The CBT is a (slightly odd) christmas pressie for her and maybe look at the wheels next year once she has done the test.
TJ the cost of insurance and clothing can be easily offset by the savings I will make in fuel not being a taxi!

Cool – its just don’t forget them. Decent set of armoured waterproofs, decent FF helmet, gloves and boots can be several hundred. HeinGerike are good value and have womens stuff

Isn’t a moped anything restricted to 30 mph?

It’s only 8 miles, swat bicycles are for!

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/LearnerAndNewDrivers/RidingMotorcyclesAndMopeds/DG_10016249

Flow was right 🙂 TJ are you being an augmentative thistle ass again?

How was flow right?

Would anyone care to explain why being able to accelerate faster is safer?

Accelerating out of trouble is virtually impossible in my experience unless you have an extremely powerful car. Braking is much much safer.

If you agree that it’s possible to accelerate out of trouble in an extremely powerful car, you appreciate the benefits of accelerating out of trouble.

Even modest, mid range commuter motorcycles provide supercar levels of acceleration, which can be used to put trouble long behind you rather than leaving you stuck in the middle of it.

The really low powered mopeds cannot manage this, therefore one of the unique abilities of the motorcycle is lost. You are more at the mercy of the traffic around you.

Even modest, mid range commuter motorcycles provide supercar levels of acceleration

This is a thread abotu 125cc vs 50cc scooters!

Anyway, it might be possible to accelerate out of trouble with sufficient power, but I doubt it’s advisable. After this supreme burst of speed you might be doing 100mph without necessarily having been able to assess the road ahead… If you don’t have the ability to accelerate ‘out of danger’ then you learn to brake out of it instead, surely?

I’m deeply sceptical that there’s any safety advantage of extreme power; I think it’s just people trying to justify it.

nmdbases – flow was not right. – go back and read it. Yes I was being argumentative but flow claimed that scooters and mopeds are the same thing, he also said all scooters have samll wheels which is wrong – they are not and made a load of claims about he handling and braking abilities of scooters which are wrong

Molgrips

You obviously have no experience of riding a motorcycle, please shut up and just accept that on a motorcycle there are usually three ways of getting of of trouble:

1 brake
2 swerve (the hardest, as they want to go straight on), and
3 accelerate

And this even applies to mopeds (and also bicycles).

I’m deeply sceptical that there’s any safety advantage of extreme power; I think it’s just people trying to justify it.

Who said anything about ‘extreme’ power? Bikes weigh very little so need little power to accelerate.

br – IMO / IME you can only accelerate out 9f trouble if you have made a mistake already – going for a closing gap is the main way.

Its hard for me to think of anyway acceleration helps unless you have already put yourself in a dodgy position

It’s only 8 miles, swat bicycles are for!

It’s not even that. As per my OP, I normally cycle 8.5 miles e/w to work. But, 2-3 days a month I have to go to London, which means I need to get to the station, 4miles away, instead. I’d love to cycle it, and easily could, but not without getting hot and sweaty. Suits, laptops,presentations, and a couple of steep hills etc.

It’s all on simple, safe, roads that I would not worry about cycling on and regularly do cycle on. I don’t want to become a “biker” and the expense of doing CBT and insuring a big bike are not justified for the usage levels and roads. We have a family car. I passed the car test in 1997, and I’m getting insurance quotes on a 50cc jetforce for about £75/year.

So I’m looking at 50cc scooters/mopeds etc as a “bike alternative”. Someone did helpfully state the Vespa/Piaggio models have a good reliability level, but where would be best to find them under £600? I’ struggling locally and on ebay.

Who said anything about ‘extreme’ power? Bikes weigh very little so need little power to accelerate

Extreme power to weight, I was simply saving typing. I’d have thought that was obvious. Anyway I was talking about vehicles in general not bikes. The laws of physics still apply to bikes just as much as cars, no matter how many bikers are in denial about it.

Agreeing with TJ twice on one thread, and it’s only page 3.

Love my little Sym jet euro x.

58mph,£88 insurance,£16 a year tax!

This is a thread abotu 125cc vs 50cc scooters!

The higher of those two capacities is two and a half times the size of the smaller. That makes a big difference.

Even the best riders and drivers can find themselves in undesirable situations from time to time, due either to their own misjudgement as fallible humans or unexpected changes happening around them due to the fallibility of the other humans sharing the road. The best defensive driving in the world doesn’t make you invincible.

Issues arise. Having the tools to deal with them can make the difference between life and death. I’d rather have them, personally.

Acceleration is different to top speed. Powering out of danger and three digit speedometer readings are not mutually inclusive. It can be as simple and subtle as making sure you stay out of the blind spot of another road user, thus avoiding the potential for trouble further down the road.

It’s about having the flexibility to create safety for yourself. Being the slowest on the road takes away some of that flexibility. And that’s without going into the additional handling and braking capacity that generally increases in line with engine power.

Its hard for me to think of anyway acceleration helps unless you have already put yourself in a dodgy position

TJ – I could probably recite a dozen instances just in the last few months, have you never commuted in a busy urban area?

And tbh this is part of what makes a motorcycle and why we ride them – its ability to get through gaps and make progress when all around are stuck queueing.

50cc scooters are just fine when kept within 30 limits. Once the traffic is travelling faster than the limiter allows they’re not much fun but if your commute is entirely within an urban area then I’d be inclined to ignore all the advice regarding faster options.

molgrips – Member
Anyway, it might be possible to accelerate out of trouble with sufficient power, but I doubt it’s advisable

I’ve ridden motorbikes for 30 years (scarily..).

An example: years ago I was in the local Asda carpark bimbling along the through road on a <I forget what bike>. Suddenly some halfwit in a car appears to my left from one of the parking rows, hasn’t spotted the white lines that signify joining the through road and is about to T bone me. A swift twist of the throttle and I was away out of danger. On a bicycle or in a car (though I’d assume said halfwit may have spotted me then) I’ve have been in trouble.

It is absolutely possible to escape danger using a powered two wheeler’s acceleration.

br – I have ridden hundreds of thousands of miles on motorcycles over decades. I have never “accelerated out of trouble” except out of a closing gap I should never have been in and I cannot think of an instance where it might happen

TJ – nonsense. On the open road I’d probably agree with you, but in town, no.

Sorry – never done it, never seen a place where it would be necessary as I say apart from a closing gap where you should not be. Many years of urban commuting as well.

Just not a part of the way I ride and I ain’t slow.(or didn’t used to be :-))

Well we all have different riding styles, I’m not saying it’s a common occurrence, but in my experience there have been times when I’ve accelerated out of trouble, and doubtless there will be more.

I admit a few of them have been out of situations I should not have put myself in in the first place….

I think thats it Gilo – its the dreaded closing gap – the too quick overtake, the filtering gap that closes – then a burst of power can get you out of the trouble.

apart from a closing gap tho I find it hard to think of another – even the side road one posted above its such a very small time slot that the extra bit of acceleration actually prevents him hitting you when stopping would not

So you agree it does happen, albeit when you (the rider) has maybe made a slight error of judgement? 🙂

Aye – thats what I said in my first post on it

TandemJeremy – Member

br – IMO / IME you can only accelerate out 9f trouble if you have made a mistake already – going for a closing gap is the main way.

Its hard for me to think of anyway acceleration helps unless you have already put yourself in a dodgy position

TJ – I give up, and I don’t know what world you live in, but its nothing like mine – what’s it like to be perfect?

TJ: Ok, so we agree the superior acceleration a two-wheeler has can get you out of trouble.

You feel it’s only when the rider has ballsed-up.

I agree, but believe, and have experienced, there are times when acceleration can save your arse when you have done nothing wrong.

Guess we’ll have to agree to differ

White101 ..just for your info my missus’s honda sfx50 will buzz up any devon hill no problem and probably 2 up !( and it’s not restricted) )

really enjoyed FLOW V TANDEM thanks gents !

with regards to your insurance claim flow I can assure you that if you’d injured / or killed someone and a claim was being made against you your insurers would have been most interested in whether your bike had been modified and not declared because they don’t want to pay out unless they have to!

BR – its simply that I have never been in the situation of acceleration saving me from an accident apart from when I have been going thru a closing gap which is a misjudgement.

Oh I ain’t perfect – despite averaging 75mph on a roads I couldn’t keep up with my mates.

I cannoot even think of a situation where it would be so – perhaps you could enlighten me?

kaiser

really enjoyed FLOW V TANDEM thanks gents !

*takes a bow*

Really TJ coming from one “old man” to another I don’t know how you can be bothered with all these arguments ..I gave up years ago for a quieter life! B####y Funny though!

It can be as simple and subtle as making sure you stay out of the blind spot of another road user

I’m acutely aware of this at all times – perhaps from cycling – and I’ve always found braking to be far more effective at keeping oneself out of a blind spot.

I suspect that having the power on tap tempts one to use it, when braking would do just fine.

Think I’d agree with TJ btw, I can’t think of any time I had to power my way out of a dicey situation where it couldn’t have been avoided in a better way, with a bit more foresight or better action preceeding it. Not to say that I’d consider that to be neccesarily an error, you can’t always act correctly but I reckon that using power to get out of trouble is something I’ve only ever had to do after missing other opportunities to get out of trouble, or not get into trouble.

I spent a long time on a dog-slow 4-stroke 125 and a bit of time on scooters and tbh I never felt that the lack of acceleration was unsafe. Drivers seemed to react badly to the scooter, definately felt looked down on which I never did on the 125 (since it looked like a proper bike)

Drivers seemed to react badly to the scooter

You sure it was a scooter and not a moped ? 😆

Definately a scooter.

What’s a moped? Is it like a scooter?

TJ deliberately winds people up and then reports them to the mods to be banned when they get upset shocker 😯

I have not reported anyone to the mods. I don’t report people for getting cross with me ever.
I only report offensive racist sexist or other ist posts.

Liar, you did the same to me, remember?

I know the truth – you can ask the mods but I do not report people for getting cross with me and I have not reported flow if he got himself banned.
He was however asking for a banning posting far outside the rules and the mods might have seen it – but I did not report him

Edit – I don’t remember reporting you. what for?