EU law overrules UK law too

Nope we can leave and they cannot stop that Parliament is sovereign.
Its rules may over rule our rules but only because we agreed to play by their rules. We can withdraw this consent and they can do nothing about this.

I liked this from the sctosman – its dangerously on topic so forgive me

In England and Wales, 38 per cent of those questioned said if Scotland left the UK it should “definitely be allowed” to continue to use the pound, while 31 per cent believed it should “probably be allowed” to do so.

So rUK want them to have the pound as well.
AS has been correct all along they will share the asset 😛

continue to use

Which is of course not the same as currency union …

Nope we can leave and they cannot stop that Parliament is sovereign.
Its rules may over rule our rules but only because we agreed to play by their rules. We can withdraw this consent and they can do nothing about this.

Which is exactly the same position as iS or will be if/when they join the EU. My point was that the iS constitution was being criticized above for placing EU law above iS, what I was saying is that just the same position as the UK is in now and will be post independence.

y point was that the iS constitution was being criticized above for placing EU law above iS, what I was saying is that just the same position as the UK is in now and will be post independence.

No, its not

EU law does not overrule UK constitutional law

http://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2014/01/23/mark-elliot-reflections-on-the-hs2-case-a-hierarchy-of-domestic-constitutional-norms-and-the-qualified-primacy-of-eu-law/

Under the Scottish Constitution, EU law overrides all.

I liked this from the sctosman – its dangerously on topic so forgive me

In England and Wales, 38 per cent of those questioned said if Scotland left the UK it should “definitely be allowed” to continue to use the pound, while 31 per cent believed it should “probably be allowed” to do so.

So rUK want them to have the pound as well.
AS has been correct all along they will share the asset

Junkyard your figures are out of date. The article states that the survey was from 2013. This article LINK shows that 53% of people in the rest of the UK are against a currency union and the data is from a poll in April 2014.
So AS is still wrong about a currency union and nats such as yourself should check your facts.

Is Junkyard a nat? I thought he was equally pointing out political fibbing on both sides 😉

He needs to come out of the closet Ben.

EU law does not overrule UK constitutional law

@ninfan in practice it does independent of the argument made in your link.

Here’s one from the party everyone loves to hate, 75% they say …

Laws made in Brussels

The fact that the majority of Scots surveyed indicated a preference for keeping the £, is clear testament to what the answer to poll should be. To argue in the way that AS does, is counter-intuitive as well as poorly targeted.

I thought he was equally pointing out political fibbing on both sides

Yet more of the nationalist lies 😉

we did the 75% and the UK H of C report clearly states that figure is incorrect and gives a range 55% was the upper limit iirc.

Also Radio 4 More or Less did it as well and she is at best confusing in what she means.

It is amusing how UKIP hate the EU but are happy to usean unlected beuricrat as an authority when it agrees with them and ignore the sovereign and elected UK parliament report which disagrees with them

Bloody foreigners coming over here stealing making up our stats eh

THM AS is trying to win votes not loose them. If this is his goal then his approach is the correct one. He is not the first nor the last politician to fib in the campaign.

Moving slightly along, I always thought that a constitution was about fundamentals, e.g. right to life, right to a fair trial, etc. I don’t see a right to a free university education or no to nuclear as fundamentals. They are political arguments and the attempt to drive them through is an attempt by the current Scottish Government to set limit what future governments want to do. Look at the ECHR (convention not court) as to human rights.

Moving slightly along, I always thought that a constitution was about fundamentals

But that view is, in itself, a political position. Some people want a bells-and-whistles constitution, some do not. That’s why there’s a consultation on it.

But we’d still be able to alter the constitution later and change that if we wanted. So the Scottish parliament would still remain supreme.

It depends how the Constitution is amendable.

I thought this thread had died a happy death

You love it….

It was merely resting. I get bored of it from time to time but I’m always back for more !

Scottish voters – so what about the Yes campaign / constitution saying you’ll keep the Queen ? I thought you’d be dead against that and turn Balmoral into something more egalitarian, right to roam and all that ?

Another one for Ben

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/17/china-li-keqiang-scottish-independence

Would the Queen be expected to spend her time in Scotland vs rUK based on population ratios, GDP or contribution to the royal purse?

Would the Queen be expected to spend her time in Scotland vs rUK based on population ratios, GDP or contribution to the royal purse?

I know it’s a ‘shopped up picture but I still chuckled,

Scottish voters – so what about the Yes campaign / constitution saying you’ll keep the Queen ? I thought you’d be dead against that and turn Balmoral into something more egalitarian, right to roam and all that ?

Personally I’m a republican so I’d be happy to get rid of them. However we’d probably end up like Canada, New Zealand, Australia or any other Commonwealth country that still has the queen as nominal head of state.

Would the Queen be expected to spend her time in Scotland vs rUK based on population ratios, GDP or contribution to the royal purse?

Dunno, how does it work with Commonwealth countries? Though since she owns Balmoral she’s probably likely to visit more frequently.

Another one for Ben

Ironic, isn’t it, just after the 25th anniversary of Tiananmen Square – he’s the last person I’d ask about how to run a democracy.

Still add the Chinese and the Pope to the list of united parties Ben.

Some talent that wee eck has after all. He can follow T Bliar into a global role of conciliation after Nicola has grabbed power in 90 odd days or so!

he’s the last person I’d ask about how to run a democracy.

I think you’ll find that when Mr Li said that he’d like to see a “united United Kingdom” that he wasn’t offering advice on how to run a democracy but offering a business proposition.

I’m sure that Mr Li couldn’t give a monkeys if the UK disintegrates as long as it doesn’t effect business between China and what is at the moment the UK.

Now of course an independent Scotland could tell the Chinese to go and poke their business, reminding them about Tiananmen Square and informing them that an independent Scotland doesn’t need them,
but good luck with that.

So the Chinese leader is not a fan of letting people decide whether to be independent. What a real revelation that is.
Lets be honest who would not want to be using the Chinese as evidence of the merits of their argument?
Now what does Kim Jong Un think ?

Dont worry Ben you get the Dalai Lama as a spiritual leader and he is way cooler than the Pope

Still add the Chinese and the Pope to the list of united parties Ben.

That’ll be the list entitled “People who’s opinion I couldn’t care less about regarding the referendum”

The referendum is about the people who live in Scotland. It’s a decision for us.

I think you’ll find that when Mr Li said that he’d like to see a “united United Kingdom” that he wasn’t offering advice on how to run a democracy but offering a business proposition.

We’re not a business to be bought or sold.

😆 I wonder how much say you’ll get.

Hmm, I reckon he might have been the first and I certainly wouldn’t put it past him to be the last 😉

Ooh, am I on that list? 😛

Though I reckon Mr Li is just worried that an independent Scotland might give Tibet ideas.

I wonder how much say you’ll get

How much do we have now?

Though I reckon Mr Li is just worried that an independent Scotland might give Tibet ideas.

Bingo.

aracer, drawing a loose comparison between Scotland and Tibet will only ecourage more fanciful notions in the heads of those that peddle the subjugation of a nation nonsense. Will be hearing of human right abuses on the streets of Inverness next.

See what I mean aracer. Happily I have not seen any self immolations on my travels around Scotland yet.

bencooper – Member

How much do we have now?

Way more than a country that isn’t a member state of the EU! 😀

About as much as you’ll have as iS, so admittedly not a lot.

So the Chinese leader is not a fan of letting people decide whether to be independent.

Well I think everybody apart from you already knew that JY. What appears to be news is that China, according to Mr Li, would rather deal with a “united United Kingdom”, despite Ben heroically announcing “We’re not a business to be bought or sold”. Although unfortunately I fear that Ben won’t be Scotland’s Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade.

Scotland has a share of the UK rebate negotiated in the 80’s. A rebate that Scotland wishes to retain, however there is no reasonable argument to suggest the rebate should still stand, however the UK has some clout in seeking to retain it. iS would not have such clout.
Could it be argued that Scotlands higher level of GDP from agriculture over rUK actually prevented the UK receiving a higher level of rebate?

aracer, drawing a loose comparison between Scotland and Tibet will only ecourage more fanciful notions in the heads of those that peddle the subjugation of a nation nonsense

Nonsense, I’m sure the Tibetans are keenly following the Scottish independence debate and its outcome to decide whether they should demand independence from China.

Presumably if Scotland fails to vote for independence the Tibetans will give up all simular ambitions and the Chinese will breathe a huge sigh of relief.

I’m sure Alex Salmonmd is a bit like Nelson Mandela when it comes to giving inspiration to oppressed peoples throughout the world.

I wonder whether Tibet will be seeking a post-independence currency union with China?

Will Scotland enter into a currency union with Free Tibet?

Though I reckon Mr Li is just worried that an independent Scotland might give Tibet ideas.

I doubt he is that worried – China will do what it always does with new small UN members and just buy their vote.

We in iYorkshire will not be bought be China. We’ll be happy to trade we em though but they’ll need to be bloody cheap. We’ll not be ripped off y knows. Our share of EU rebate should come in handy, reckon itud not be wasted on rebuild the Barnsley Bitter brewery. If there’s going to be a free Tibet then were havin some of that.

Well I think everybody apart from you already knew that JY.

Oh my aching sides ernie. Having china on your side is unlikely to make you correct in a democratic exercise. Were it any other issue none of you, IMHO, would be jumping around excitedly going oh look I mist be correct as China agree with me,
Few Scottish voters are going to be influenced by the views of the Chinese.

drawing a loose comparison between Scotland and Tibet

I dont think anyone is they are merely suggesting that the leaders view may have more to do with his own domestic matters than any view on the UK union.

Few Scottish voters are going to be influenced by the views of the Chinese.

I think the reality is, that almost nobody in China (including the leadership) really gives a **** about Scottish Independence either.

I’m curious as to what the more hard line yes voters amongst us(you know who you are) are thinking of the increase in chatter about Devo +

I’m guessing “we’ve heard this before, and we don’t trust it to happen, and it’s not what we want” to varying degrees?

MY view on devo max – though I doubt I count as hardcore* – is that it will likely be given in order to put the issue to bed once and for all and to get the SNP to shut the **** up. However the vote goes a large number of the population wants to leave the union/more freedom so they will probably attempt to appease them.

Anything else and we will have this rumbling on for another generation and another vote in 1035 ish

I guess the SNP will accept is as a slow drift to their goal.

* my view remains I would vote for almost anything that ensured I never got a Tory govt tbh. I am not a fan of any form of nationalism.

JY it is of course possible an independent Scotland could have a right wing government. If the country becomes as wealthy as AS/SNP claim that’s likely. The Tories are seen as the rich southern English by many. Once you strip that out it seems very possible the Scots could elect a centre-right government.