the limited driver set means you’ll have far less device i/o issues.

    I am not that bothered at the moment so long as it works …. anything that works is better than my BSOD put it this way.

    In all my time owning macs, I’ve had one kernel panic, and that was on my old ‘Leaf Blower’ g4 (about 8 years ago, maybe longer). I’ve had several Macs since and no kernel panics FFIW.

    Glad to hear that as I am really thinking about having one as a backup. This year I had so many panic attacks (real not Mac related) because my pooter kept giving me BSOD during the work deadline … arrghhh …

    Premier Icon gofasterstripes
    Subscriber

    Memtest will run from USB.

    I think it comes as Standard on Ubuntu, D/L it, grab Unetbootin – use UNB to make a bootable USB from your ISO, boot from that and select memtest.

    LET IT RUN OVERNIGHT….

    Has anyone suggested resetting the RAM timings? If memtest fails and KEEPS failing no-matter what you do with the RAM position etc, try Load Optimised Defaults etc in BIOS in case your RAM timings are wrong.

    Check back if you are going to do that.

    chewkw
    Member

    gofasterstripes – Member

    Memtest will run from USB.

    Will do that tomorrow.

    Good news is that in the Event Viewer I only have 1 error now rather double digits … not less than say 25 on a normal day when boot up.

    The error is as below:
    ———————————————
    System
    – Provider
    [ Name] Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-EventTracing
    [ Guid] {B675EC37-BDB6-4648-BC92-F3FDC74D3CA2}
    EventID 3
    Version 0
    Level 2
    Task 2
    Opcode 14
    Keywords 0x8000000000000010
    – TimeCreated
    [ SystemTime] 2013-08-06T19:58:04.666805600Z
    EventRecordID 298
    Correlation
    – Execution
    [ ProcessID] 4
    [ ThreadID] 168
    Channel Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-EventTracing/Admin
    Computer … me …
    – Security
    [ UserID] XXX
    – EventData
    SessionName Microsoft Security Client OOBE
    FileName C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Microsoft Security Client\Support\EppOobe.etl
    ErrorCode 3221225485
    LoggingMode 5
    ———————————————-

    Any idea how to deal with the above error …? The last one to deal.

    🙂

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    7 years of mac usage and never had a BSOD, that is by definition a Windows feature. I have had the occasional application crash but never the machine.

    chewkw
    Member

    Looks like Mac is winning hand down when it comes to BSOD … 😯

    I guess I have to make a choice of not putting all eggs in one basket by having two different types of computer … OS & OSX …

    Premier Icon benji
    Subscriber

    Never had one, been over 6 years on my iMac now and it’s still as good as the day I bought it.

    retro83
    Member

    jambalaya – Member
    7 years of mac usage and never had a BSOD, that is by definition a Windows feature. I have had the occasional application crash but never the machine.

    No, it’s just a Windows term for a kernel panic, which you will find on every OS kernel, OSX/Darwin, Linux, *BSD, HURD, NT, QNX, AmigaOS etc.

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    @retro, it was posted a little tongue in cheek. All I can say in 25 years of dos/windows machines I had more crashes in a month than in the last 7 years of macs

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    FileName C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Microsoft Security Client\Support\EppOobe.etl

    [list][*]Disable the Microsoft Anti-Malware Service in Services, then reboot.[/*]
    [*]Delete this file and reboot; MSE will recreate it.[/*]
    [*]Re-enable the service and set it to Auto.[/*]
    [/list]
    Seems odd that MSE and MBAM are both having problems. I might be inclined to run an online AV scan just to get a second – er, third – opinion on whether you’ve got some sort of infection.

    Windows Updates all up to date yeah?

    EDIT – ooh, I got lists to work.

    retro83
    Member

    jambalaya – Member
    @retro, it was posted a little tongue in cheek. All I can say in 25 years of dos/windows machines I had more crashes in a month than in the last 7 years of macs

    Okay, but just because you’ve been lucky enough to avoid them doesn’t mean they don’t happen. I refer you to my earlier link:

    link

    Also you need to bear in mind that you are lumping old Windows/DOS releases in there too. Try running classic Mac OS for a while, see how stable you think Macs are then 😆 You need to be looking at 7 and 8. To be honest, for a 12+ year old OS, XP isn’t doing too badly either. Compare to 10.1 for instance 😆 Failing to resume from sleep, kernel panics, spinning rainbow bawbag of doom will become familiar pretty quickly. Same as windows really, some good releases, some lemons, some showstopping bugs, etc.

    I’d personally say software wise, they are slightly more reliable, partly due to the limited range of hardware it needs to support but anyway it’s not as huge a difference as some make out. Though of course, you can fix any OSX issue by repairing permissions 😆

    chewkw
    Member

    Cougar – Moderator

    FileName C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Microsoft Security Client\Support\EppOobe.etl

    Disable the Microsoft Anti-Malware Service in Services, then reboot.
    Delete this file and reboot; MSE will recreate it.
    Re-enable the service and set it to Auto.

    I will do this later on but so far everything is working fine. The Microsoft support says let it be. i.e. nothing to worry about. 😯

    Seems odd that MSE and MBAM are both having problems. I might be inclined to run an online AV scan just to get a second – er, third – opinion on whether you’ve got some sort of infection.

    Windows Updates all up to date yeah?

    EDIT – ooh, I got lists to work.

    Yes, seems odd but then it’s only 1 error now rather than gazillion I normally get when booting-up.

    I am sure there is no malware as I have scanned with MBAM, MSE, Microsoft Safety Scanner, Microsoft Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool and MBAM Anti-rootkit. All clean.

    Yes, Windows updates all up-to-date.

    🙂

    superfli
    Member

    chewkw, I would check your memory is on the qualified vendor list (QVL) for your motherboard. When I built my current PC, I suffered from regular BSODs and realised my mem wasnt on the list for my model. Changed it and havent had a BSOD since (2years, on 24×7)

    Example for my Asus board: http://support.asus.com/QVL.aspx?SLanguage=en&p=1&m=M4A785TD-V%20EVO&hashedid=fcsXWSxnhzZE9rnR

    Managed to sell my old mem to a mate, who its fine with.

    chewkw
    Member

    superfli – Member

    chewkw, I would check your memory is on the qualified vendor list (QVL) for your motherboard. When I built my current PC, I suffered from regular BSODs and realised my mem wasnt on the list for my model. Changed it and havent had a BSOD since (2years, on 24×7)

    Yes, before I bought the MOBO I check for compatibility.
    Mine is Corsair CMX … which is on the list.

    As I am typing this my system hang … 😡

    I thought I have solved the problem but looks like I have not.

    😯

    p/s: the system hang is caused by MBAM just now so I had to reboot … arrghhh …

    Mrs Toast
    Member

    My iMac used to hang constantly. Apparently they shipped that particular iteration with a shonky OS that was completely incompatible with all the printer and scanner drivers of the time, and it had to be extensively tweaked through the extensions manager to make it even remotely usable. Made it more stable, but still a bit ropey. I’ve genuinely had more crashes and hangs on that one iMac than on all the PCs I’ve used ever since combined. :/

    Premier Icon gofasterstripes
    Subscriber

    Extensions manager? Was that OS 9?

    chewkw
    Member

    Mrs Toast,

    That’s unheard of until now.

    😯

    Premier Icon gofasterstripes
    Subscriber

    No it’s not, the guts of the Classic OS were about 20 years old and crashed if you looked at it funny.

    Mrs Toast
    Member

    It was OS 8.6, on the 2nd gen iMac (about ’99, I think?). Worst thing was it was the super posh top version, with a DVD drive and everything! Absolute pig of a machine.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    p/s: the system hang is caused by MBAM just now so I had to reboot … arrghhh …

    I’d uninstall it, even if it’s just temporarily as a troubleshooting step, see if that cures your problem. Then, go back to MBAM for support on the software you’ve paid for, or pursue a refund.

    You said you’d run scans, but that might be for naught if your AV is SNAFUed by an infection. That’s why I suggested an online scanner.

    Premier Icon gofasterstripes
    Subscriber

    Sorry to hear that Mrs Toast, must have been very disappointing.

    I still have one of those, running 10.2.

    S_______L_______O_______W________L________Y

    down in Cornwall.

    TBH it fits right in. Kernow bys vyken!

    Mrs Toast
    Member

    Sorry to hear that Mrs Toast, must have been very disappointing.

    It haunts my dreams.

    Although to be fair, it probably would have been fine if I didn’t want to use a graphics tablet, printer, scanner or zip drive…

    chewkw
    Member

    Cougar – Moderator

    p/s: the system hang is caused by MBAM just now so I had to reboot … arrghhh …

    I’d uninstall it, even if it’s just temporarily as a troubleshooting step, see if that cures your problem. Then, go back to MBAM for support on the software you’ve paid for, or pursue a refund.

    You said you’d run scans, but that might be for naught if your AV is SNAFUed by an infection. That’s why I suggested an online scanner.

    Thanks Cougar for your advice. Highly appreciated. 😀

    Yes, just did an Online scan as advised.
    It crashed half way through the 1st scan with BSOD … surprise, surprise. 😆
    I then tried it again in SafeMode with Network and downloaded latest definition and this time it managed to scan. Found two: Win32/Bundled.Toolbar.Ask Application, but nothing serious as I did not even installed one of them. So deleted them. The Toolbar.Ask is harmless. Apart from that nothing else is found.

    After that I check the Event Viewer to see what cause the BSOD with Online Scan … lo and behold! … it conflicted with other Anti-software I have real-time. 😆

    I am keeping MBAM but I think I will not enable the Real-Time protection (I do have the paid Pro version too by the way) to see how it goes … arrgghh … the Real-Time protection trial is going to end in 3 days.

    I have a feeling that I will see Mac Mini on my desk in few weeks time … arrghhh … but will still keep messing with this one.

    I am really fed up with all those virus/malware and anti-software that I need to install with Microsoft. Well, if there is no conflict I will stick with Microsoft but for now a major headache.

    😯

    p/s: Mrs Toast what are you using now? PC or Mac?

    retro83
    Member

    did you run memtest?

    And just remove all the anti-virus/malware software completely for now. Check if it’s stable, then reintroduce things one at a time until the problem reoccurs.

    chewkw
    Member

    retro83 – Member

    did you run memtest?

    And just remove all the anti-virus/malware software completely for now. Check if it’s stable, then reintroduce things one at a time until the problem reoccurs.

    Haven’t done the memtest yet because I need to find a spare USB stick … 😕

    I cannot remove all the anti-software as I need to use it urgently in the next few days so will leave it on for now except perhaps disable the real-time protection on MBAM.

    😥

    Mrs Toast
    Member

    p/s: Mrs Toast what are you using now? PC or Mac?

    PC, both at work and at home. Never had any real problems with any of them, with the exception of an exciting RAID failure on one of my elderly work PCs. Nowt was lost though. \o/

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    You know,

    It’s common knowledge that MSE and MBAM play well together; however, in hindsight I wonder if that’s just in relation to the free version.

    Generally, AV products can’t co-exist, as you’ve got two pieces of software trying to do the same thing. You can end up with race conditions where one quarantines a file, the second quarantines the quarantined file, the first re-quarantines the file back again and so on until your PC dies on its arse. </oversimplification>

    Logically then, that’s the case here. You’ve got two pieces of software both trying to do real-time scanning. I don’t know if this is actually true or not as I’m making it up, but I’d bet dollars to doughnuts that if you were to remove MSE then your problem would go away.

    (And of course, disabling the real-time MBAM component would do the same thing, but that’s not really the point I’m making…)

    chewkw
    Member

    Cougar – Moderator

    You know,

    It’s common knowledge that MSE and MBAM play well together; however, in hindsight I wonder if that’s just in relation to the free version.

    Yes, most people talk about the free version without real time protection so no conflict there. But then there are many that also say no conflict using both … arrghhh … I know one is Anti-virus while the other is Anti-malware doing different things. Some even suggested that even when they are different they do overlap each other at times. arrgghhh … 😡 Bloody software.

    Generally, AV products can’t co-exist, as you’ve got two pieces of software trying to do the same thing. You can end up with race conditions where one quarantines a file, the second quarantines the quarantined file, the first re-quarantines the file back again and so on until your PC dies on its arse. </oversimplification>

    Yes, that make sense but then I never seen anything be quarantined which is odd …

    Logically then, that’s the case here. You’ve got two pieces of software both trying to do real-time scanning. I don’t know if this is actually true or not as I’m making it up, but I’d bet dollars to doughnuts that if you were to remove MSE then your problem would go away.

    Yes, both real-time so I am planning to disable MSE real-time protection rather than MBAM. I cannot remove MSE because Windows Defender will appear in it’s place and the problem will continue.

    (And of course, disabling the real-time MBAM component would do the same thing, but that’s not really the point I’m making…)

    I prefer the real-time protection of MBAM more than MSE, so will disable the MSE realtime protection to see how it goes.

    🙂

    chewkw
    Member

    D’oh! When I disabled MSE real-time protection I kept getting Action Centre pop up telling me I was at risk. Very annoying.

    So I now enable MSE real-time protection but instead disable real-time protection from MBAM … 😐

    oh ya … pc is fast at the moment. No problem with speed.

    Premier Icon gofasterstripes
    Subscriber

    If you can stay off the internet with it, you can probably disable both. [unless you actually think you have a virus]

    Also – you can run memtest from a CD/DVD or Ext. HDD. It’s just a waste to write a 1mB file to a CD or DVD.

    chewkw
    Member

    gofasterstripes – Member

    If you can stay off the internet with it, you can probably disable both. [unless you actually think you have a virus]

    Also – you can run memtest from a CD/DVD or Ext. HDD. It’s just a waste to write a 1mB file to a CD or DVD.

    Unfortunately, I need to use the internet to communicate with others in other part of the world. Part of my job. Everything is internet nowadays.

    Yes, will definitely try memtest on Saturday as I have urgent matter to deal with in the next two days. arrghhh …

    At the moment it’s conducting itself nicely without fighting with each other internally (MSE vs MBAM) 🙄

    Internet surfing speed is also fast. :mrgreen:

    How long this will last I do not know. 😐

    Premier Icon gofasterstripes
    Subscriber

    Dude – you’ve got to run Memtest! I’d guess you have a memory error -it’s free, man, why not?

    SMART is Self-Monitoring, Analysis and Reporting Technology and allows you to tell if your hard drive is about to fail. It is not infallible, but an extended test can be run for free by several programs. It’s worth checking as failing hard drives can load or save corrupt data and bugger the PC up. Usually you’ll find it just hangs as the drive as the drive fails to read a sector and the PC waits for that ’till you loose patience and restart.

    However, sometimes other funny issues pop up with a failing HDD so it’s worth running a test even if only to rule it out.

    Try this in Windows. Download and install Speedfan then head over to the SMART tab and run extended tests on your drive(s). I usually also read the report, which is where it sends the test data to a website which gives you a more intelligible interpretation of the jargon returned. If nothing fails, I wouldn’t get worried about it, but it might show up your problem. You can also use it to monitor and graph your various sensor temps*.

    It’s the same with Memtest+ – you need to eliminate things at this point.

    If it’s neither of these I’d be guessing PSU as next most likely.

    *Some mobo temps may be higher than you expect, my EX58 board has the chipset up to 80. Well it did ’till I removed the stupid decorative sticker that covered most it. Thanks Gigabyte, really well thought out. 🙄

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