a moped yesterday …… note the pedals

scooter

A mate of mine from our Club bought one of these back from France, it’s a Solex, anyway he thought he’d be able to ride it without a helmet until Plod got hold of him. Seems in France you can ride it without a helmet as it’s under some CC or other.

in most of mainland you can ride under 26kph without a helmet, licence , mot , tax or insurance

im in holland atm and some of the contraptions they have are mental

but they have the cycle path infrastructure to allow it(and the rules in place to stop folk cluttering up the roads with them). in the uk it would be chaos

in the uk anything that goes over 15mph under its own speed or via a combustion engine needs tax and insurance.

TandemJeremy – Member
despite averaging 75mph on a roads

is that a boast or a confession 🙄

either or both – surprised it took so long for someone to pull me up 🙂

TandemJeremy – Member
surprised it took so long for someone to pull me up

standards are slipping 😉

Its hard for me to think of anyway acceleration helps unless you have already put yourself in a dodgy position

Accelerating and braking are exactly the same thing. The only difference is one has a + infront the other a -. Changing your speed or changing your direction are the same too. All of them allow you to put yourself on a different piece of road than you would have been otherwise. Which is pretty handy if you want to avoid things which are also moving.

I love scooters. **** all chance I’d ride them outside London though. Unless it was a Honda monkey bike 8)

Accelerating and braking are exactly the same thing

Not at all. Braking REMOVES energy from the system, accelerating ADDS it. So you end up going faster. If I brake hard eventually I’ll stop. If I accelerate hard I’ll end up doing 100mph. Accelerating results in more speed and hence more risky situations could transpire.

Traffic is expecting (on the whole) people to suddenly stop or slow down – it’s what happens, we are (or should be) prepared for it, it’s legitimate. Traffic is less likely to be expecting a motorcyclist to suddenly open the taps and come hooning through some shrinking gap.

Just a thought.

Molgrips – and it matters not one jot what traffic is thinking – the only thing that matters is the safety of the motorcyclist.

I think it DOES matter what traffic is expecting. In driving in general, and cycling, it really helps to know what people are expecting, and how to fit in with those expectations. I avoid a lot of situations that could be tight or risky by predicting what other people will do.

I am always thinking about what other people will be thinking. In life, and on the roads 🙂

Molgrips – and here is where your lack of knowledge of motorcycling lets you down. On a bike you always assume no one has seen you and you know that no one in a car has the slightest idea of the capabilities of a motorbike.

I don’t care if I surprise you – all I care about is being safe. Because you and others have no idea of the capabilities of a motorcycle you will often be surprised by completely reasonable manoeuvres

But TJ, surprising other drivers is inherently not safe, surely?

Safety and anticipation go hand in hand, surely too goodness? I’m not against surprising people out of courtesy, it’s specifically a safety thing.

Not at all. Braking REMOVES energy from the system, accelerating ADDS it

Hitting things is the problem. Scrubbing off 50mph and crashing at 20mph may be better than crashing at 70 but accelerating to 80 and not crashing at all is far better.

You lose a lot of control while braking on a motorcycle. Oddly accelerating often gives you more control.

Braking is often the worst thing you can do on a motorbike, particularly in a corner.

Ok 5e, all fair points but you just said braking and accelerating were the same, and now you just said they’re not. Which was my point 🙂

You lose a lot of control while braking on a motorcycle. Oddly accelerating often gives you more control.

Now, stuff like this makes me even more convinced that motorcycling is inherently more dangerous than driving.

Molgripos – you don’t understand – sorry.

Its been pointed out to you over and over again. You have no idea of the capabilities of a motorcycle so I could be doing a perfectly reasonable and legal manoeuvre and still surprise you.

Its safer to get the manoeuvring out of the way quickly – if that suprises the car driver so be it.

TJ I am not talking about motorbikes now. Surprising other people is bad. It may be the lesser of two evils in some particular situation, but it’s still bad. No matter if you are driving or walking or anything else potentially risky.

End of, now lets move on.

Molgrips – you really need to ride a bike to understand this.

suppose I had two ways of doing a manoeuvre – one does not surprise the car driver, the other will but has greater safety margins – I take the one with greater safety margins everytime.

Now, stuff like this makes me even more convinced that motorcycling is inherently more dangerous than driving.

I think the lack of the steel cage, crumple zones and air bags would have been more of a clue! 😯

You should have a look at those bicycle things though. Lycra and comedy lumps of polystyrene balanced on your head. Makes motorbikes look safe.

I’ll read the last 3 pages properly later, maybe…. But I’ve had a skim through.

FLOW:
Stability. Yes, a bigger wheeled bike may be more stable (And it may not) but stability isn’t necessarily what’s needed! Scooters generally turn faster and in traffic, that’s what you DO want! 🙂

Like I said, anti-scooter bias and no idea what you’re on about! 😛

flow
And for the record, a scooter is a moped.

No it’s not.

Moped/Scooter classification

A 50cc scooter is also technically a moped. Pedals have nowt to do with it.
A 50cc trail bike is also technically a moped. Gears have nowt to do with it
A 50cc sports bike is also tecnically a moped. Style has nowt to do with it.

I scooter can be a moped, and a moped can be a scooter, but one don’t necessarily follow the other!
Mopeds are 50cc things you can ride on a car license, basically, and these days there are more 125cc+ ones than 50s, probably!

Lycra and comedy lumps of polystyrene balanced on your head. Makes motorbikes look safe

Next time I feel I can’t brake so I have to gun it to 80mph through a narrowing gap on my MTB I’ll bear that in mind 🙂

I’m acutely aware of this at all times – perhaps from cycling – and I’ve always found braking to be far more effective at keeping oneself out of a blind spot.

I suspect that having the power on tap tempts one to use it, when braking would do just fine.

When conversely, in a forum thread it seems your favoured method of getting out of a situation is definitely not to slow, but to keep moving forward.

To avoid falling into a blind spot, you can generally do it in two ways. One is to fall back and risk a situation where the other driver continues to be oblivious to your presence. The other is to move forward, out of their peripheral vision and into their direct line of sight, thus doing everything you can to ensure they see you.

The first option, slowing, also has the potential to close the distance between yourself and following traffic. A rear end shunt on a motorcycle isn’t a bent bumper and a phone call to the insurance company. It’s straight to hospital after being skittled across the tarmac.

Being stuck in a tight spot on a motorcycle is different to being stuck in a tight spot in a metal box. And the solutions are accordingly different. On two wheels, trying to make yourself as visible to everyone while still acting as if you are invisible is a good way to stay safe.

As you should well know from being a cyclist and a driver, there is no one solution to fit every situation. Anyone acutely aware of their actions on the road at all times will know this. Accepting, and being capable of adapting to the infinitely variable situations around us proves most helpful in staying safe. Closing ones eyes to a potential method of avoiding trouble simply removes one option we have at our disposal.

So a situation arises around you, and there’s clear road ahead you can get safely into? Go get into it. Being behind a problem means you’re at the mercy of it as it unfolds and your safety is dictated by the actions of others. But if you have the flexibility to put trouble well behind you, you can have more control of your safety and not have to rely on others. Relying on the skills of those we share the road with is the best way to get into trouble.

Sometimes it’s safer to slow, yes. But despite what you’ve always found – an opinion formed only of your own experiences, and I’m yet to meet a man that has experienced everything the roads have to offer – sometimes it is safer to move forward.

No doubt I’m wrong, somehow, on some technicality or semantic detail, but it’s the last post from me on this (off) topic. So on the winding road which is this thread I’ll step on the brakes and drop back, using your favoured driving method, and hope for the best. We’ll see how that goes.

My apologies to the OP for contributing to the irreverent arse wiping all over your thread.

I’ve often found myself in a blind spot, and considered accelerating through it (and done it a few times too) – but then I wonder what would happen if they choose that moment to change lanes and I back off. By which I don’t mean slam on the anchors.

But anyway, someone please close this as I apparently can’t help myself.

Righto. I’ve read a bit more now. Let’s clear this bit up and put it to bed, shall we?

To which PP said

That’s mid information at best, poor advice would be a better description.
Please tell me
A) how many miles you’ve done on scooters (I’ve done a good 20000-30000 at the very least, and probably 150000 on motorbikes)
B) why a 125 bike is any safer based on your knowledge

I get sick of anti scooter bias by people that don’t know a thing about them.

My reply

Because generally they accelerates quicker, stops quicker, have bigger wheels so are a lot more stable, they can go faster so you are not always being overtaken – which is dangerous.

I was comparing engine size, like for like, so 125cc bike vs 125cc scooter etc. I might not have been too clear though. Sorry if not.

That said, lets compare a 50cc scooter and a 125cc bike for a minute.

Would you STILL like to tell my why ‘faster’ = ‘safer’ ?
Becasue I’m fairly sure that you’ll be less likely to crash at 30mph, than you will be at 70mph……and if you do it won’t hurt as much, will it?
I’ve ridden a 50 round town. It was fine. I see no reason why not to get one if you spend all your time in 30 & 40 limits.
——————————-
Back to same size engines, 125 vs 125.

Why is a bike ‘safer’ than a ‘scooter’? Scoots turn and stop on a sixpence. Mine has the same cross section front tyre as my Ducati for example!(120)
THIS is the anti-scooter bias I mentioned, becasue you’ll probably come out with an OPINION (based on zilch) and present it as FACT.

And I’ll tell you right now, there is **** all difference to all intents and purposes between the two, apart from image and best primary use.
Having run 3 125cc bikes and 4 scooters, primarily as commuters, I’ll tell you for free that scooters:
Do the job better
Are more comfortable
Are cheaper to run
Are FAR better in traffic

This is why I still have one (Vespa GT200) but most ‘bikers’ are blinkered and sneer at them becasue they aren’t big and tough and loud and impressive and are for girls and kids.
I can live with that, but the bullshit and predjudice does annoy me sometimes!

I still wounldn’t touch (Another…) Peugeot scooter though. They are a bit shonky.

oh my days what has happend i leave for 1 day and it turns into a bitchfest
end of the day
1.scooter/moped its just a clasification deal with it
2.a 50cc will do fine for the short trip o/p is sugesting**
3 de-restriction IS legal as long as over 17,license allows and ins are told
4.Peugeots are fine but there are better out there but cost more(se other posts)

**but a 125 would be better as once u get on ul get the bug
good luck to the o/p sifting through all this.

I think it’s true to say that the law does not recognise the term scooter, in essence it’s a style of motorcycle and/or moped as far as that goes. Though where the dividing line between scooters, scooterettes and other sub-categories lies has been debated elsewhere but seems to lie in the hands of manufacturers’ marketing departments.