Osbourne says no to currency union.

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  • Osbourne says no to currency union.
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    teamhurtmore – Member
    How can you accuse the BBC of being biased??? The Scotsman published research yesterday arguing the they have portrayed the deceitful one as a “figure of fun.” Are they not correct to maintain and uphold their high standards of integrity?…

    The BBC is so badly biased towards the UK side we don’t watch it anymore. It is the British Broadcasting Service after all.

    The Scotsman should be renamed the Anglophile Propagandist. It has not published the truth for quite some time. The Times gives a far better and more balanced view, although it is pro UK.

    irelanst
    Member

    The BBC is so badly biased towards the UK side we don’t watch it anymore. It is the British Broadcasting Service after all.

    That proportional representation isn’t it 😉 , the BBC is representing the views of the 62 million people that haven’t voted for a referendum rather than the 1 million who did.

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    irelanst – Member
    That proportional representation isn’t it , the BBC is representing the views of the 62 million people that haven’t voted for a referendum rather than the 1 million who did.

    🙂

    It’s the BBC Scotland that we no longer believe. We know what to expect from the English Broadcasting Service. 🙂

    Actually it disillusioned me somewhat. When I lived overseas I’d occasionally hear claims that the BBC was just the UK’s propaganda unit rather than an unbiased commentator, but I didn’t believe it.

    Having been on the receiving end of how they are treating the independence debate I have formed the opinion that if Alex Salmond won a billion pounds, it would be reported by the BBC as “Scotland’s First Minister has crushing money problems”, or if they found a photo of him as a babe in a bath with another kid “Salmond revealed to have exposed himself to underage child”.

    I’ve become a fan of Al-Jazeera and other foreign media, because with no irons in the fire, they will give both sides of the issue fairly.

    That’s all we ask, fair reporting.

    piemonster
    Member

    I’ve become a fan of Al-Jazeera and other foreign media, because with no irons in the fire, they will give both sides of the issue fairly.

    Agreed (not necessarily with Al-Jazeera) but the general gist of what your saying.

    There’s some worryingly one side outlets out there. You don’t expect these pro yes sites like WoS or Newsnetscotland to be anything but biased. But the BBC should, in theory be above it.

    athgray
    Member

    ben, you will find it if you click on your own link from page 37. The link titled “other gems from project fear”, takes you straight to WoS where Joan Rivers appears. The particular post should be easy to find as you have posted an image of Joan Rivers there.

    Premier Icon footflaps
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    Is it bias or just a function of the situation? As an independent Scotland is a change from the status quo, you’d expect more questions challenging the change. It seems human nature prefers to challenge change and accept the status quo.

    Premier Icon epicyclo
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    footflaps – Member
    Is it bias or just a function of the situation?…

    I think it’s bias because of the very selective use of only negative facts. It’s so blatant that even some No supporters I know are getting cranky about it – along the lines of “Do they think we’re stupid?”

    (Not that that will change their vote because they’re Tories 🙂 )

    gordimhor
    Member

    I don’t think BBC Scotland is biased but I do believe its coverage has been shoddy. I read about budget cuts and lack of time to make programmes. See Derek Batemans blog. I used to rely on BBC news …no longer.

    Premier Icon aracer
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    Ben Cooper wrote:

    When the mainstream media isn’t being impartial doesn’t agree with you, you have to look to other far more biased sources as well. which do

    Premier Icon epicyclo
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    I don’t think that a part of the media holding an anti-independence editorial line is in itself bias.

    But the selective use of negatives, total omission of positives, and the distortion of what has actually been said is bias.

    bencooper
    Member

    ben, you will find it if you click on your own link from page 37

    Ah, yes – odd it didn’t come up when I searched WoS.

    bencooper » When the mainstream media isn’t being impartial doesn’t agree with you, you have to look to other far more biased sources as well. which do

    Well yes – everyone rads the media that agrees with their own opinions 😉

    There’s another effect to consider when reading the mainstream media about, well, anything – the Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect

    irelanst
    Member

    There’s another effect to consider when reading the mainstream media about, well, anything – the Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect

    Which would be worth taking into account when reading reports which contain simple factual inaccuracies wouldn’t it? Such as “the factual inaccuracies are things like a couple of programmes broadcast a day later than noted in the data, stuff like that.” Wouldn’t considering the Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect make you question whether any of the conclusions of the report were accurate if they couldn’t get the simple facts right?

    bencooper
    Member

    No, because I understand the difference between a small measurement error in one datum of a data set, and a major error in the conclusion of a paper.

    irelanst
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    I think that’s a pretty good example of confirmation bias!

    Premier Icon epicyclo
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    Och, ah’ll let Lady Alba sort it oot…

    [video]http://youtu.be/5SvdecwnYJ4[/video]

    whatnobeer
    Member

    Cracking video that, and a mate of mine is in it/help make it. Good stuff.

    Junkyard
    Member

    Devo max is back on the cards

    Backing the position of Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson, Mr Cameron added: “Giving the Scottish Parliament greater responsibility for raising more of the money it spends – that’s what Ruth believes, and I believe it too.”

    The prime minister said: “Here’s the re-cap. Vote ‘Yes’ – that is total separation.

    “Vote ‘No’ – that can mean further devolution, more power to the Scottish people and their parliament, but with the crucial insurance policy that comes with being part of the UK.”

    Can mean so no actual commitment…Politician being a politician shocker

    whatnobeer
    Member

    Aye, I’d trust him as far as I could throw him.

    athgray
    Member

    Now it has come from the PM, perhaps Scottish government can sit down with UK government to discuss preconditions of devo max to allow it to work.

    I can think of some politicians I could not throw as far as CMD. Dear leader is a bit more portly.

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    They have had plenty time to think of Devo Max.

    If they introduce it before the referendum, then we may actually believe them.

    Now, let’s all go out and watch the pigs fly by…. 🙂

    Premier Icon jambalaya
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    There’s a big difference between between more devolution can be discussed and devo max

    bencooper
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    Beware Tories and their promises:

    Premier Icon jambalaya
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    @ben – was that a broken promise, you have devolution ?

    athgray
    Member

    And I thought Thatcher was dead. Silly me.

    bencooper
    Member

    @ben – was that a broken promise, you have devolution ?

    Thatcher made that pledge in 1979. We got devolution in 1997, courtesy of a Labour government.

    So yes, I’d say that was a broken promise.

    And I thought Thatcher was dead. Silly me.

    Thatcher is dead. Thatcherism is alive and healthier than ever.

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
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    When will CMD grow up,to be a statesman and negotiator? Naive to play this card so early. AS on the rocks and credibility declining every time he opens his mouth. Far better to let him condemn himself daily (irrespective of any poll movement) for now. Poor tactics, poor tactics.

    bencooper
    Member

    Giving the Scottish Parliament greater responsibility for raising more of the money it spends

    Translation: we’re going to keep taking all the oil money, we’re going to give less of it back by getting rid of Barnett, so the Scottish Parliament will control a greater percentage.

    Cameron is a PR man. He’s very, very good at saying the opposite of what people thinks he’s saying.

    bencooper
    Member

    Meanwhile, Theresa May says she’s going to demand passport checks at the border. Yeah, right 😉

    irelanst
    Member

    He’s very, very good at saying the opposite of what people thinks he’s saying

    I’m not sure, I understood “Giving the Scottish Parliament greater responsibility for raising more of the money it spends” to mean Scotland should offset a bit more of it’s deficit by controlling its spending, that’s pretty much what he’s said isn’t it?

    Whereas,”we’re going to keep taking all the oil money, we’re going to give less of it back by getting rid of Barnett” means Scotland will raise exactly the same amount but rely on the Westminster to control, rather than subsidies it’s spending. As someone who’s responsible for the whole of the UK, not just Scotland, that seems fair enough doesn’t it?

    athgray
    Member

    I disagree there THM. The devo max option should be played early and used to maximum effect for the remaining campaign as long as it is sincere and meaningful. This is ground the Yes camp cannot touch and will make them appear negative and bitter. This would be a positive move and I feel in tune with the large majority of Scots.

    Let sites like WoS scare monger about what they think the gutter press is saying to convince Scots to vote No.
    Let them also bring back the evil ghost of Thatcher to scare the young 16 and 17 year olds to vote the correct way.

    bencooper
    Member

    If there was a credible and guaranteed Devo Max offer on the table, I’d quite likely vote No.

    But there isn’t even an offer, and if there was I wouldn’t trust it without primary legislation in place to enforce it.

    irelanst
    Member

    When will CMD grow up,to be a statesman and negotiator?

    I might be reading more into it that I should but I thought it was quite a pithy comment, I took it to mean what I said up there ^ and the later parts to mean vote yes and you’re on your own, vote no and you will have the safety net of the rest of the UK should it all go a bit Greek; you will have more devolved responsibilities but can no longer rely on the rest of the UK to support your policies.

    bencooper
    Member

    can no longer rely on the rest of the UK to support your policies

    The rest of the UK does not “support” Scotland – Scotland pays more into the union than we get back.

    irelanst
    Member

    The rest of the UK does not “support” Scotland – Scotland pays more into the union than we get back.

    According to? GERS says different, HMRC say different.

    bencooper
    Member

    They do? Figures from HMRC:

    http://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/6881

    And GERS says the tax take is £800 per person higher in Scotland.

    Premier Icon jambalaya
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    If there was a credible and guaranteed Devo Max offer on the table, I’d quite likely vote No.

    @ben I think that exactly why Cameron insisted it was a straight yes/no for independence, devo max is actually what the SNP would prefer. I can imagine most Scots would be happy with that, lots of benefits with the UK to pick up the pieces if it all goes horribly wrong.

    Junkyard
    Member

    THM even when having a go at Dave you save the killer thrust for AS 😀
    You really do hate him dont you> I shall stop mentioning it now FWIW.

    Basically he is doing what AS is, promising something he wont deliver on to secure votes. I doubt anyone, on either side believes him , or AS, all that much tbh when they speak.

    I also think it was rather weak to come to scotland, refuse to debate with AS saying it is up to scotland and then doing this …good politics I guess but not admirable.

    irelanst
    Member

    oh come on, that’s the revenue part of the equation, how about the spending? You know, the £12,300 per person that Scotland spends vs the UK spend 0f £11000.

    Premier Icon jambalaya
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    And GERS says the tax take is £800 per person higher in Scotland.

    @Ben posted a while back a link from hmrc which shows that the England pays more tax per head, it depends on how the oil taxes are allocated. It makes no sense to me how Scots could pay more per head based on the economy there.

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